Negotiating in good faith? APFA Hotline March 3

[strikeforce]

Wrong again.

The judge only rules on the motions put forth to the court. AA has all ready filed a Section 1113 motion with the court. If both parties fail to reach an agreement a hearing will be scheduled and more than likely your CBA will be abrogated.

The unions basically dont have any power in this situation.


And to John John, are you going to ignore the facts and questions asked?

Oh wait, you cant find a CWA cheer leading script to copy and paste?

if the bootlicking union's actually did their job and present a real threat (threatening to strike) to the airlines, like the IAM at EA did, maybe management might think twice before actually stepping foot in front of the judge.

Take a strike vote and present those results to the judge......and then let him rule while WE walk out!

 

[700UW]

Eastern wasnt in Chapter 11 when the IAM walked out, and ALPA and the TWU all supported the IAM strike.

What dont you understand the law prevents self-help upon a CBA abrogation?

A strike vote has nothing to do with Section 1113 negotiations, why dont you take the time to educate yourself, a little knowledge goes a long way.

Your comparing apples to oranges and things that have no bearing on how the judge will rule on the motion before him.

 

[Buck]

Wrong again.

The judge only rules on the motions put forth to the court. AA has all ready filed a Section 1113 motion with the court. If both parties fail to reach an agreement a hearing will be scheduled and more than likely your CBA will be abrogated.

The unions basically dont have any power in this situation.




And to John John, are you going to ignore the facts and questions asked?

Oh wait, you cant find a CWA cheer leading script to copy and paste?

Of course the judge only rules on something if it is before him.

I think I said the same thing.

As for union power you must be talking about your airline union. Because the TWU is going to give the company and the judge one chance to comply, then strength in numbers, will strike if provoked, a loaf of bread and Occupy Courtroom it is.

 

[700UW]

Have fun at the unemployment office if you really think that is going to happen.

Change your screen name to Ostrich.

 

[Buck]

Waaaaaaah!!!

 

[eolesen]

Wage concessions taboo? With the Twu? Surely, your not serious. Started the first "B" scale in 1983, started the SRP program in 1995 where the mechanic starting wage was brought down to about $7.00 hr? That's just scratching the surface. You must be talking about the APFA or the APA maybe, not the low wage concession leader, the Twu.

How many TWU employees ON PAYROLL took a pay cut in 1983?

How many AA employees ON PAYROLL took an involuntary pay cut prior to the 2003 RPA?

I'll give you the answer to both questions: NONE.

AA had never once asked existing employees to take a pay cut. Cutting the starting wages for NEW HIRES is not a pay cut, no matter how you want to spin it.

So I would strongly disagree with your assessment. AA management has done nothing by lie and stonewall for years, so "engaging senior management" is nothing but a waste of time. Just like what is currently occurring in bankruptcy NON-negotiations with it's "cost unit" union representatives,

Ok, let that AA consultant spin fly.....

You might want to try and pull your head out of your arse long enough to actually read before commenting next time, Skippy.

You've made the argument entirely about your tale of woe (a typical response on these forums, I might add).

My assessment was referring entirely to why WN works as they have to date, and why it shouldn't be a given that they'd continue to work that way.

 

[strikeforce]

Eastern wasnt in Chapter 11 when the IAM walked out, and ALPA and the TWU all supported the IAM strike.

What dont you understand the law prevents self-help upon a CBA abrogation?

A strike vote has nothing to do with Section 1113 negotiations, why dont you take the time to educate yourself, a little knowledge goes a long way.

Your comparing apples to oranges and things that have no bearing on how the judge will rule on the motion before him.

I have educated myself regarding the right to strike an airline during BK. And, you're WRONG! In 2006, Judge Victor Merrero decided he was king faruch and granted himself powers only the U.S. President has during an airline strike, and ordered the AFA back to work. So, there really isn't a law preventing strikes in BK outside of the RLA. The RLA overrules the BK process, and if the NMB would do their job and declare an impasse once AA files it's motion to abrogate the CBA's, the stage would be set to strike at AA......that's unless President Obama intervenes and creates a PEB.

The RLA trumps the BK process....however you want to spin it, you're wrong!

And, let me just add about the collusion between NWA, President Bush, and gov't entities in working together to undermine the efforts by AMFA to shutdown NWA. I suspect the only reason Bush didn't intervene and send the mechanics back to work was the fact that NWA got enough scabs to replace the mechanics, and most likely told Bush to stay out of it.
I tend to believe that the only alternative to striking an airline would be to QUIT WITHOUT NOTICE. That's the only way around the RLA. And, it's only a matter of time before airline workers say enough is enough, and just QUIT! Especially when your hands are tied behind your back and someone named Lorenzo, Tilton, Icahn, and now Horton keeps jabbing a rod up your arse!

 

[johnny kat]

Wow, I bet the managements at DL and US are salavating at the propect of a strike at AA. Maybe both airlines will get what they want without the hassle of merging.

 

[700UW]

The RLA doesnt over rule bankruptcy, go ask Sharon Levine, I was on the M&R Negotiating Committee, she was our counsel.

You have no clue on what your talking about, I have provided cases, you have provided nothing.

And Section 1113 negotiations are not Section 6 Negotiations, and at NW they were not on strike, therefore there was no Presidential intervention as the courts blocked a strike before it could ever happen. And the appellate court upheld the injunction, so try again.

And if the RLA over rides Bankruptcy laws, then how were the NW CBA and the IAM CBA at US abrogated?

So explain how the abrogation occured if the RLA trumps Section 1113?

You will see if the TWU doesnt reach an agreement, let me know how that strike works out for you.

 

[TWU informer]

The RLA doesnt over rule bankruptcy, go ask Sharon Levine, I was on the M&R Negotiating Committee, she was our counsel.

You have no clue on what your talking about, I have provided cases, you have provided nothing.

And Section 1113 negotiations are not Section 6 Negotiations, and at NW they were not on strike, therefore there was no Presidential intervention as the courts blocked a strike before it could ever happen. And the appellate court upheld the injunction, so try again.

And if the RLA over rides Bankruptcy laws, then how were the NW CBA and the IAM CBA at US abrogated?

So explain how the abrogation occured if the RLA trumps Section 1113?

You will see if the TWU doesnt reach an agreement, let me know how that strike works out for you.

No matter what your counsel's opinion is or has been, no matter who potentially violates, until the Supreme Court hears the arguements and decides the case and issues within the disagreemet, everything is just opinions and could be proven incorrrect. And based on this fact, and in spite of your claims to being all knowing, you could also be wrong on many issues.

 

[Hackman]

How many TWU employees ON PAYROLL took a pay cut in 1983?

How many AA employees ON PAYROLL took an involuntary pay cut prior to the 2003 RPA?

I'll give you the answer to both questions: NONE.

AA had never once asked existing employees to take a pay cut. Cutting the starting wages for NEW HIRES is not a pay cut, no matter how you want to spin it.



You might want to try and pull your head out of your arse long enough to actually read before commenting next time, Skippy.

You've made the argument entirely about your tale of woe (a typical response on these forums, I might add).

My assessment was referring entirely to why WN works as they have to date, and why it shouldn't be a given that they'd continue to work that way.

I see, only a "wage reduction" is a pay cut, nothing else. AA loves that one.

I consider concessions like Flex Benefits (started in 1990?, years before any other airline paid for medical, I believe) a real pay cut. A very big one at that, one AA management has increased by what, 400% or more over the years? Again, the first airline to start the medical raping, 1990. A very large payroll deduction for anyone with a family.

I consider a concession like medical Pre-funding (1995?)a real pay cut. A $7.00 month payroll deduction is required.

I consider a concession like Long Term Disability (LTD) conveniently taken over by the Twu a pay cut, no longer covered by the benevolent AA, a pay roll deduction is required.

The omnipotent live-in BB consultAAnt will decide what is... and what is not...a wage cut. Got it.

It's not my tale of woe here....... it's AA managements' sorry legacy of years of employee relations FAILURES. Worse now as ever. A very good reason why there is a very real chance of AA being wiped off the runway for good if your Centrepork buddies continue to stonewall. I know, it's just bluster....nothing to see here. Right? Just keep thinking that.

WN might not continue on the mostly excellent employee relations path their on,very true. However, WN sure as HELL has a long way to fall to sink down to the level of dysfunction that exists at AA currently. To state that there has not been any meaningful attempts by the AA work groups to communicate with upper management is false. The attempts all just simply fail.

Your truly a AA management trained robot, I must say.

I don't think your head fits up your arse, you must have lots of help.

 

[Buck]

One thing that is for sure. If the planned reduction at TUL for aircraft maintenance goes with the term sheet, there will be more than a 40% outsource. Anyone who has to move to a Class I station due to the closure or quit, move to TUL or quit, retire or quit will see the demise of the companies fleet. Of course if that happens then so goes the APFA and APA.

TUL is having some issues with meeting the maintenance schedule and yields are tight. The RIF will only continue to result in poor quality of maintenance. But that is what the company will refer to as a learning curve.

 

[john john]

Were you at CCY?

Were you on the CWA negotiating committee?

I was at CCY, we met the your committee numerous times, your stike vote did nothing, your union met the ask and thats all the company wanted.

Ask PIT res, ask baggage service and FF workers who's jobs went to the Philippines and El Salvador how it worked out for them?

How is the pension?

Oh wait, you dont have one and couldnt achieve one.

How did the post merger negotiations go?

Wait, the IBT and CWA caved as US wanted a vote and your union was scared.

How many jobs were lost and how many came back?

The IAM has a pension, and now 50% of overhaul has to be done inhouse, so the IAM has gained, and you havent.

All ready in negotiations for a second post merger CBA, got the holidays and sick time back.

Your still working under your Chapter 11 CBA.

Glad to see you cant address the legal issues and facts I have posted and you still post the CWA cheer leading scripts.

“And once again you post something that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.”
“Can’t answer or keep it on topic?”
CWA was successful in negotiating improvements to the company’s bankrupisty demands.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041030113039/www.cwa.net/PDFs/Management10-22-04proposal.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/20041013063944/www.cwa.net/PDFs/ManagementProposal.pdf

The passenger service agents contract is industry standard much better then company’s original bankrupisty demands…post bankrupisty CWA negotiated snapbacks to pre bankrupisty contract. Something AA union employees need to explore

But in reality the company barley moved the judge abrogated our CBA. To keep labor peace he wanted us to vote on it and have the members decide before he would enact the order.

 

[TWU informer]

What is "bankrupisty"?

Does not compute?

 

[john john]

What is "bankrupisty"?

Does not compute?

bankruptcy
Kept to form
I was called out so I’m staying with it