Pension Freeze Proposal From AA

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- I assume y'all know what a "freeze" means?------- If you have 10 years vested in the plan, it stays at that from the day it's ratified forward!---- And my thanks to the TWU, for protecting my TWA pension, and all those who receive checks from the P.B.G.C. They could ill afford to take on the pensions of another failed Airline!

 

[Ed Norton]

Yes, however historically it is referred to as Totally Worthless Union.

Hissssss, hissssss, hisssss...........

 

[Birdman]

A Bob Owens post from 2004:

2-1/2% of compensation paid to a participant by the union in the last twelve months of service for each year of benifit Service up to 20 years, plus 1-1/2% of such compensation for each year of Benifit service in excess of 20 years.

Late(as with Sonny Hall)
Determined in accordance with the above frmula, based on Benifit Service and compensation at late retirement date.

So Sonny Halls pension is based upon over $200,000/year

So .025 x $210000=5250 x 20=105,000 + (3150 x 20=63000*)=$168,000

So Sonny Hall is looking at around $168,000 a year now.

Next year he gets a 5% raise, $8400 , $ 176400 for 2005
2006= $185220
2007= $194481
2008= $204420
2009=$214630

I'm just not buying that AA will supplement Jim Little's generous union pension based on his $280,000 union wages. Perhaps Bob can explain how international officers who were former AA employee's pensions are handled.

 

[rifbound]

I am NOT OK w taking in the shorts re the rest of the TS to save/freeze pension...Im not willing to work under conditions remotely set forth in the TS just to "save" pensions..I would rather see value built back into the agreement...If it comes to a vote and is set forth as such I will vote NO..and advocate others I know to do the same....

X2

 

[rifbound]

We, as twu union brothers, must" Fight Like Hell "to save our international's pensions! They may not work under the same contracts they sell out, but they are "OUR" leadership and deserve the respect of their members. I say, WE draw some lines in the sand, connect those lines, and have one single line that stretches from coast to show our UNITY.

LMFAO!! TWU union brothers and unity do not go together in anything! Not since my soon to be short 15 years here. More like TWU ME mentality.

 

[Duke787]

LMFAO!! TWU union brothers and unity do not go together in anything! Not since my soon to be short 15 years here. More like TWU ME mentality.

"If you don't like it, move to Tulsa"

 

[strikeforce]

A Bob Owens post from 2004:

2-1/2% of compensation paid to a participant by the union in the last twelve months of service for each year of benifit Service up to 20 years, plus 1-1/2% of such compensation for each year of Benifit service in excess of 20 years.

Late(as with Sonny Hall)
Determined in accordance with the above frmula, based on Benifit Service and compensation at late retirement date.

So Sonny Halls pension is based upon over $200,000/year

So .025 x $210000=5250 x 20=105,000 + (3150 x 20=63000*)=$168,000

So Sonny Hall is looking at around $168,000 a year now.

Next year he gets a 5% raise, $8400 , $ 176400 for 2005
2006= $185220
2007= $194481
2008= $204420
2009=$214630

I'm just not buying that AA will supplement Jim Little's generous union pension based on his $280,000 union wages. Perhaps Bob can explain how international officers who were former AA employee's pensions are handled.

One dollar for you, and Two dollars for me........any questions???

I can hear the TWU champagne corks popping right now! Thanks Jim, for saving your pension!

 

[1AA]

AMR's American will freeze pensions, not kill them
American Airlines to freeze pensions instead of terminating them in bankruptcy plan changes
Associated PressBy David Koenig, AP Airlines Writer | Associated Press – 10 hours ago

DALLAS (AP) -- American Airlines will freeze pensions for most workers and back away from a threat to terminate the plans, as the company tries to cut costs while in bankruptcy protection.


"Clip from the article"

James Little, the president of the Transport Workers Union, which represents mechanics and baggage handlers, said that American also dropped a demand for an additional $600 million to $800 million in annual labor-cost concessions from employees — the amount that American hoped to save by terminating the pensions.

American is negotiating with TWU and unions for pilots and flight attendants over pay cuts and contract changes that it claims would save $1.25 billion per year. If the company can't agree with the unions, it can ask the bankruptcy judge in New York to impose its terms on workers.


More paycuts? Which work group? Did we not give enough in 2003? Paycuts to save jobs? Did not work in 2003. Lesson to be learned. Is this what Jim Little refers to "Fighting like Hell"?

 

[jimntx]

<_< ------- I assume y'all know what a "freeze" means?------- If you have 10 years vested in the plan, it stays at that from the day it's ratified forward!

We don't know that yet. The problem with agreeing to a freeze is we have to know what the company's definition of a freeze is before we can vote one way or another. There is no set definition of a freeze.

In the past at other companies a "freeze" has taken on different characteristics. One company's freeze simply meant that enrollment was frozen; so, only employees already in the plan would benefit. Another was as you said, benefits frozen as if the day of ratification was the day you retired. Benefit accrual stopped on that date. Another company's freeze allowed for increases in future benefit with increases in pay rate, but that's all--no further credit for years of service.

It's not going to affect me one way or another. I won't live long enough to draw a decent pension from AMR. However, people with years until retirement should be very careful. The terms of the freeze should include a prohibition against the company terminating the plan at a later date, and a big chunk of change put into the plans now to insure that there won't be any more games with underfunding the plans--such as the $6.5 million payment in January when a $100 million payment was due.

 

[strikeforce]

AMR's American will freeze pensions, not kill them
American Airlines to freeze pensions instead of terminating them in bankruptcy plan changes
Associated PressBy David Koenig, AP Airlines Writer | Associated Press – 10 hours ago

DALLAS (AP) -- American Airlines will freeze pensions for most workers and back away from a threat to terminate the plans, as the company tries to cut costs while in bankruptcy protection.


"Clip from the article"

James Little, the president of the Transport Workers Union, which represents mechanics and baggage handlers, said that American also dropped a demand for an additional $600 million to $800 million in annual labor-cost concessions from employees — the amount that American hoped to save by terminating the pensions.

American is negotiating with TWU and unions for pilots and flight attendants over pay cuts and contract changes that it claims would save $1.25 billion per year. If the company can't agree with the unions, it can ask the bankruptcy judge in New York to impose its terms on workers.


More paycuts? Which work group? Did we not give enough in 2003? Paycuts to save jobs? Did not work in 2003. Lesson to be learned. Is this what Jim Little refers to "Fighting like Hell"?

You have to read Brundage's letter carefully and between the lines.......

The company will seek additional capital to fund the pensions.......and WHO do you suppose will fund this additional obligation (debt) that a company in BK will take on when it's trying to slash costs........ME and YOU! I wouldn't be celebrating too soon. I'm 46 and right NOW, I need cash in my pocket to fund my kids college tuition......the hell with my pension. So, this freeze is a non-issue for me, but an additional pay cut, NO WAY!

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think it's probably safe to assume that the "hard freeze" means that benefit accrual stops on the freeze date (if not the filing bankruptcy date) and those not vested on that date miss out completely. The best option now is to get the best DC plan you can.

Jim

 

[Bogey]

You have to read Brundage's letter carefully and between the lines.......

The company will seek additional capital to fund the pensions.......and WHO do you suppose will fund this additional obligation (debt) that a company in BK will take on when it's trying to slash costs........ME and YOU! I wouldn't be celebrating too soon. I'm 46 and right NOW, I need cash in my pocket to fund my kids college tuition......the hell with my pension. So, this freeze is a non-issue for me, but an additional pay cut, NO WAY!

The funding will come in the way of exit financing. My guess is that financing will come from a 3rd party who has a vested interest in AA coming out the backside as a stand alone. I believe that 3rd party is BA.

The company will not add that 600-800 million to the term sheet.

 

[FWAAA]

The APFA and TWU have both publicly posted that the DB plans for their workgroups are nearly fully funded. It's no surprise that the one plan AA has not offered to freeze is the one plan that is probably very underfunded - the plan for the APA pilots. Freezing the APFA and TWU plans probably won't cost AA all that much money unless investment returns are at historic lows for the next decade or two. Terminating the APFA and TWU plans wouldn't make a difference to the benefit checks for most APFA or TWU members but would shift the risk of substandard investment returns to the PBGC. Additionally, AA initially proposed terminating all plans so as to not look like it was favoring the APFA and TWU but punishing the pilots.

I suspect that the APFA and TWU will not reach a consensual agreement on concessions and thus, AA will seek and will get a distress termination of all four plans (APFA, TWU, APA and management/agent/support staff).

 

[Buck]

One dollar for you, and Two dollars for me........any questions???

I can hear the TWU champagne corks popping right now! Thanks Jim, for saving your pension!

And I hear the champagne corks popping at headquarters of AMR. We got them arguing among themselves.

 

[Buck]

AMR's American will freeze pensions, not kill them
American Airlines to freeze pensions instead of terminating them in bankruptcy plan changes
Associated PressBy David Koenig, AP Airlines Writer | Associated Press – 10 hours ago

DALLAS (AP) -- American Airlines will freeze pensions for most workers and back away from a threat to terminate the plans, as the company tries to cut costs while in bankruptcy protection.


"Clip from the article"

James Little, the president of the Transport Workers Union, which represents mechanics and baggage handlers, said that American also dropped a demand for an additional $600 million to $800 million in annual labor-cost concessions from employees — the amount that American hoped to save by terminating the pensions.

American is negotiating with TWU and unions for pilots and flight attendants over pay cuts and contract changes that it claims would save $1.25 billion per year. If the company can't agree with the unions, it can ask the bankruptcy judge in New York to impose its terms on workers.


More paycuts? Which work group? Did we not give enough in 2003? Paycuts to save jobs? Did not work in 2003. Lesson to be learned. Is this what Jim Little refers to "Fighting like Hell"?

Which work group it would appear that Fleet Service and Facilities are taking the biggest hit? But the wait there is still time for the TWU to negotiate.