Kerry And Usairways

[Kev3188]

Bob--

Not my place to get into anyone's Vietnam activity (born in '75...), but otherwise I agree with you completely. The fact remains he advocated (or at least was ambivalent towards) USair-and thousands of jobs-going away. Why in the world the IAM would endorse him after that is beyond me. I hate to think that my dues could be going toward his campaign.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bob,

Don't know what the law is called but you still have to pay an equal amount even if you don't belong to the union. Supreme Court case I think.

As far as politicians, I've decided both parties are pretty much the same. They all take money from whoever will give it to them (Dems get most of the union money, Repubs get more business money) and the only one they're really looking out for is themselves. I doubt if any of them aside from PA & NC care a whit about what happens to U.

Jim

 

[B6Busdriver]

You actually have the Nerve to Say that about All DEM'S ????

Which President is it that is Not able to Spell, Count, Add, Subtract Run A COUNTRY ETC ??????

Well Ole George had better grades and SAT scores than Algore. Poor Al.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Speaking of Al....

After the super bowl -

Bush called the Patriots and congratulated them on the win.

Gore called the Panthers and told them they'd been robbed.

Clinton called Janet Jackson.

Jim

 

[Kev3188]

"Clinton called Janet Jackson."

Jim

______________________

 

[A10Pilot]

WAKE UP and do a little research before you make a fool of yourself. :down:

A10Pilot
Proudly served in Iraq as an activated Reservist... awaiting my return to airline flying. B)

As I did, as well. But I served MANY years on active duty also. My daddy didn't get me a job in the ANG to avoid the draft. YOU NEED TO DO YOU"RE HOMEWORK, LEST YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL, MY FRIEND! [/quote]
What in the world are you talking about????

- I served 14 years Active Duty (including combat flying during Desert Storm) before entering the Reserves. So, you served 'MANY' years ... what has that to do with your ignorant statement about AWOL?

I have done my homework. (BTW, the possesive 'your' is not spelled you"re. That is the contraction of you and are, and even then, you use an apostrophe and not a quotation mark.)

The point is that you are spewing rediculous claims about being AWOL. Snide remarks about "daddy getting you out of the draft" make you look juvenile and petty. Members of the Guard and Reserve proudly serve this nation - despite the vitriolic rhetoric from people like you.

Read a letter from one who was there and stop slopping up all that left-wing garbage from people like Moore...

***********************************
'Bush and I were lieutenants'

George Bush and I were lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS), Texas Air National Guard (ANG) from 1970 to 1971. We had the same flight and squadron commanders (Maj. William Harris and Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, both now deceased). While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base, we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch.
It is quite frustrating to hear the daily cacophony from the left and Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, et al., about Lt. Bush escaping his military responsibilities by hiding in the Texas ANG. In the Air Guard during the Vietnam War, you were always subject to call-up, as many Air National Guardsmen are finding out today. If the 111th FIS and Lt. Bush did not go to Vietnam, blame President Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara, not lowly Lt. Bush. They deliberately avoided use of the Guard and Reserves for domestic political calculations, knowing that a draftee only stirred up the concerns of one family, while a call-up got a whole community's attention.
The mission of the 147th Fighter Group and its subordinate 111th FIS, Texas ANG, and the airplane it possessed, the F-102, was air defense. It was focused on defending the continental United States from Soviet nuclear bombers. The F-102 could not drop bombs and would have been useless in Vietnam. A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert) was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.
If you check the 111th FIS records of 1970-72 and any other ANG squadron, you will find other pilots excused for career obligations and conflicts. The Bush excusal in 1972 was further facilitated by a change in the unit's mission, from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101, which required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time traditional reservists with outside employment.
The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous. There was a huge glut of pilots in the Air Force in 1972, and with no cockpits available to put them in, many were shoved into nonflying desk jobs. Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore.
Sadly, few of today's partisan pundits know anything about the environment of service in the Reserves in the 1970s. The image of a reservist at that time is of one who joined, went off for six months' basic training, then came back and drilled weekly or monthly at home, with two weeks of "summer camp." With the knowledge that Mr. Johnson and Mr. McNamara were not going to call out the Reserves, it did become a place of refuge for many wanting to avoid Vietnam.
There was one big exception to this abusive use of the Guard to avoid the draft, and that was for those who wanted to fly, as pilots or crew members. Because of the training required, signing up for this duty meant up to 2½ years of active duty for training alone, plus a high probability of mobilization. A fighter-pilot candidate selected by the Guard (such as Lt. Bush and me) would be spending the next two years on active duty going through basic training (six weeks), flight training (one year), survival training (two weeks) and combat crew training for his aircraft (six to nine months), followed by local checkout (up to three more months) before he was even deemed combat-ready. Because the draft was just two years, you sure weren't getting out of duty being an Air Guard pilot. If the unit to which you were going back was an F-100, you were mobilized for Vietnam. Avoiding service? Yeah, tell that to those guys.
The Bush critics do not comprehend the dangers of fighter aviation at any time or place, in Vietnam or at home, when they say other such pilots were risking their lives or even dying while Lt. Bush was in Texas. Our Texas ANG unit lost several planes right there in Houston during Lt. Bush's tenure, with fatalities. Just strapping on one of those obsolescing F-102s was risking one's life.
Critics such as Mr. Kerry (who served in Vietnam, you know), Terry McAuliffe and Michael Moore (neither of whom served anywhere) say Lt. Bush abandoned his assignment as a jet fighter pilot without explanation or authorization and was AWOL from the Alabama Air Guard.
Well, as for abandoning his assignment, this is untrue. Lt. Bush was excused for a period to take employment in Florida for a congressman and later in Alabama for a Senate campaign.
Excusals for employment were common then and are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions, and most commanders (as I later was) are flexible in letting their charges take care of career affairs until they return or transfer to another unit near their new employment. Sometimes they will transfer temporarily to another unit to keep them on the active list until they can return home. The receiving unit often has little use for a transitory member, especially in a high-skills category like a pilot, because those slots usually are filled and, if not filled, would require extensive conversion training of up to six months, an unlikely option for a temporary hire.
As a commander, I would put such "visitors" in some minor administrative post until they went back home. There even were a few instances when I was unaware that they were on my roster because the paperwork often lagged. Today, I can't even recall their names. If a Lt. Bush came into my unit to "pull drills" for a couple of months, I wouldn't be too involved with him because I would have a lot more important things on my table keeping the unit combat ready.
Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:
First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's weekend drill assembly -- the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves, it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.
If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical. Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not confront a drug user.
Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm "being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in The Washington Post in 2000.
Finally, the Kerrys, Moores and McAuliffes are casting a terrible slander on those who served in the Guard, then and now. My Guard career parallels Lt. Bush's, except that I stayed on for 33 years. As a guardsman, I even got to serve in two campaigns. In the Cold War, the air defense of the United States was borne primarily by the Air National Guard, by such people as Lt. Bush and me and a lot of others. Six of those with whom I served in those years never made their 30th birthdays because they died in crashes flying air-defense missions.
While most of America was sleeping and Mr. Kerry was playing antiwar games with Hanoi Jane Fonda, we were answering 3 a.m. scrambles for who knows what inbound threat over the Canadian subarctic, the cold North Atlantic and the shark-filled Gulf of Mexico. We were the pathfinders in showing that the Guard and Reserves could become reliable members of the first team in the total force, so proudly evidenced today in Afghanistan and Iraq.
It didn't happen by accident. It happened because back at the nadir of Guard fortunes in the early '70s, a lot of volunteer guardsman showed they were ready and able to accept the responsibilities of soldier and citizen -- then and now. Lt. Bush was a kid whose congressman father encouraged him to serve in the Air National Guard. We served proudly in the Guard. Would that Mr. Kerry encourage his children and the children of his colleague senators and congressmen to serve now in the Guard.
In the fighter-pilot world, we have a phrase we use when things are starting to get out of hand and it's time to stop and reset before disaster strikes. We say, "Knock it off." So, Mr. Kerry and your friends who want to slander the Guard: Knock it off.

COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (retired)
U.S. Air Force/Air National Guard
Herndon, Va.5

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You're (the proper usage) correct on one account. I did use the wrong form of the word. The rest, I'm afraid, is purely you're (again, the correct usage) interpretation and opinion. Daddy got GW into the guard and into a prime assignment (an air defense unit at that, GUARANTEEING he wouldn't go overseas). Sometimes in haste folks use incorrect grammar and make spelling errors, and the moderators on this board have repeatedly censured posters who correct others' grammar. You, sir, are entitled to YOUR (correct usage, again) OPINION, and I'll keep mine, which happens to be that GW BUSH WILL PROBABLY GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS ONE OF, IF NOT THE, WORST PRESIDENT IN THE LAST 100 YEARS. The economy sucks, no matter what kind of pretty face they try to paint on it (this is why the airlines are hurting so badly, among other industries). I personally have NOT decided who to support in the upcoming elections, but if anyone earned the RIGHT to criticize the Vietnam war it would be someone like Senator Kerry, a man that served proudly. Certainly NOT a man that has used his family wealth and privilege to avoid even entering the conflict, and whose record is so undistinguished that it remains a subject of controversy as to whether he even completed his tour in the Air National Guard! BY the way, I have ALSO served proudly in the guard, and find it to be a very professional organization. The fact that folks used positions in the guard in the late '60s and early '70s to avoid going overseas is commonly known.

 

[sentrido]

How did the merger not happening cause lost jobs at US? Its my understanding that mergers generally cost jobs due to eliminating redundancy.

 

[cavalier]

This topic really took some twists and turns.

Politicians will say anything and everything necessary to win, and that goes for both sides. Both governments and unions are run by people, people are flawed and corrupt by nature and why our system was set up to counter those flaws.

Piney hates union leaders for whatever reason, but they are one in the same as both parties in government. Gee, maybe why he is libertarian. Anyway, going back and forth on this crap is just that in my opinion. No one is really right when dealing with human nature.

If U continue it’s present course this subject will be moot because there won’t be enough people left to makes any difference to Kerry when counting his votes.

 

[sentrido]

"John Kerry protesting the war with no Less than Hanoi Jane is also well known. "

Its my understanding that Kerry's association with "Hanoi Jane" was before she went to "Hanoi". Not after.

 

[cavalier]

Only one correction and one clarification.

I do NOT hate anyone, except maybe Jehovah's Witnesses and the jury is still out there. Not sure if it's their faith or the fact they wake me up on Saturdays!

This my friend is where we agree 2000% !!

They will tell you that the people born in 1914 will see the end, well that means those people are now 90 years old. So they will yet again change their entire belief structure to fit the time problem, which they always do. I used to debate them, now I just tell them politely, go away.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Was Teresa Heinz a registered Republican when she was married to the late Republican Senator from PA? Or do I have the wrong Heinz?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Why is it OK, for our most recent past President to avoid Military Service entirely!

It's OK because the American public said it was. No other reason. Personally, I believe that if he did what he thought was right, that's up to him. Everything he did was legal at the time. If it hadn't been, he wouldn't have been qualified to hold office.

OH and John Kerry marrying Theresa Heinz wasn't a "Target of Opportunity" either? That's rich! Talk about Wealth and Priviledge, She could buy and sell the entire Bush Family but that's OK! As long as your not a devil Republican!

I guess folks from different politcal parties aren't allowed to like each other?

What? My wife isn't allowed HER OWN opinion? I guess Arnold is a democrat since he married into the Kennedy family, and has publicly said that he greatly respects Ted Kennedy.

John Kerry protesting the war with no Less than Hanoi Jane is also well known.

I watched CNN the other day, and Hanoi Jane herself said that while she and Kerry may have been at some events at the same time, she had never met nor even shook hands with him. Yes, people ARE allowed to protest, even in public. That's one of the freedoms the military fights for. I think that history has proven MANY reasons the VN conflict was ill conceived. One thing's for sure. Kerry lived it. I, and likely you, did not.

I have NOT decided who to support for president in 2004, but with the poor handling of the economy I'm greatly inclined to support whomever the democrats choose as their nominee. Especially with the idiotic arguments I see here about folks exercising their rights to free speech.

 

[A10Pilot]

You're (the proper usage) correct on one account. I did use the wrong form of the word. The rest, I'm afraid, is purely you're (again, the correct usage) interpretation and opinion. Daddy got GW into the guard and into a prime assignment (an air defense unit at that, GUARANTEEING he wouldn't go overseas). Sometimes in haste folks use incorrect grammar and make spelling errors, and the moderators on this board have repeatedly censured posters who correct others' grammar. You, sir, are entitled to YOUR (correct usage, again) OPINION, and I'll keep mine, which happens to be that GW BUSH WILL PROBABLY GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS ONE OF, IF NOT THE, WORST PRESIDENT IN THE LAST 100 YEARS. The economy sucks, no matter what kind of pretty face they try to paint on it (this is why the airlines are hurting so badly, among other industries). I personally have NOT decided who to support in the upcoming elections, but if anyone earned the RIGHT to criticize the Vietnam war it would be someone like Senator Kerry, a man that served proudly. Certainly NOT a man that has used his family wealth and privilege to avoid even entering the conflict, and whose record is so undistinguished that it remains a subject of controversy as to whether he even completed his tour in the Air National Guard! BY the way, I have ALSO served proudly in the guard, and find it to be a very professional organization. The fact that folks used positions in the guard in the late '60s and early '70s to avoid going overseas is commonly known.

"You're .. interpretation.."???

You are certainly entitled to YOUR opinion, but your hatred is blinding you to the facts. First of all, do you even know we are at war? Do you know there are radical Islamists plotting to deliver attacks on US soil that would make 9/11 look like a drive-by shooting? We (US military personell) have uncovered maps in Al Qaeda hands that detail the locations of every nuclear power plant, every major dam, every major landmark in the US. We have a President who knows, understands, and acts on this knowledge. Unlike the rapist, who did nothing while we were attacked again and again - thus emboldening the terrorists into thinking we are a paper tiger.

Our economy, already entering a downturn as the result of the bubble under the previous administration, suffered a huge blow when we were attacked on September 11, 2001. Or did you FORGET THAT? Do you suppose a great deal of the turmoil in the airline industry was tied to the fact that AIRLINERS were turned into WEAPONS?

As far as the economy goes, we saw growth at the highest rate IN 20 YEARS in the 3rd quarter 03 (what happened 20 years ago??? hmmmmm could it be the follow on to tax cuts?). The growth continues and is predicted to be strong in 04. Especially after the first quarter and people get sizable increases in their tax refunds due to the tax cuts.

Here are just a few comments about the economic numbers, several from sources not friendly to Republicans....

Economists Predict Sustained Growth

“America's economic report card was released Thursday and it was nothing short of stunning. The U.S. economy grew 7.2 percent in the third quarter, a pace not seen in nearly 20 years. Equally impressive and, let's hope, a long-awaited harbinger that the job drought is about to end, business investment grew more than 15 percent, double the rate of the previous quarter. When businesses spend that kind of money on equipment, it means they've decided this recovery is for real. They're ready to crank up and start hiring again.â€￾ (Editorial, Chicago Tribune, 10/31/03)

"Pop the champagne corks," Bank One chief economist Diane Swonk says. "It's very much vindication that the U.S. economy is moving from a lackluster economy to a more rooted recovery." (USA Today, Keen, 10/31/03)

"The U.S. slowdown is over, dead, gone, defunct, finished and unlikely to return soon," said Sherry Cooper, chief economist with BMO Nesbitt Burns. (AP, Aversa, 10/30/03)

"There should be no doubt that the president's jobs and growth package was largely responsible for the torrid third quarter growth rate," said economist Rich Yamarone of Argus Research in New York. (The Washington Post, Berry, 10/30/03)

"This has President Bush's fingerprints all over it," said Richard Yamarone, director of economic research at Argus Research Corp. "We must give credit where credit is due. There should be no doubt (the tax cuts) were largely responsible for the torrid third-quarter growth rate." (The Star-Ledger (NJ), Ali, 10/31/03)

*****

The bottom line, the economy is strong - especially in the face of the aftermath of a devastating terrorist attack and the continued threat of additional attacks. THE PRESIDENT WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE MAN WHO BROUGHT LEADERSHIP TO THE FREE WORLD IN AN HORRIFIC FIGHT WITH A GLOBAL TERROR NETWORK BENT ON OUR DESTRUCTION.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Yes, Your interpretation. Tell your theories to the THOUSANDS of airline employees STILL out of work because of the poor economy. Tell it to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS whose telecom jobs are flowing overseas. I just heard this morning that MORE manufacturing jobs are going overseas. Quote all the right-wing journalists you want. I'm living it, buddy. The economy sucks! Folks are pulling out all the stops to try to get GWB reelected, but I don't think it will work. As one of my heroes, Ronald Reagan asked, ..are you better off now than you were four years ago? For a huge number of folks the answer is plainly, "NO!"