I was talking about the AA, not pbgc pension totals close to 48k with social security.
Is the AMT Pension next concession of the TWU?
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Wretched Wrench
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The Wall Street Journal last Friday had an interesting article, titled "As Workers Pensions Wither, Those for Executives Flourish".
The title speaks volumes.
The title speaks volumes.
Hopeful
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As ONEFLYER and FORMER MODERAATOR have said in reference to this subject, go get yourselves an MBA and make the big bucks.
These exuctives are worth every penny, while the evil unions and their workers are ahving the pensions taken away and given a patry few % match on their 401k paln.
THese guys have no shame taking their companies to bankruptcy court and asking a judge to tear up labor agreements and slash wages and benefits AT THE SAME TIME ASKING THE JUDGE TO INCREASE THE COMPENSATION PACKAGES FOR THE TOP EXECS SO THEY DON'T LOSE THESE KEY MANAGEMENT PLAYERS.
This calls to mind back in 1989 during the Eastern Airlines Bankruptcy. Lorenzo hired Martin Shugrue from PANAM to run Eastern.
It didn't take long for Shugrue to ask the bankruptcy judge for an increase in compensation in line with the president/ceo's of the other major carriers.
The judge denied Shugrue saying that he is running a bankrupt carrier and therefore is not entitled to the salaries of the other airline execs.
Maybe we should ask Little where we can buy a fake one like his.
What would happen if you left the company prior to retirement and termination of the plan? Would you be locked into it and still be due what was projected at 55? A link would be nice if you have one.<_< ------ Obviously you don't know a damn thing about the PBGC!(semi-Government backed found) First, if it should go to them, you may only receive pennies on a dollar for your promised retirement! Would you agree to take 50% or more less then what was promised you? Dealing with these people, that's exactly what could happen!!
Plated at best.
I still think that giving up what we did "to save the pension" was a big mistake. First of all we didnt save anything except the jobs of the executives who put us in the position we are in and their cozy deal with the TWU where they get a $3.1 million kickback from the company for being "cooperative".
"Saving the pension" was just a fear mongering slogan to get what they wanted. By keeping the pension they got to keep their expenses lower and retain a valuable tool for keeping their labor costs lower in the future.
If offered the $203,000 for a buyout I'd take it in an instant before I'd trust the company and their promises of keeping the pension. Having our pension in this management teams hand is not a wise move, the more portability we can establish the better off we are. Once they no longer have that hanging over us a lot more people would be willing to do what needs to be done to retosre our wages and benifits.
I'm not one of these guys that claim that we should all "be in control of our own retirements", I feel we should keep SS as it is and not be pushed into throwing it into the greatest Ponzi scheme of all time-the Stock Market but I have come to the realization that most corporations have no intent on keeping their promises, no matter how much, like Arpey, say they want to. I think the man is a flat out liar.
There are different types of businessmen out there, there are the entrepreneurs, like Kelleher, who build companies and reward the workers that help make them successful. Often these entrepreneurs dont have MBAs, they have emotional intelligence, drive, ethics and relate well to people, the companies they run provide everything that a corporation should, a good service, good employment and a return for the investor. Then you have the mercenary, void of the previosly mentioned attributes, equiped with an MBA and a lot of bullshit theory that equates human beings as no more than a different type of Capital, living breathing pork bellies, sheep, broken down into numbers and formula, to them there is no difference between an airline and a fast food chain. They have no love for anything but whatever they can extract over a three or four year period, they may work here this year, over at Walmart next, it makes no difference. They come in with fake plans and initiatives for "change" and a bunch of tired slogans and must laugh to themselves as the saps just soak it all up, "Turn Around Plan", "Pull Together Win Together", "Do the Right Thing", all right out of PT Barnums handbook, sad thing is, it works every time! These slicksters, like Arpey are selling a line that "We are all in this Together", but leaving out the fact that what he is doing is taking every thing he can from us and stuffing whatever he can into his own pockets, and those of his friends like that Horton guy. (What industry did Horton return to us from? See what I mean about these guys.)
They politely hide their true intent, to rob us of a fair value for what they want from us, by trying to make it seem that the boogiemen are all on the outside. "JetBlue is trying to harm your family!!!! WE have to beat them!" as they slash your pay and medical benifits. The truth is that Jet Blue is working for the same people that AA and every other carrier is working for-the people that own the airplanes and facilities and Capital the airlines use. They are still making tons of money, and as long as we all sit in separate unions run by corrupt officials and keep them flying they will continue to make tons of money, and we will continue to lose. In the meantime the Arpeys will collect their fees, chant out their slogans and come up with with one phony initiative after the other.
MCI transplant
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<_< ----- Sorry Bob I don't have that link for you! If I can come up with it I'll post it! But the way it works is the PBGC will only pay up to a certain Dollar amount per month. If your plan exceeds that, your just plan out of luck! If you left early, you would only receive what was due you, up to that limit. And that limit is calculated differently for different plans. But what really hurts is the Medical,or any other benifits, which they will not pay! It would be gone! They figure you'd be on Medicaid anyway. What I'd like to know is what is the obsession with the PBGC? They would only get involved if aa was in bankruptcy! And with the new regulations, I just can't see aa going that route! Threats yes! But actually doing it? No! AMFAMAN has a link, top of page!
I dont know about that. Are you saying that the only way a company can terminate its pension is by going BK, didnt IBM terminate its plan?
If the company told Little they were terminating the plan, but still giving the TWU the $3.1 million a year kickback what do you think Littles response would be?
I'll tell you what it would be. AA would supposedly be "on the courthouse steps" again and Little would claim that he made the "tough decision" to terminate the pension in order to save 20,000 jobs.
eolesen
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By law, there's nothing that stops a company from unilaterally freezing a pension plan for nonunionized employees with a 45 day notice. Unionized plans can be frozen if the bargaining unit agrees to it.
Freezing isn't necessarily a bad thing for younger or close-to-retirement workers, but it does have some serious impact if you're in your late 40's/early 50's and haven't planned on anything more than your pension and social security...
TWA dumped their pension in December of 2000, outside of BK and just prior to the merger. They had an agreement....
http://www.pbgc.gov/media/news-archive/2000/pr01-11.html
Wretched Wrench
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Sorry, no link, but I believe that if you left today, your pension would be locked at a dollar amount, say $1150, times years in the plan. That would be full retirement at age 60 and your wife gets nothing when you die. There would be an acturarial adjust for age. The dollar amount would remain the same right up until you draw it. So, the younger you are when you leave the company, the more inflation eats away at that dollar amount.
TIME FOR CHANGE
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Does anyone know the multiplier for the twu employee
Wretched Wrench
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.01666
TIME FOR CHANGE
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Well for a TWU represented Employee at AA its .01666 using the average of the best five out of the last 10 years. This lowers the final number. However for a TWU Employee, such as International officers, its .025 using their best year with a 5% increase and our dues pay for it.I am laughing my arse off.... to bad your figure is probably true
So we provide these clowns with a pension that they would never even try to get for us. They get a 5% raise every year after they retire till the day they die, and we get 25% paycuts.
Wretched Wrench
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Speaking from memory, I believe it's the best 4 years since the 2001 contract.
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