Twu Concessions

[Bob Owens]

Stop nit-picking. We chose NOT to go into BK. That was not a single item in of itself to be voted on or not to be voted on. It was better than the alternative of BK. Wouldn't you agree Hopeful.

We didn't like any of it Hopeful but we did what was best for the majority of the members.

I voted YES, what did you vote Hopeful??

So every time the company wants concessions all they have to do is threaten bankruptcy and thats it?

Who knows if BK would have been worse, the guys across the ramp who are in BK make more money, still have all their sick time, vacation and holidays, oh yea they will have to start paying for their benifits like we have been doing for the last 15 years.

The fact is that because of the concessions that we gave in the past the need for AA to outsource was not as dire as other carriers that did not have SRPs or OSMs. Even if AA went BK, and we refused to give concessions it still would not have paid for AA to close Tulsa or AFW and contract out all that work, if the third party providors could have even handled it.

I still say that the AFL-CIO unions should have gotten together and make a statement letting everyone know that they would not allow the events of Sept 11 and the poor economy to be a burden cast upon the workers of this industry. That they will not allow them to exploit these events at our expense and if any contract duly and fairly enterred into is abrogated by the courts all AFL-CIO airline workers will walk off the job.

Unfortunately our chicken-$hit leaders just sat back, collecting their six gfigure salaries, plus whatever they get from the company, and let them pick us off one at a time.

How much you want to bet Hopeful voted NO?

 

[twuer]

You have proven once again that all you care about is having an extra couple of bucks in your pocket. Screw the rest of you suckers who bought inot this amfa crap and are now on the streets!!!!!! The laughs on you!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

You have proven once again that all you care about is having an extra couple of bucks in your pocket. Screw the rest of you suckers who bought inot this amfa crap and are now on the streets!!!!!! The laughs on you!!!!!!!!!!

So how do you blame AMFA for the thousands of TWU members on the street?

The company laid off even more Fleet service than maint. How do you pin that on AMFA? Or maybe you dont care about them?

 

[Hopeful]

TWUer:

ONCE AGAIN I ASK YOU:

How much are you willing to give in respect to concessions? For you, TWUer, when is enough enough?

 

[Hopeful]

You have proven once again that all you care about is having an extra couple of bucks in your pocket. Screw the rest of you suckers who bought inot this amfa crap and are now on the streets!!!!!! The laughs on you!!!!!!!!!!

TWUer, good union man you are, gloating that people are on the street!

How compassionate of you!

 

[Bob Owens]

You have proven once again that all you care about is having an extra couple of bucks in your pocket. Screw the rest of you suckers who bought inot this amfa crap and are now on the streets!!!!!! The laughs on you!!!!!!!!!!

And how did you come to that conclusion?

The fact is that by forcing these concessions on our older workers who are nearing retirement we screwed them for the rest of their lives. In the past we dealt with hard times with layoffs figuring the young could bear it out and recover, but this contract permanently hurt our oldest workers to the point where they can never recover and the longer they stay the worse it is.

 

[Nightwatch]

TWUer:

ONCE AGAIN I ASK YOU:

How much are you willing to give in respect to concessions? For you, TWUer, when is enough enough?

Well Hopeful, I'm not twuer, but I suspect I'd draw the line at allowing AMFA into AA, that would be my bottom line.

You ask when is enough, enough? Check the want ads, find another job that pays this well or better, decide for yourself that it's time to go elsewhere, and go. I would say each member has the right to choose when his/her limit has been reached and at that point to act accordingly, it's called a democracy.

 

[Hopeful]

So, Nightwatch, you would be willing to give up your pension?

How about another 17% paycut not counting vacation, holiday and sick time pay?

Deleted

 

[Nightwatch]

So, Nightwatch, you would be willing to give up your pension?

How about another 17% paycut not counting vacation, holiday and sick time pay?

What a spinless asswipe!

What was it Hopeful about my post that upset you to the point of personally attacking me? You asked a question, I replied. Would I give up my pension, of course not, unless I hired in at Alaskan Air, under AMFA, then I could get myself another 401K plan.

I understand your being upset, if all I had in life was a dream of attaining a "Craft Orientated" union into my workplace, then I too would have a negative outlook on life. I do now understand why you named yourself "hopeful".

You might consider next time you post a question to add..." If I do not agree with your answer then I will call you vulgar names, but please, do reply."

 

[Raptor]

I would say each member has the right to choose when his/her limit has been reached and at that point to act accordingly, it's called a democracy.

Hopefull I don't think Nightwatch said what you think he said I think he said every member has to make up his own mind of when to give or what to give and I agree with that we all have different needs and wants and all we can do is vote in the best interest of those needs and wants, I voted NO I would have been willing to give a little but they wanted more than I wanted to give, some voted NO and were not willing to give anything others voted yes and were willing to give what they asked for, Democracy doesn't always work out the way we want it too.

 

[Nightwatch]

My point exactly Raptor.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well Hopeful, I'm not twuer, but I suspect I'd draw the line at allowing AMFA into AA, that would be my bottom line.

You ask when is enough, enough? Check the want ads, find another job that pays this well or better, decide for yourself that it's time to go elsewhere, and go. I would say each member has the right to choose when his/her limit has been reached and at that point to act accordingly, it's called a democracy.

And this person claims to be a union man, sounds more like management doesnt he? Oh yea thats right he is a TWU man, same as management.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well Hopeful, I'm not twuer, but I suspect I'd draw the line at allowing AMFA into AA, that would be my bottom line.

You ask when is enough, enough? Check the want ads, find another job that pays this well or better, decide for yourself that it's time to go elsewhere, and go. I would say each member has the right to choose when his/her limit has been reached and at that point to act accordingly, it's called a democracy.

Dont people vote in a Democracy?

Isnt that what the company and the TWU were trying to prevent?

Jim Little and the International control our contract. The TWU said in court that the only time that they have to allow the members to vote is with an entirely new contract. Everyone knows that in our industry contracts do not expire, they become amendable, that means that people who are not elected by the members can impose any contract "modifications" without a membership vote.

Is that democracy too? Or just democracy "TWU style"? Its funny, Stalin and most other despots held elections and claimed that they were democratically elected too. In fact our system is nearly identical to the USSR. Most Americans felt that the Soviet system was not really a democracy. Most Americans are obviosly not TWU supporters.

 

[Nightwatch]

And this person claims to be a union man, sounds more like management doesnt he? Oh yea thats right he is a TWU man, same as management.

So by your statement anyone that is concerned for their continuing employment is management? You script a long story but never really state anything, why is that? You are quick to throw barbs and yell management this and management that. You telling me that no AMFA man would care about his employment?

With statements such as yours, I'll stay TWU, don't believe I care to associate my name with yours. No wonder AMFA lost, you and Dave Stewart did more for the TWU cause than TEAMTWU, and I thank you.

 

[Bob Owens]

So by your statement anyone that is concerned for their continuing employment is management?

Not at all. But one who says that the only way to remain employed is to work for less and give the company everything they want is not expressing a traditional union point of view. Basically what you are saying is that unions have no power to maintain wages.

You script a long story but never really state anything, why is that?

Oh really? Give me an example and I'll clarify it for you.

You are quick to throw barbs and yell management this and management that. You telling me that no AMFA man would care about his employment?

Once again, you equate resistance to concessions as a lack of desire to remain employed. We all wish to remain employed just as we all wish to live. However sometimes we have to take risks and fight.If you are content to take whatever the company feels like giving you, and you dont want to fight because you may lose your job, then you dont belong in a union, unless that union is the TWU.



With statements such as yours, I'll stay TWU, don't believe I care to associate my name with yours. No wonder AMFA lost, you and Dave Stewart did more for the TWU cause than TEAMTWU, and I thank you.

Thats fine by me and you're welcome. No real union needs people like you that dont want to fight.