Twu Concessions

[Nightwatch]

Bob, I'm not going to get into a name calling match with you. Our views do not match, nor does our integrity level, we'll let it go at that.

But you did bring up a good point.

Basically what you are saying is that unions have no power to maintain wages.

...I do not know of any union, including your AMFA, that can guarantee me or anyone else to maintain my wages. Do you know of any Bob? I believe to make a statement like that would be to presume you know of a union that will strike at any level of negotiations, without hesitation, to keep a wage. It will not occur. And in our industry what happens when a strike does occur? Remember any you were in? The President steps in and forces a return to work, and return to arbitration, usually within what, 3 days or so.

How many times has AMFA led a successful strike for wages/benefits Bob? How many times has AMFA led an unsuccessful strike for wages/benefits Bob?

You suggest I would not fight if I thought what the company offered was to little. Bob, I have fought before and I will fight again if the situation warrants. I will do more than read these forums to form my opinions on what to fight for and when. I didn't see you leading a fight when we voted for the concessions. I saw you pass out reasons why we shouldn't vote for it, all according to "Hi, I'm Bob Owens", but Bob, why didn't you suggest a work stoppage or a wildcat, remember the old wildcats Bob, I do.

Don't concern yourself with my level of belief in unionism Bob, there are bigger fish to fry than I.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

How many times has AMFA led a successful strike for wages/benefits Bob? How many times has AMFA led an unsuccessful strike for wages/benefits Bob?

nw, I know of one strike that AMFA members at NWA were willing to sdhere to. The MEMBERS at NWA told the union what they wanted and what they were willing to do to achieve thier goals. It was AMFA that took that message and acted upon it. AMFA National then organized informational pickets across the country including the White House. Weas this a strike? No, they were going to strike but our business bought President stepped in and created a PEB. AMFA then waited for the PEB to expire, all the time negotiating with the company & government hoping to come to equal terms, but NWA saw the strength of AMFA at NWA and the rest is history. Would AMFA members at NWA gone on strike had management not conceeded? I believe they would have.

When was the last time the twu threatened to go on strike? If they did threaten was it like the iam's threat at USAir recently with thier farmed out Airbus aircraft?


...I do not know of any union, including your AMFA, that can guarantee me or anyone else to maintain my wages. Do you know of any Bob? I believe to make a statement like that would be to presume you know of a union that will strike at any level of negotiations, without hesitation, to keep a wage. It will not occur. And in our industry what happens when a strike does occur? Remember any you were in? The President steps in and forces a return to work, and return to arbitration, usually within what, 3 days or so.


AMFA does not willingly accept concession... especially with no snap back clauses.

What happens in our industry when a strike occurs? Well with the way the afl-cio affiliated industrial union represented AMTs are concerned NOTHING HAPPENS! With the industrial unions you so strongly support one would be led to believe that with all their political power and STRENGTH IN NUMBERS mantra something positive would take place. But alas, the industrial unions you so much admire a strike is something that they fear most. A strike is NOT something to take lightly. But with the twu, iam & ibt it is something they do not wish to use to PROTECT negotiated wages and benefits. They simply prefer to give back whenever asked. Just like the twu.

Why is the twu getting thier collective panties in a knot now over what little stole from the mebers? Why fight now to get back something that could have had snap backs negotiated into them?

Follow a union for thier actions instead of what they say? I'll follow AMFA.

 

[twuer]

AMFA does not willingly accept concession... especially with no snap back clauses.


No, they would rather go into BK and let the chips fall where they may!!!! That's a great union for ya'!!!!!!

 

[Nightwatch]

Why is the twu getting thier collective panties in a knot now over what little stole from the mebers? Why fight now to get back something that could have had snap backs negotiated into them?

Ken, the TWU is changing and you complain of that? Did the AMFA drive create this? Probably, the TWU learns that not only is our industry changing but so is our member's requirements with that change. What worked in the '60's doesn't hold water in the new millenium. Jim Little stole? That Ken is your opinion, not factual. My opinion of the McCormick Group and how it earns it's money and receives it's contract probably ranks right up there with your opinion of Jim, but again, it is my opinion and opinion only.

AMFA does not willingly accept concession... especially with no snap back clauses.

Ken, the TWU does not willingly accept concessions either. The TWU is for saving jobs, and at times, yes there are concessions presented to save jobs. Does that mean we willingly accept? I know of no-one that willingly voted to accept the concessionary package, they did what they felt neccessary to keep their family intact.

And really Ken, no one I know of has EVER been allowed a "snap-back" clause when facing a BK court, do you? What the pilots received was not a "snap-back", read it again.


Perhaps you know the floor better than I. It will be the floor to vote on a strike issue. They will vote their mind whether they are AMFA or TWU, how they vote doesn't reflect on the union. I'm not sure of your history with AA and strikes, but at MCI it was always voted to strike when asked, NEVER did we say no to the IAM.
BTW, the IAM is another Industrial union who struck many times.


I know you are well read, I know you realize the TWU cannot ask for a "wildcat". So I suppose by your statement about the TWU not asking for a strike, was during contract negotiations that were at a standstill. Correct? Without the info leading up to that point I shy away from commenting on it. From meeting a lot of the leadership of Local 514 I believe those boys would approve a strike if the situation warranted that action. I wonder if your drive for a craft only union at AA sometimes gets you reaching for complaints on the TWU, just an observation Ken.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

The company just loves us for "SHARING" and "SACRIFICING" to help them out!

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I'm not going to get into a name calling match with you. Our views do not match, nor does our integrity level, we'll let it go at that.

Ok, did I call you a name?

But you did bring up a good point. ...I do not know of any union, including your AMFA, that can guarantee me or anyone else to maintain my wages. Do you know of any Bob? I believe to make a statement like that would be to presume you know of a union that will strike at any level of negotiations, without hesitation, to keep a wage.

Did I say anything about guarantees? Are you saying that unions have no power to maintain wages? The fact is that with the TWU our real earnings have been in steady decline for over 20 years. This is in good times and bad.

It will not occur. And in our industry what happens when a strike does occur? Remember any you were in?

Yes, 1981, it lasted about 2 hrs. When was the last time you were in one? When was the last time the AA/TWU was in one? 1969. Ed Koziatek said flat out that we will never see the TWU strike at AA.

The President steps in and forces a return to work, and return to arbitration, usually within what, 3 days or so.

Usually within 3 days or so? THere have not been many PEBs. The only ones I know of were the one in 1966, then the AA pilots, and now that the government knows that Labor has no guts, every major airline that reaches an impasse under Bush. Bush does not wait until a strike, he issues his PEBS before a strike. What happens under a PEB? STATUS QUO.

How many times has AMFA led a successful strike for wages/benefits Bob?

More times than the TWU/ATD over the last 30 years.

How many times has AMFA led an unsuccessful strike for wages/benefits Bob?

None that I know of. When was the last time the AA/TWU even threatened to strike?

You suggest I would not fight if I thought what the company offered was to little.

So you are saying that with this contract they offered enough?


Bob, I have fought before and I will fight again if the situation warrants.

When? At what point would you say its time to fight?

I will do more than read these forums to form my opinions on what to fight for and when. I didn't see you leading a fight when we voted for the concessions. I saw you pass out reasons why we shouldn't vote for it, all according to "Hi, I'm Bob Owens", but Bob, why didn't you suggest a work stoppage or a wildcat, remember the old wildcats Bob, I do.

You're cute. Instead of a Wildcat, we will simply get rid of the Union that refuses to lead.

Don't concern yourself with my level of belief in unionism Bob, there are bigger fish to fry than I.