Industry Consolidation?

[javaboy]

3years after the twa/aa meger (which successfully used the distressed carrier option in its argument for approval) how many TWA employees are still working for AMR... 15year pilots laid off while 4 year amr employees retained positions .

you know by actually running the company and turning a profit it would increase the Value thus a sale would command a high price thus it makes more sense to put efforts in to running the airline than shopping it for a greater ROI

 

[Winglet]

Carty's purchase of TWA assets was a collosal strategic blunder, and most AA employees I know thought so at the time. Buying 20% more capacity and having huge integration costs on top of that, just at a time when it was obvious to the most casual observer that the economy was going into recession, was incredibly stupid. But to Carty it was gambling with other people's money . . . . and he walked away from AA with crockadile tears laughing all the way to the bank . . . . . the one near his posh estate in the Canadian Rockies.

Like TWA, I think U has little value as a operating company. The capacity isn't needed and probably an impedement to the recovery progress of the industry as a whole. There are a few routes that would be bid on, but the rest is surplus. The void left by U would be filled in very short order. 3-4 years ago, that wouldn't be true, but not today and not for the foreseeable future.

 

[USA320Pilot]

767jetz:

What I find interesting is as soon as M&A activity is discussed you pounce of the thread. If it's no concern or if I am so, so wrong, than why do you waste your time posting on the US Airways board?

I have said many times that I do not want US Airways to have M&A activity and I would prefer that our two companies did not have a code share agreement.

Nonetheless, Marilyn Adams wrote last Friday that Federal officials have been lobbied more quietly on another sensitive topic: airline consolidation. Faced with the possibility of financial failure, US Airways has been building a case in Washington that an airline merger wouldn't be a bad thing. "We've been very frank with regulators and legislators that consolidation is the inevitable next step," says US Airways executive Chris Chiames.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[767jetz]

What I find interesting is as soon as M&A activity is discussed you pounce of the thread. If it's no concern or if I am so, so wrong, than why do you waste your time posting on the US Airways board?

Because I find you amusing. Kinda like I find the clowns at the circus amusing. (Hey, you asked...)

Don't read so much into it, Tokyo Rose.

And by the way, I didn't exactly "pounce" as you put it. Your M&A thread was around for a while. In fact I think I even let it go about 4 pages before I put my 2 cents in. I actually enjoyed reading your fellow employees tear you apart for a while.

P.S. With all due respect, you are so, so wrong.

 

[usfliboi]

Yea ok, keep up your delusions of granduer, if you were something you would not be flying a plane, you would be in management like you think you are.

You are not a CCY insider, you are an EMPLOYEE, guess you can't fathom that!

And I only post information that is given to us by the IAM, not phony facts or opinions unlike yourself, you have been proven wrong so many times it is unreal that you come back and keep posting.

By the way it is FOUR months now and we are still waiting for your "painful" clause in the IAM mechanic and related contract?

Do I need to keep going?

Isnt it painful to see your oil changes going to bhm?

 

[APL Refugee]

Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction Corporate Transaction.

M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A M&A.

If not this, THAN that.

I think I'll log on, THAN I'll post some stuff.

then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than.



Sorry All, I just wanted to see if it was fun being USA320PILOT

 

[Fly]

 

[767jetz]

then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than then/than.



Sorry All, I just wanted to see if it was fun being USA320PILOT

😀 😀 😀

You slay me!

 

[funguy2]

The point of this thread was to discuss US Airways and senior management's desire to enter into some form of M&A activity -- with the thought that US Airways and America West may extend their reach as the first business competition to restructure into a truly competitive network airline/LCC hybrid airline. But, whenever United is discussed, certain United employees come out of the woodwork disputing everything I say, regardless of the point.

USA320Pilot:

I do not believe a merger between America West and US Airways is any more likely than a merger between UAL and US Airways.

However, you get a bigger tirade on UAL because it is something you have been harping for at least two years... Two years of "Who first said..." and "You are wrong!" And yet, your "beloved" UCT has yet to occur, despite two years of "Who first said..." and "You are wrong!"

I have a '73 Ford Pinto. I am desparate to sell it. It kinda/sorta works, as long as its not raining. Selling price: $200

Just because I am desparate to sell, doesn't mean I will find a buyer. Even at a "bargain-basement" price.

US Airways is desparate to sell their '73 Pinto, and you constant comments reflect that desperation.

The sad reality is that, the inevitable industry consolidation is more likely to come from a company (or companies) exiting the market. That's what happened when the industry consolidated in 1991-93 (nobody merged with the remains of Eastern or Midway). It will likely occur again.

 

[700UW]

Isnt it painful to see your oil changes going to bhm?

Lets see how many things I can disprove in your post.

1. Not Oil Changes, A/C overhaul S-Check
2. Singapore Technologies MOBILE Aerospace, not Birmingham, Aerospace.
3. BFM is where they are located, that is Brookley Field Mobile.

Seven out of 10 airplanes had maintenance issues upon leaving ST MAE.

We all know your deal and your deciete.

And I would really tell you how I feel, but I don't need a trip to the cornfield, so try again.

 

[funguy2]

The purpose of this thread was to discuss reports that US Airways and America West may integrate and boom

BTW... I did not see any "reports" of this, other than from USA320Pilot... Did I miss something here?

 

[jimntx]

3years after the twa/aa meger (which successfully used the distressed carrier option in its argument for approval) how many TWA employees are still working for AMR... 15year pilots laid off while 4 year amr employees retained positions .

And, there are 50 year flight attendants on furlough while 5 year flight attendants are still flying. And, there are several lawsuits still pending--mostly against AA's flight attendant union. Does anyone truly think that another airline will step in and try to merge U's represented workforce with their own--particularly with the sterling example of the AA-TWA debacle as an example of what could happen?

As much as I hate to see it happen to anyone else--I've been unemployed for almost a year now--it seems to me that the only way for U's employees to stay is for U to find a way to keep flying and make a profit on its own. P.S. I am NOT convinced that the current problem is all labor's fault. The problem is that the guys who hold all the cards (i.e., management) in the transformation are not going to admit that they had any part in the current mess.

I agree with Winglet that Carty's determination to buy TWA was not based upon sound business reasons. At the time, Carty was just afraid that the UAL-U merger would go through and AA would no longer be "the world's largest airline." I don't think there is anyone else out there right now who has the "fire in the gut" necessary to spend the money to take on U for the same or similar reasons.

Just about every network carrier has a/c sitting in the desert and furloughed employees sitting at home that could be recalled on fairly short notice to take up any slack caused by U's demise. That's the reality today. There are a lot of a/c and a lot of trained employees available for use right now. AA has almost 6,000 flight attendants on furlough right now. If I'm not mistaken that's more than U has flying right now.

What's the answer? I don't know, but I doubt that M&A is it.

 

[Cosmo]

Apparently I missed a lot of this discussion over the weekend (believe it or not, I actually have a life away from USAviation 😛 ).

Your information is not consistent with what I am hearing ...

USA320Pilot:

So let me get this straight -- the information that I posted, which quoted documents United filed with the bankruptcy court or the SEC, are "not consistent with what [you are] hearing"? And therefore, in your mind, your second-hand hearsay reports are more correct? That's laughable.

... and its obvious United still does not qualify for the loan guarantee.

Once again, that's your opinion, nothing more, nothing less. It's certainly not supported by any documentation.

Fuel prices are making it difficult to convince Fitch Rating that the company can make a 7% profit margin in 7 years ...

You mean like the wonderful job that US Airways did in pulling the wool over Fitch's eyes in that carrier's loan application?

... and the creditors committee knows the problem.

With all due respect, since you are not a member of the United's creditors' committee and, further, you are neither a lawyer, accountant or aviation consultant advising the committee, you have no idea what that committee does and does not know!

 

[Cosmo]

The point of this thread was to discuss US Airways and senior management's desire to enter into some form of M&A activity -- with the thought that US Airways and America West may extend their reach as the first business competition to restructure into a truly competitive network airline/LCC hybrid airline. But, whenever United is discussed, certain United employees come out of the woodwork disputing everything I say, regardless of the point.

<snip>

USA320Pilot concludes: ... why is every US Airways M&A thread hijacked by United employees? The purpose of this thread was to discuss reports that US Airways and America West may integrate and boom -- the United employees hijack the thread with unprofessional comments and language.

That is plain and simply WRONG, and you know it! It's bad enough when you ignore or misinterpret other posts that attempt to correct your inaccuracies or outright fabrications, but don't you even remember what YOU wrote to start this thread? Let me refresh your memory with the first paragraph that you wrote:

Since the US Airways - United merger was terminated there has been continued news media speculation that the business partners would once again try to complete a corporate combination. David Bronner has publicly said on four occasions that he was interested in buying United assets if they became available and last month Dow Jones reported that former chief executive officer Dave Siegel rushed to get out of bankruptcy so US Airways could merge with United.

Your first post on this thread that, once again, YOU STARTED, talked about nothing but United and US Airways FOR A FULL 16 PARAGRAPHS, complete with hyperlinks to no fewer than four news stories discussing United's current situation. It was only in the last three paragraphs of the mind-numbing 19 paragraphs contained in your initial post that you even mentioned America West and, even then, United still crept into the discussion.

And you still wonder why United employees and others (like myself) who value the truth respond to your posts? Even you can't be that dense!

Frankly, I find it disingenuous and intellectually dishonest to start a thread that's mainly a discussion about United and US Airways and THEN later whine about the thread being "hijacked by United employees". IMHO, that's the definition of a "wind-up artist".

 

[Cosmo]

As recently stated by Dow Jones Newswires, the reason David Bronner and Dave Siegel exited bankruptcy so early was their interest in US Airways acquiring United Airlines or many of its assets, which Bronner publicly commented on in four separate interviews, but that did not happen due to deteriorating fundamentals.

USA320Pilot:

That's nothing more than revisionist history!

US Airways exited Chapter 11 on March 31, 2003, for one reason and one reason only: The agreement between the carrier and its pre-bankruptcy credit card transaction processor expired by its terms on that date, and no other processor would agree to perform that function for US Airways while it was still in bankruptcy proceedings. And without such a processor and, more importantly, the cash flow generated by the credit card transactions, US Airways would have totally run out of cash within a matter of weeks and quickly entered Chapter 7 proceedings.

No amount of "spin" about a possible merger with United, whether it was talked about by the two companies or not, will change that reality.