Industry M&a Activity?

[Bear96]

USE170copilot,

I think what intrigues some of us is how you can take a quote from Tilton which is basically an observation that "the industry will be consolidating over the next few years" (duh, I have been saying that for years, and over the last couple of years you too have quoted various airline CEOs saying essentially the same thing when it happened to suit whatever fantasy you were living out that day), and from that immediately jump to the conclusion, "Therefore, U and UA are merging."

Your sloppy logic is what we find fascinating.

Will U and UA merge in some form one day? Sure, it's possible. But using Tilton's current comments as proof it is going to happen shows poor cognitive and reasoning skills. Not to mention desperation.

BTW congrats on becoming part of the Air Wisconsin Express network. I guess some sort of consolidation IS finally happening (as many of us have been expecting for some time now). Will you be bidding on U's feeder flights to Appleton? You can stand around and gawk at all those big Air Whisky planes there in between your flights.

(And, to save you the trouble: 1) I can post on whatever board I want to; and 2) I don't really know how things are at UA right now as I have moved on.)

 

[gso-crew]

Quote ""The acquiring legacy airline might even be able to obtain wage concessions from its unions as a quid-pro-quo for giving its employees job security (at the expense of the bankrupt airline’s employees) significant enough to allow them to compete with the low cost carriers.""

320 hints at Usairways being the acquiring airline in a U/UAL merger. Maybe .... U plans to exit BK in June. U has all its labor contracts in order, while UAL conts to go around and around on thiers..... RSA has the money?????

 

[North by Northwest]

N by NW,
you should be reminded that DL has eliminated more union jobs than any airline in US history. Just think of all of those Western and Pan Am union cards that got burned just in the past 20 years!

Trav,

I still have my Pan Am Uniform to remind me. ( And Purser wings for what ever it all may be worth on e-bay)
As an ex-"Pan Amer"...( Pan-Am tanked 03DEC91)that was 23 years 2 1/2 months ago. And Eastern went south earlier that same year.

My point is, that DAL FA's do NOT have a union. Therefor, anyone "acquiring them" would NOT have to take their FA's... Which makes them more attractive to take over... or sell... to those that rake in the big bucks at our expense.

re: Pan Am : Been there,Done That
re: NWA & mergers. Been there and Did that too...

N/NW

 

[deltawatch]

No ones making the big bucks at USAirways under the new contracts .... That could be why some on this board think USAirways may be around longer than others.

 

[Rico]

Well, let's be brutally honest now.

History is the best of teachers, and in the past when struggling major carriers (that still retained valuable assets) could not dig their way out of bankruptcy..., It was not a merger that occured, rather it was a sell off of said assets, or assumption of such, right prior to or after that carrier was closed down.

Pan Am, Eastern, and TWA are the best of examples in this case.

Despite what you may think of A320, or what he has to say. The fact remains that while a carrier is in bankruptcy, all bets are off regarding control of your airline's future. That goes for our airline, and any others in (or about to be in) Bankruptcy.

So what that means to us is that we at US Airways should continue to support, whatever needs to be done to help us exit our own reorganization process quickly.

Because..., "Consolidation of Assets" and a "Merger between Airlines" is NOT always the same thing.

 

[767jetz]

I find it interesting that UA employees Fly, Cosmo, & Magsau are back again posting on the US forum.

[post="249223"][/post]​

My, my, my... You really are dense. It has been YEARS now, and you still haven't figured out that the only reason UA employees post here is to put your arrogant posterior back in it's place when you start speculating about your favorite obsession and your hopes that US could somehow be the "surviving entity."

So let's review... How many times have you claimed that UA will be unable to find exit financing? WRONG! How many times have you claimed that UA will require an equity investor? WRONG! How many times have you claimed that UA is unable to come up with a viable business plan? WRONG! How many times did you claim that UA will be unable to resolve the airport bond issue at ORD and DEN? WRONG! How many times did you claim that UA would be unable to meet it's DIP covenants? WRONG AGAIN! How many times have you been told how wrong you are? How many times have you avoided admitting you are wrong?

Well... let's see... We now have 4 interested FINANCIAL INSTITUTONS (not loan sharks) with up to $2.5 billion to support our exit. Guess what... the airport bonds have been resolved at both DEN and ORD.

Try reading this link instead of the one you posted. click here

It says " Bankrupt for two years, United Airlines Inc. has a new role in mind if it can reorganize: industry consolidator." " United, based in Elk Grove Village, Ill., lost $1.6 billion in 2004. But it's primed to be an acquirer because it has the best assets and will have used its bankruptcy to strengthen its finances for mergers, Mr. Tilton said." Interesting how your link seemed to miss those comments.

Sounds like any possible M&A activity between UA and US would NOT result with US being the surving entity, as you like to claim. And by the way... you are not the only one with a jumpseat on your airplane. I had Tilton on my jumpseat twice in the past 3 months, and he laughed at some of your claims! Why would anyone choose the US brand name, when UA is recognized worldwide? Your logic is flawed. Ask anyone in Asia if theyt know who USAirways is.

And since you keep asking, things at UA are just fine. International (read: wide body) flying is increasing. Did you se we are recalling pilots again? How many pilots is US recalling? And why is it that USAirway's First Officers still wear 4 stripes? Are they ashamed of their new position?

Keep dreaming "skippy." Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[Rico]

Hmm, I wonder if anyone overseas knew who the heck United, Delta or American were before they took over what had been Trans World or Pan Am routes 767Jetz..

Doubt it.

Point still stands, While in bankruptcy, any company is in danger of losing control of it's own destiny, despite whatever that company's management desires. Especially those who have been in Bankruptcy for extended periods of time. Judicial protection from outside iinterests only lasts so long.

Thus the reason U needs to get out of BK quickly and correctly, and why UAL and their unions might want to do what is necessary to achieve the same.

Good luck.

 

[USA320Pilot]

B767jetz:

Welcome back...you’re here too!

I find it fascinating that you and your fellow UA colleagues always come to the US board when M&A activity is discussed, whether it’s in the news media or on this board. Why si that?

With all due respect, I never said UA and UA were going to merge, and as I have indicated, I do not want it to happen. However, two weeks ago Bruce Lakefield personally told me that both US and UA were “in playâ€. In addition, there are many, many influential Wall Street individuals who believe both UA and US will not survive, although with US getting more money its odds keep improving. How mcuh additional funds has UA obtained while in bankruptcy?

B767jetz said: : So let's review... How many times have you claimed that UA will be unable to find exit financing? WRONG! How many times have you claimed that UA will require an equity investor? WRONG! How many times have you claimed that UA is unable to come up with a viable business plan? WRONG! How many times did you claim that UA will be unable to resolve the airport bond issue at ORD and DEN? WRONG! How many times did you claim that UA would be unable to meet it's DIP covenants? WRONG AGAIN!â€

USA320Pilot comments: If my memory serves me correctly, none. I have asked rhetorical questions on the topics, especially since David Bronner said he was interested in buying UA assets for US in public interviews. Do you remember how many times Bronner said this? Why would Brooner make these comments if they were not true? Previously Wall Street investment bankers involved in the talks told me about the UCT and then the ICT discussions, and then Dave Siegel finally admitted to me and our crew during a flight of the UCT/ICT talks shortly before he was terminated from US employment.

B767jetz said: “And since you keep asking, things at UA are just fine. International (read: wide body) flying is increasing. Did you se we are recalling pilots again? How many pilots is US recalling? And why is it that USAirway's First Officers still wear 4 stripes? Are they ashamed of their new position?â€

USA320Pilot comments: If you and your colleagues are going to take “jabs†at me, let me ask you a few questions. How much money did UA lose last quarter and did it need a DIP financing waiver? Why is that? Furthermore, How come the so called financiers not identified them self? Every US investor has identified them self? Why the secrecy?

In regard to pilot recalls, I am glad they’re occurring at UA and I wish they would happen at US too.

As to the uniform issue, US Airwyas has former Captains that were downgraded and then fly as an F/O with a Captain’s jacket because the US ALPA contract permits this to occur so the pilot does not have purchase a new uniform coat. The cost is $150 and ALPA negotiated this into the pilot contract to save the employee the purchase price expense. Why is this important to you?

Meanwhile, Tilton is one of the industry’s best cheerleaders and the company may be a surviving business entity, either as a stand-alone carrier or in M&A activity. However, there are venture capitalists, hedge funds, retirement funds, and RSA that may make a competing offer and Rico is right, “While in bankruptcy, any company is in danger of losing control of it's own destiny, despite whatever that company's management desires.â€

At this point, nobody knows how the industry issues will unfold, but one thing is for sure: both UA and US are “in play’.

Regardless, it’s great to have you back. I knew after Tilton’s comments you and your cohorts would venture over to the US board. Isn’t it interesting that many US posters and myself have no interest in the UA board, but that’s not the case for the UA employees. Interesting…

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[767jetz]

Regardless, it’s great to have you back. I knew after Tilton’s comments you and your cohorts would venture over to the US board.

USA320Pilot

[post="249397"][/post]​

You really are a pompus fool, aren't you? It is you who started this thread. As for venturing over here, don't flatter yourself. We happen to read all the boards, UA, US, AA, etc. because we are interested in what goes on in our industry.

You welcome me back as if I had left. Not so. I just don't stick my nose in the business of others. However commenting on my airline, and arrogantly speculating on the fate of my company, is an invitation to me and any other UA employee to venture onto "your" board to point out your ignorance, misinformation, and twisting of the facts.

Did you happen to notice that when you keep your "wise aleck" mouth shut about UA, the UA employees don't comment on your drivel? (We just let your many co workers tear apart your massive loads of BS.)

I know you don't like when others contradict you or prove when you are wrong, but that's your problem... no one esle's.

As for my interest in the fourth stripe of your First Officers, I know many UA captains who were bumped to FO positions on the 747 and 777. They wear 3 stripes, because that is there position. You see, most UA pilots check their arrogance and ego at the front door. We're all in it together, and the number of stripes on our uniform does not indicate a pilot's skill, knowledge or experience. It's just seniority. To most, wearing the 4th stripe as an FO just because you used to be a captain is seen as arrogance and denial and an over active ego. Deny it all you want, but we all know the type. The truth is that it doesn't cost that much to remove a stripe from your jacket. You are using it as an excuse to hold onto the past.

 

[deltawatch]

Until you two realize that you’re nothing more than labor and forget about your stripes, and which cooperate monster you slave for and start working together against the greedy-elite Wall Street gang that wants your pay check your future will continue to be bleak.

 

[Rico]

Yeah, let's stick to the topic and leave the personal stuff outside...

Here is a question for you instead 767Jetz.

UAL management has indicated a desire to shift a portion of United's domestic flying towards affiliate partners. I am curious why you think it is so far fetched that such flying would not be sent towards your domestic code share partner rather than just RJ operators...?

 

[N924PS]

As for my interest in the fourth stripe of your First Officers, I know many UA captains who were bumped to FO positions on the 747 and 777. They wear 3 stripes, because that is there position. You see, most UA pilots check their arrogance and ego at the front door. We're all in it together, and the number of stripes on our uniform does not indicate a pilot's skill, knowledge or experience. It's just seniority. To most, wearing the 4th stripe as an FO just because you used to be a captain is seen as arrogance and denial and an over active ego. Deny it all you want, but we all know the type. The truth is that it doesn't cost that much to remove a stripe from your jacket. You are using it as an excuse to hold onto the past.

[post="249458"][/post]​

[/quote]

I can assure you that the uniform issue that you seem so focused on has nothing to do with a US pilot's ego or a desire to "hold on to the past."
The fact that you would even presume this speaks to your own ego and level of maturity in a rather unflattering way.

US pilots have been in it together for a lot longer than most of you and your bothers and sisters at UA. For better and for worse. Good luck to both UA and US, neither of whom is out of the woods yet.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

deleted the tooth fairy told me (while she was seated next to me last week on the way to BWI) that Siegel was your daddy before he was booted. I said this, so it must be true, right???

 

[Rico]

For better and for worse. Good luck to both UA and US, neither of whom is out of the woods yet

Exactly

 

[North by Northwest]

No matter what color the metal ...they all want us to work for FREEEEEE!