OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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Industry Consolidation?
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
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OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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I'm not interested in talking about United Airlines, except how it relates to US Airways.
However, since htis thread has once again been hijacked I just saw a piece of information that I thought I would post to provide a balanced view.
UA GETS APPROVAL TO EXTEND BANKRUPTCY LOAN:
ARLINGTON (US Airways Today) - UAL Corp.'s United Airlines has reached a deal to etend its debtor-in-possession financing through Dec. 31. United had requested the extension to the end of this year, from mid-year, on a $1 billion loan funding its reorganization. United filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2002 and in March postponed its exit from Chapter 11 to sometime after June 30, while it seeks resolution to pension and creditor issues. The airline is aiming to reduce costs by $5 billion annually.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
However, since htis thread has once again been hijacked I just saw a piece of information that I thought I would post to provide a balanced view.
UA GETS APPROVAL TO EXTEND BANKRUPTCY LOAN:
ARLINGTON (US Airways Today) - UAL Corp.'s United Airlines has reached a deal to etend its debtor-in-possession financing through Dec. 31. United had requested the extension to the end of this year, from mid-year, on a $1 billion loan funding its reorganization. United filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2002 and in March postponed its exit from Chapter 11 to sometime after June 30, while it seeks resolution to pension and creditor issues. The airline is aiming to reduce costs by $5 billion annually.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
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- #33
Yea ok, keep up your delusions of granduer, if you were something you would not be flying a plane, you would be in management like you think you are.
You are not a CCY insider, you are an EMPLOYEE, guess you can't fathom that!
And I only post information that is given to us by the IAM, not phony facts or opinions unlike yourself, you have been proven wrong so many times it is unreal that you come back and keep posting.
By the way it is FOUR months now and we are still waiting for your "painful" clause in the IAM mechanic and related contract?
Do I need to keep going?
You are not a CCY insider, you are an EMPLOYEE, guess you can't fathom that!
And I only post information that is given to us by the IAM, not phony facts or opinions unlike yourself, you have been proven wrong so many times it is unreal that you come back and keep posting.
By the way it is FOUR months now and we are still waiting for your "painful" clause in the IAM mechanic and related contract?
Do I need to keep going?
TheLarkAscending
Veteran
Agreed!Fly said:You see USA320Pilot, the idea is to use bankruptcy to fix the problems, then re-emerge. (As opposed to exiting bankruptcy too early, then re-entering) See?
If only that were really true, there would be fewer blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda threads wasting valuable bandwidth and consuming my time sifting through the garbage to get to the real meat and potato threads.
Omarosa? Is that you?
OP
USA320Pilot
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700UW:
I'm not going to go tit-for-tat with you, however, for clarification I have said that management would like for the IAM to play ball and to cost-effectively conduct maintenance. However, if the IAM elects to not participate in the "Transformation Plan" then the company will implement the "painful" alternative, which I have indicated before.
I do not want to see anybody get hurt, but industry fundamentals have changed forever. September 11, the soft economy, new security costs, the Iraqi war, SARS, and skyrocketing energy prices are all cyclical fundamental problems. However, what is changing the marketplace forever is the enormous LCC power and Internet booking that is dramatically depressing yields.
Last week the US Airways ALPA MEC Officers and their counterparts from other legacy airlines met to discuss our collective problems and I can tell you this…every ALPA network airline MEC knows exactly what is coming to their airline and either a legacy carrier transforms itself to a business enterprise with a competitive cost structure or the airline will fail.
Another words either 700UW is wrong or the Bush Administration and every industry observer, consultant, airline analyst, the ATSB, GECAS, or other informed parties are out to lunch.
The choice is simple: Either every work group participates or as Brooner said the next step in the restructuring will go forward "with or without employees". Therefore, it's every labor group's choice on whether or not they want to participate or be left behind. The train is pulling out of the station and it will be interesting to see who leaves with the train or is left standing at the tracks.
There are no other options...except failure.
Do I like it? Nope, but it’s reality versus a fairy tale.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
I'm not going to go tit-for-tat with you, however, for clarification I have said that management would like for the IAM to play ball and to cost-effectively conduct maintenance. However, if the IAM elects to not participate in the "Transformation Plan" then the company will implement the "painful" alternative, which I have indicated before.
I do not want to see anybody get hurt, but industry fundamentals have changed forever. September 11, the soft economy, new security costs, the Iraqi war, SARS, and skyrocketing energy prices are all cyclical fundamental problems. However, what is changing the marketplace forever is the enormous LCC power and Internet booking that is dramatically depressing yields.
Last week the US Airways ALPA MEC Officers and their counterparts from other legacy airlines met to discuss our collective problems and I can tell you this…every ALPA network airline MEC knows exactly what is coming to their airline and either a legacy carrier transforms itself to a business enterprise with a competitive cost structure or the airline will fail.
Another words either 700UW is wrong or the Bush Administration and every industry observer, consultant, airline analyst, the ATSB, GECAS, or other informed parties are out to lunch.
The choice is simple: Either every work group participates or as Brooner said the next step in the restructuring will go forward "with or without employees". Therefore, it's every labor group's choice on whether or not they want to participate or be left behind. The train is pulling out of the station and it will be interesting to see who leaves with the train or is left standing at the tracks.
There are no other options...except failure.
Do I like it? Nope, but it’s reality versus a fairy tale.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
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OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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Fly:
Fly said: "You see USA320Pilot, the idea is to use bankruptcy to fix the problems, then re-emerge. (As opposed to exiting bankruptcy too early, then re-entering)."
USA320Pilot comments. Agreed.
As recently stated by Dow Jones Newswires, the reason David Bronner and Dave Siegel exited bankruptcy so early was their interest in US Airways acquiring United Airlines or many of its assets, which Bronner publicly commented on in four separate interviews, but that did not happen due to deteriorating fundamentals.
Was it a mistake for US Airways to exit bankruptcy to early? Absolutely and management now understands their mistake, which is why they are trying to fix their mistake with the "Tranformation Plan".
Meanwhile, according to an article that appeard in the Charlotte Observer on May 6, US Airways' pilots, who have emerged as leaders in the effort to save the airline, said they liked what they saw (of the "Transformation Plan") Wednesday. "We are upbeat," said pilot spokesman Jack Stephan. "For a long time this airline has sat sluggishly on the sidelines as the rest of the industry changed. "But the company was emphatic that things can't happen unless a new cost structure is put into place," Stephan said, since reduced fares must be accompanied by reduced costs. "It won't do any good to do one without the other."
Fly, by the way, United ALPA recently met with US Airways ALPA (and other airline ALPA leaders) and your company's pilots are very concerned about further restructuring at United.
By the way, why do you and some of your colleagues frequent the US Airways board so much? For what's its worth, I rarely if ever visit your company's board.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Fly said: "You see USA320Pilot, the idea is to use bankruptcy to fix the problems, then re-emerge. (As opposed to exiting bankruptcy too early, then re-entering)."
USA320Pilot comments. Agreed.
As recently stated by Dow Jones Newswires, the reason David Bronner and Dave Siegel exited bankruptcy so early was their interest in US Airways acquiring United Airlines or many of its assets, which Bronner publicly commented on in four separate interviews, but that did not happen due to deteriorating fundamentals.
Was it a mistake for US Airways to exit bankruptcy to early? Absolutely and management now understands their mistake, which is why they are trying to fix their mistake with the "Tranformation Plan".
Meanwhile, according to an article that appeard in the Charlotte Observer on May 6, US Airways' pilots, who have emerged as leaders in the effort to save the airline, said they liked what they saw (of the "Transformation Plan") Wednesday. "We are upbeat," said pilot spokesman Jack Stephan. "For a long time this airline has sat sluggishly on the sidelines as the rest of the industry changed. "But the company was emphatic that things can't happen unless a new cost structure is put into place," Stephan said, since reduced fares must be accompanied by reduced costs. "It won't do any good to do one without the other."
Fly, by the way, United ALPA recently met with US Airways ALPA (and other airline ALPA leaders) and your company's pilots are very concerned about further restructuring at United.
By the way, why do you and some of your colleagues frequent the US Airways board so much? For what's its worth, I rarely if ever visit your company's board.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
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TheLarkAscending
Veteran
Whether you personally choose to visit other airline boards is completely irrelevant. Your options are to go where you choose to visit and read what you choose to read.USA320Pilot said:
Fly, (as has been repeatedly explained to you because you continue to ask the same ridiculous question over and over) has a habit of going to the main USAviation.com page and under the heading of Message Boards is a sub-heading entitled "Today's Discussions" -- since USAirways happens to be very active, these threads are often the most frequently featured. Fly also happens to have quite a few friends at US, and some that have ties to US -- count me as one of those.
Anyone can read and post here as long as they comply with the rules and regulations set forth by the originators of the site. Can you please quit being such a child about this? PLEASE?!
Here's what I do.....I turn on Internet Explorer and this is my home page USAviation. It doesn't sort by company, it sorts by the most recent post. I just scroll around, checking stuff out. If I find something interesting, I reply to it. I can assure you, I never scroll back up to see which airline it is posted under, I just start typing away. But you already know that, don't you?
Back on topic: Of course there will be consolidation....but I don't think it will include employees. Want to know my un-industry expert, un-Ivy league opinion (doesn't matter if you say "no" cuz I'm typing it right now), it's because the only jobs that should pay decent money are management, pilots and mechanics. (flame shield up and ready to defend)
We turned our jobs into professions. We should have been hired on cheaply, traveled all over the world, and quit. The door should revolve. Not just the flight attendants, but everyone in a non-skilled labor positions. (for those who don't know, I'm a flight attendant...so don't roast me) The job becomes impossible to quit. It's like dating a good looking abusive boyfriend....you like walking around with him but you feel trapped. It's an easy job and we get paid more than it's worth (trust me - most people would rather have a 22 year old bimbo flight attendant rather than the world's most able-bodied 50 year old flight attendant) I'd bet my life on that one. omg, I know you're gonna kill me nowh34r:
We also burn our best customers. What other business consistently does that and prospers? We offer the great fares early and hike the prices for the last minute people (and we all know who they are). The tickets need to be priced in a simpler method. Either the Loehman's method (our price today, our price in 2 weeks, our price in a month, etc) or the Theatre method (preset pricing for certain seats...want the window? It's $xx.xx or the middle? It's $x.xx, etc) Simple! People wouldn't even be angry about getting a middle seat, because that is what they bought. I don't get mad when I go to a play if I'm stuck in nosebleed...because I knew it all along, that's what I paid for. Simplicity! I can bet that these LCC's wouldn't have ever gotten a foothold had this been the pricing method all these years.
My point is, things are going to have to change dramatically, or else. Consolidation will happen, but not necessarily in the way you're probably thinking.
Ok, go ahead, I'm ready
Back on topic: Of course there will be consolidation....but I don't think it will include employees. Want to know my un-industry expert, un-Ivy league opinion (doesn't matter if you say "no" cuz I'm typing it right now), it's because the only jobs that should pay decent money are management, pilots and mechanics. (flame shield up and ready to defend)
We turned our jobs into professions. We should have been hired on cheaply, traveled all over the world, and quit. The door should revolve. Not just the flight attendants, but everyone in a non-skilled labor positions. (for those who don't know, I'm a flight attendant...so don't roast me) The job becomes impossible to quit. It's like dating a good looking abusive boyfriend....you like walking around with him but you feel trapped. It's an easy job and we get paid more than it's worth (trust me - most people would rather have a 22 year old bimbo flight attendant rather than the world's most able-bodied 50 year old flight attendant) I'd bet my life on that one. omg, I know you're gonna kill me now
h34r: We also burn our best customers. What other business consistently does that and prospers? We offer the great fares early and hike the prices for the last minute people (and we all know who they are). The tickets need to be priced in a simpler method. Either the Loehman's method (our price today, our price in 2 weeks, our price in a month, etc) or the Theatre method (preset pricing for certain seats...want the window? It's $xx.xx or the middle? It's $x.xx, etc) Simple! People wouldn't even be angry about getting a middle seat, because that is what they bought. I don't get mad when I go to a play if I'm stuck in nosebleed...because I knew it all along, that's what I paid for. Simplicity! I can bet that these LCC's wouldn't have ever gotten a foothold had this been the pricing method all these years.
My point is, things are going to have to change dramatically, or else. Consolidation will happen, but not necessarily in the way you're probably thinking.
Ok, go ahead, I'm ready
NewHampshire Black Bears
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- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
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USA320Pilot,
Since when does YOUR A-320 have winglets ?????
Since your "handle" is A-320 pilot, show us a pic of an "A-320", NOT an A-330.
NH/BB's
Since when does YOUR A-320 have winglets ?????
Since your "handle" is A-320 pilot, show us a pic of an "A-320", NOT an A-330.
NH/BB's
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
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YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNN!
To all:
Is it really worth even responding to this Cr@p? Anyone who has been around here for any length of time knows a few things...
#1. The predictions and dellusions of this particular person never come true. (Example: remember the months harping on UA's "inability" to resolve Municipal Bond/ 1110/ Pension/ ACA/ etc. ALL of those issues are now resolved.)
#2. The more bleak a certain poster's personal situation is, the LOUDER he beats his UCT drum and claims that all is rosey in his charmed life, he has no regrets, and he really doesn't have any interest in UAL. (yeah... right... that's why he always starts these discussions.)
#3. Even his own fellow co-workers are sick of him. I heard a rumor of fellow US pilots refering to him as "Tokyo Rose!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
USA320Pilot said:
"Or could the chairman of the board decide it is no longer worth it to run an airline and decide that its better to liquidate the company, take the write off, and recover as much of RSA's investment as possible."
767jetz responds:
Now that's the first thing you've said that may actually happen!
Hey Tokyo Rose... I mean USA320pilot... keep on chirping if it makes you feel better. See you on the other side. B)
To all:
Is it really worth even responding to this Cr@p? Anyone who has been around here for any length of time knows a few things...
#1. The predictions and dellusions of this particular person never come true. (Example: remember the months harping on UA's "inability" to resolve Municipal Bond/ 1110/ Pension/ ACA/ etc. ALL of those issues are now resolved.)
#2. The more bleak a certain poster's personal situation is, the LOUDER he beats his UCT drum and claims that all is rosey in his charmed life, he has no regrets, and he really doesn't have any interest in UAL. (yeah... right... that's why he always starts these discussions.)
#3. Even his own fellow co-workers are sick of him. I heard a rumor of fellow US pilots refering to him as "Tokyo Rose!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
USA320Pilot said:
"Or could the chairman of the board decide it is no longer worth it to run an airline and decide that its better to liquidate the company, take the write off, and recover as much of RSA's investment as possible."
767jetz responds:
Now that's the first thing you've said that may actually happen!
Hey Tokyo Rose... I mean USA320pilot... keep on chirping if it makes you feel better. See you on the other side. B)
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
For those who may not have had the time to pick through all the articles, here is a quote from the Chicago Tribune that the poster in question failed to mention in his speculations...
"United Airlines' unsecured creditors committee wants to hire a consulting firm to evaluate the company's board of directors.
The request, revealed in a filing with the court overseeing United's bankruptcy, is a common tactic to ensure the board composition is appropriate, according to United spokeswoman Jean Medina. "We look forward to working with the committee on its due diligence in this regard," she said."
"United Airlines' unsecured creditors committee wants to hire a consulting firm to evaluate the company's board of directors.
The request, revealed in a filing with the court overseeing United's bankruptcy, is a common tactic to ensure the board composition is appropriate, according to United spokeswoman Jean Medina. "We look forward to working with the committee on its due diligence in this regard," she said."
