I'm ready to go AMFA

[AC Tynker]

So everytime a skilled craftsmam wants to get more or what they feel has been earned, the Teamsters call that an "embarasssing demonstration of greed"?

Like I said, you are the best AMFA organizers on these fourms, keep up the great work!

But a worthless unskilled appointed stooge trying to keep his no-working, over paid appointed salary, that is not greed, that is "great industrial unionism". Got it.

LOL, You are getting cards signed by printing threads and/or just sending people here to observe conversations, most of which are by your normal run of the mill AMTs with no official Union oriented title. I forgot about Bob, I'll bet he does work wonders for your pitch if you can convince them he is the face of TWU (You need to photochop Bobs head onto one of those 8-Ball predictors with someone shaking him asking the Same question over and over and answer bubbles with Different answers every time lol) and Chuck just being plain angry about everything. What makes you think that type person wouldn't sign a IBT card just going off friendly debates or heated, casual conversations or pretty professionally printed full multi page brochures that have a handful of their peers with quoted statements? One more thing, you may want to go sell some blood for the added expense of Color and 40 lbs of Brochure paper being $20 instead of $12 for the normal multi purpose 40 lbs. That is unless AMFA gave you a $50 gift card/expense account, if so then I stand Corrected.

 

[Bob Owens]

AMFA was so good at NW that the DL AMTs jumped at the chance to get represented by AMFA...NOT! They looked at AMFA and their record and said thanks, but no thanks. No union is better than AMFA.


"The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) has agreed to a Transition Commitment with Delta Airlines that will bring the Mechanic and Related Employees that we represent at the former Northwest Airlines to pay, seniority, and benefit parity with their Delta counterparts. AMFA believes that this commitment from Delta will bring this work group to a single carrier determination.
"AMFA would like to thank all those that submitted authorization cards during our card drive to represent the combined work group. However, the showing of interest has come short of the required number needed to file for representation. To prolong the single transportation system determination any longer would be a disservice to those that we currently represent at the former Northwest Airlines.

http://aviationblog....so-its-me.html/

It seems that the workers at Delta simply have the attitude that "no union is better than having a union", not just AMFA. Didnt the TWU spend over $2 million trying to organize Delta workers a few years back? What about the AFA? They didnt do too good either. And that was AFTER changing the rules to make it easier to get a vote!! If we compare mechanics compensation at Delta to unionized AA is it any wonder why they dont feel they need a union? Hey come join the TWU and take a $20,000 a year paycut, not including the dues. not to worry, with all the extra money Delta will hire more mechanics so you wont get lonely in poverty!! Its pathetic what we've done, its a disgrace to the labor movement.

 

[Bob Owens]

Climbing in bed with AA Corporate and the ARSA is defending our craft? No that's collaborating with the enemy bud.

Thats what you do on a daily basis isnt it?

 

[Overspeed]

Thats what you do on a daily basis isnt it?

Look at you Bob popping off. First your a TWU Treasurer and then got booted by the Int'l with Chuckie, then you cheer on an AMFA card drive, then get voted back in, and then pop off again and get spanked by Little but this time you smartened up a bit. You were quick to jump back behind the line when Little publicly rebuked you and all of a sudden you are the "change from within" guy.

Bob, you jump in to anybody's bed who will sleep with you! HA!

 

[1AA]

Look at you Bob popping off. First your a TWU Treasurer and then got booted by the Int'l with Chuckie, then you cheer on an AMFA card drive, then get voted back in, and then pop off again and get spanked by Little but this time you smartened up a bit. You were quick to jump back behind the line when Little publicly rebuked you and all of a sudden you are the "change from within" guy.

Bob, you jump in to anybody's bed who will sleep with you! HA!

You seem to know everything about Bob and Chuck in detail. You just confirmed to me that you are a TWU International stooge. Great job. Now tell us how we should still have faith in the TWU. Tell us how we should still support the TWU. Tell us why we should trust you and your top stooge International officers. Go ahead because we need more AMFA support from you. Every time you post some gibberish and is proven wrong more cards get signed. Go ahead post away Mr. Overspeed.

 

[Overspeed]

You seem to know everything about Bob and Chuck in detail. You just confirmed to me that you are a TWU International stooge. Great job. Now tell us how we should still have faith in the TWU. Tell us how we should still support the TWU. Tell us why we should trust you and your top stooge International officers. Go ahead because we need more AMFA support from you. Every time you post some gibberish and is proven wrong more cards get signed. Go ahead post away Mr. Overspeed.

Okay, whatever you say. Proven wrong? Did Bob and Chuck not get removed? Did Bob not post that it was time for another card drive in 2004? Did the not the Little letter chastising Bob go out? Did Bob not send out a letter shortly thereafter to his members that he was now for "change from within?" The answers to these questions are yes and everyone of those facts have been on this website.

Read my man, just read.

 

[Rogallo]

Look at you Bob popping off. First your a TWU Treasurer and then got booted by the Int'l with Chuckie, then you cheer on an AMFA card drive, then get voted back in, and then pop off again and get spanked by Little but this time you smartened up a bit. You were quick to jump back behind the line when Little publicly rebuked you and all of a sudden you are the "change from within" guy.

Bob, you jump in to anybody's bed who will sleep with you! HA!

Weak Dude. Your grasping..!!

 

[WNMECH]

I have something to say here.

If AA goes AMFA, they will not only control their own fate but also the fate of AMFA itself.

By sheer numbers AA mechanics will be able to vote AA reps to most leadership positions and take control of AMFA.

While I don't want to see SWA mechanics lose any power, I would like to see you guys free from the same crap we had with the teamsters.

Look, if you are ready to govern yourselves then sign the cards and get it over with. It is really quite easy.

But all this back and forth BS doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

One last thing. All this junk about AMFA did this and that, and would do this and that.......just forget it. You would control everything you do, AMFA won't tell you what is best for you. You will make your own decisions.

If your guys are not ready to run your own union and determine your own future without a bunch of people who have never been AMTs telling you what to do, then just give it up.

But I think it would be great to see you guys free from all those TWU shackles.

 

[Anomaly]

Anomaly you claim everything just because you read something. Your not even a mech for SWA yet you claim you know everything that happens here. Again you are completely wrong. We were not in mediated talks. There was no mediator present. It was in fact company and lead nego (at that time) Sam in a hotel room making behind closed doors deals. This is where the retro was givin away in "behind closed doors deals" I was here when it took place, I do believe I have more first hand information than you reading up on things.
Now since you claim to be so versed on other airliners issues-try indulging us with the few times it happend at CAL prior to the merger with UAL, where they too were represented--oh gee, by the very same local 19. You are wrong again Anomaly, to this day I have friends that are in the union now that was in these nego's we are talking about at SWA with the back door dealing teamsters. It was in fact done. The teamsters even admitted to this later (after contract was settled) This was one of the many items on the list that got the teamsters fired from SWA in a record 2 wk card drive. Again, this meeting had NOTHING to do with a mediator. And as you claim (once again wrong as usual) there was no 3rd party in the hotel room with Sam, it was Sam and company and that's it... You also claim that we are calling this a back door deal just because we didn't get a reto'd pd lunch. AGAIN you are wrong. This was a back door deal dumb a$$. And you want to call it a misunderstanding, funny, that's exactly what the teamsters were calling it until they finally admitted it after the fact.
Anomaly every post you post always gets proven wrong. There has only been one with a partial truth. Keep up the good work for your teamsters, your doing great...

I do not know who Sam is. I do know a lead negotiator named Clacy who apparently was indeed present at the meeting in question. I heard he was in SFO several weeks back, so I found him to ask him about this issue personally. It was the first time he and I met face to face although I had written to him several times. I do not believe anybody knows that I am on this site so why would he lie to me? He told me very specifically that SWA was in mediation at the time and there were no private talks about this with the company. He told me what I explained in my earlier post. It does sound more logical than your made up theory about "Sam" and the back door deals.

As an afterthought, the committee wanted paid lunch. Clacy got it for you. You wanted retro on the paid lunch. He did not get that. You decided to crucify him for that failure, and made up a story that he made a back door deal to deny it to you. There was no investigation? No DFR? No complaint with the Departmant of Labor? Just a story about back door deals and big foot. OK SWAMT.

By the way, you claim to have first hand knowledge of these issues but then rely on "friends who were there" to provide your mixed facts. Who do you work for....really??

 

[WNMECH]

Sam Chandiramani
IBT negotiator.
He was the man in charge of all our contract negotiations back then.

 

[WNMECH]

Clacy Griswold.
His name appears in the group of signatures in the back of the last contract that the IBT had their hands in.
It is fifth down the list.
Sam is second.

Clacy does not appear in the contract before that.
Sam is the lone IBT signature on many LOAs and was always lead negotiator.

 

[WNMECH]

SWAMT is not lying.
For me, memories fade.
But we never trusted the teamsters.
Our local was in trusteeship due to corruption.
Union meetings were a joke where we never got straight answers from teamsters.
All negotiations were BEHIND CLOSED DOOR DEALS, so I don't know why you are arguing over just one deal.

We were a small group to them in a large truckers union. They didn't care what we had to say.
What broke that camels back was when the IBT told us union dues were going up.
With the poor representation we had, we said "hell no".
They raised dues anyway and we said "you are out of here".

 

[Anomaly]

SWAMT is not lying.
For me, memories fade.
But we never trusted the teamsters.
Our local was in trusteeship due to corruption.
Union meetings were a joke where we never got straight answers from teamsters.
All negotiations were BEHIND CLOSED DOOR DEALS, so I don't know why you are arguing over just one deal.

We were a small group to them in a large truckers union. They didn't care what we had to say.
What broke that camels back was when the IBT told us union dues were going up.
With the poor representation we had, we said "hell no".
They raised dues anyway and we said "you are out of here".

Finally, someone who seems to have some facts.

What "back door" deals were made? Now I am not talking about behind closed door deals, because believe it or not, that is how MOST successful negotiations are conducted. In private.

When SWAMT speaks of back door deals, I naturally think of illegal deals that benefited the negotiator in question. Be it Sam, Clacy, or the Teamsters, were there and dealings that you KNEW of that benefited any union leader at the expense of the members?? This would be corruption and should have been investigated by the DOL following a complaint. Was there ever an investigation done? Was there a complaint filed??

Back door deals are VERY different from behind closed door proceedings. One is illegal, the other beneficial.

AMFA never raised our dues. Instead, some Locals would have special dues increases to cover the expenses of arbitration for other airlines. Of course it came down to a vote. The problem is, once you voted no, your brothers lost out with no day in court. You get what you pay for. It costs more to be in the Teamsters than it did in amfa.

We have made more money with the Teamsters than with amfa. Simply put, with amfa at UAL we lost money. With the Teamsters we have gained.

How can YOU argue with that?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I do not know who Sam is. I do know a lead negotiator named Clacy who apparently was indeed present at the meeting in question. I heard he was in SFO several weeks back, so I found him to ask him about this issue personally. It was the first time he and I met face to face although I had written to him several times. I do not believe anybody knows that I am on this site so why would he lie to me? He told me very specifically that SWA was in mediation at the time and there were no private talks about this with the company. He told me what I explained in my earlier post. It does sound more logical than your made up theory about "Sam" and the back door deals.

As an afterthought, the committee wanted paid lunch. Clacy got it for you. You wanted retro on the paid lunch. He did not get that. You decided to crucify him for that failure, and made up a story that he made a back door deal to deny it to you. There was no investigation? No DFR? No complaint with the Departmant of Labor? Just a story about back door deals and big foot. OK SWAMT.

By the way, you claim to have first hand knowledge of these issues but then rely on "friends who were there" to provide your mixed facts. Who do you work for....really??

Okay, so in your own words...

"...He told me very specifically that SWA was in mediation at the time and there were no private talks about this with the company..."


And now, CEO Parkers testimony at the Arbitration over this issue....

"... CEO Parker testified that the paid lunch was negotiated, and agreed to, in
private negotiations with Chandiramani and Griswold, which took place in his hotel room
on August 29, 2002. (Parker, Tr. 182, 190)..."


Looks like Clacy lied to you.

As for the rest of your post....

"...As an afterthought, the committee wanted paid lunch. Clacy got it for you. You wanted retro on the paid lunch. He did not get that. You decided to crucify him for that failure, and made up a story that he made a back door deal to deny it to you..."


As an afterthought? Again, you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about.

Again, from the Paid Lunch Arbitration....

"...The mechanics rejected the May 8 tentative agreement by over 97%. (Tr. 32-33,
62, 123). Whereas the rejected tentative agreement did provide for “full retroactive pay,”
it did not provide for a paid lunch for the graveyard shift. (Tr. 33, 61-62, 123, 136). In
returning the Teamster negotiating committee to the bargaining table, the membership
instructed the negotiators to obtain this contractual amendment.
(Patrick, Tr. 80)..."

Looks like a bit more than an "afterthought"

As for your protestations that there was no Investigation etc etc etc......well yeah......the SWA mechanics had obviously had enough.....they didn't bother, they just threw the teamsters out.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

We have made more money with the Teamsters than with amfa. Simply put, with amfa at UAL we lost money. With the Teamsters we have gained.

How can YOU argue with that?

How can you argue with that?

Easy - You don't, Its rhetorical nonsense.

AMFA took over in bankruptcy, and was never in section 6 negotiations at UAL,

But you go on comparing apples to hub-caps if it makes you feel better.