Alaska contract preamble

[unionguy1]

I am not associated nor do I support the democratic party. I am an independent. I do live in a state that is controlled by the GOP and I see, hear and read what they have done, do and are doing to give tax money to corporate America while hurting the middle class of America. I also grew up in the second most liberal state in the country. There have been two times in U.S. history where the GOP controlled all three houses in Washington. The first was Herbert Hoover that brought on the Great Depression and the second was W. Bush that brought on the mess we are in now. This is documented history, but I am sure Fox News would have a different take on it. That being said, I have no illusions that anyone in Washington is looking out for me or has my back. I do realize that the GOP considers me the enemy since I am a member of a union and work for hourly pay. I do not wish to make political statements or try to push either party’s agenda. I feel that as a working man in America that I have no party. I am also not that great at putting my thoughts into words, but the point I have been trying to make (not anyone’s fault for not understanding but mine) is that we have lost something that, to me, was very valuable. Right now our pension is frozen. I could be terminated in the future and it could disappear for all we know. Ask the people from Pan Am where their pension went. I am trying to say that, for me at least, retirement is now out of the question. I am sure that I am not the only one. I did not put a lot into the 401K during my AA career as I had kids and couldn’t afford to. After 2003 I really couldn’t afford to so I have not accumulated much money in mine. I don’t think I am the lone ranger here either. World Traveler confuses me when he says that pensions were for people who spent their whole career in one place. I have been here 27 plus years and others have been here longer. How long do you have to be here to have it considered a career? If you look at the seniority list the majority has spent their entire working career at AA. Are pensions expensive for companies? Yes they are. Will Horton and company get a pension when they retire? Yes. Will Jim Little and company get a pension? Yes they will. I do understand the idea that the 401K is mine and can’t be taken away and I do understand that the pension was held over our heads for a long time. But in my opinion trading a defined pension plan for a lousy 5.5% company match 401K was not a fair or smart trade. Especially when you consider that AA will put 14% into the pilot’s 401K with no input from pilots required. But I guess what I am really trying to say that for older TWU employees that have had the pension they counted on frozen (or terminated) that our retirement has been terminated. Younger workers can accumulate some money in their 401K over many years. Will it be enough for them to retire? Time will tell but my gut tells me no. If any of this makes me a liberal and a conspiracy theorist then so be it. I can live with that. But I also value your opinion and enjoy your posts. I agree with you on most occasions as well.

Dadgum son, well said.

Kind Regards,
Harvey West

 

[Bob Owens]

One point I would like to make is that the pilots do not have to put in a penny to get their 14%. We get nothing unless we put in our 5.5%.

They match up to 5.5%, so if you put in 1% thats all they will match. Keep in mind that since our pay is the worst in the industry we also have the worst 401K match in the industry.

5.5% of $70.497 (AA PAY with Holidays) is only $3,877
5.5% of $83.000 (UAL Pay with Holidays) is $4565


40 hour FT with AA (8hrs straight, 32 OT)= $1762.98 that would add $ 96.96
40 hour FT at UAL (40 hrs 1.75X)= $2356, that would add $ 129.58
So for the same field trip a guy at UAL makes $625.62 more than an AA guy.

 

[chris perry]

They match up to 5.5%, so if you put in 1% thats all they will match. Keep in mind that since our pay is the worst in the industry we also have the worst 401K match in the industry.

5.5% of $70.497 (AA PAY with Holidays) is only $3,877
5.5% of $83.000 (UAL Pay with Holidays) is $4565


40 hour FT with AA (8hrs straight, 32 OT)= $1762.98 that would add $ 96.96
40 hour FT at UAL (40 hrs 1.75X)= $2356, that would add $ 129.58
So for the same field trip a guy at UAL makes $625.62 more than an AA guy.

That's exactly why I don't do field trips anymore!!!!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

They match up to 5.5%, so if you put in 1% thats all they will match. Keep in mind that since our pay is the worst in the industry we also have the worst 401K match in the industry.

5.5% of $70.497 (AA PAY with Holidays) is only $3,877
5.5% of $83.000 (UAL Pay with Holidays) is $4565


40 hour FT with AA (8hrs straight, 32 OT)= $1762.98 that would add $ 96.96
40 hour FT at UAL (40 hrs 1.75X)= $2356, that would add $ 129.58
So for the same field trip a guy at UAL makes $625.62 more than an AA guy.

Thanks Bob. A point well made. Also WT assumes our pension will not be terminated. So when it is terminated....... Notice I said when..... Do we get a payment from AA to make up for the terminated pension? I thought not. So let's just drink some more koolAid and bet that AA will not terminate the pension just because they can. Will it take another BK filing? Maybe but they have already proven you don't have to be bankrupt to file. So we can get the full Monte with a terminated, underfunded pension and the lowest matching and lowest performing 401K in the industry. But it is hard for WT to understand I guess. Oh yeah, a friend of mine who worked for Pan Am said not to trust anyone who says just because the pension is terminated doesn't mean you'll get less. His pension from Pan Am is $178 per month. That won't pay the greens fee at WT's country club.

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks Bob. A point well made. Also WT assumes our pension will not be terminated. So when it is terminated....... Notice I said when..... Do we get a payment from AA to make up for the terminated pension? I thought not. So let's just drink some more koolAid and bet that AA will not terminate the pension just because they can. Will it take another BK filing? Maybe but they have already proven you don't have to be bankrupt to file. So we can get the full Monte with a terminated, underfunded pension and the lowest matching and lowest performing 401K in the industry. But it is hard for WT to understand I guess. Oh yeah, a friend of mine who worked for Pan Am said not to trust anyone who says just because the pension is terminated doesn't mean you'll get less. His pension from Pan Am is $178 per month. That won't pay the greens fee at WT's country club.

I share your concerns as to the fate of the pensions, especially if there is a merger with USAIR, why would the new company carry all that liability for the workers of the company they aquired?

From what we were told if your pension was under $45k you should not see a difference between a frozen vs terminated pension, (except that when terminated the date would be rolled back to Novemeber of 2011 so you would lose two years instead of one where you get no pension accrual whatsoever) but that story changed as well, hard to get a definite answer . The fact that Pan Am liquidated and it would have been hard for the PBGC to recover funds from Pan Am may have had something to do with the pathetic payments they will see. IIRC some Judge authorized diverting money, to the tune of a million dollars , to pay bonuses to the executives who jumped on baord during the final days. Money that should have gone to the pensions.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You are right on, Bob.
Pan Am liquidated when the PBGC had a whole less ability to seek recovery and thus they took whatever and took the difference between the limits of PBGC insurance and what the employees were owed from the employees since they could not recover from the company.

I have indeed said, OldGuy, that PBGC insurance will not replace everything that was owed, including the difference in when you can begin collecting your pension.
I have worked w/ former employees of Pan Am and know what little they got.... remember also that Pan Am was in trouble for years and had undoubtedly gone to all kinds of lengths to reduce their pension funding as any nearly insolvent company would do... but I honestly don't know the details.
PA was literally on the verge of collapse many times; AA has not been.

It is indeed possible that AA's pensions could be terminated, but only if AA is no longer a surviving entity. It is very possible that some exec could manipulate the rules so that AA could sell its assets to another company and claim that AA no longer exists; but I am certain the PBGC would scrutinize any such transaction and fight to keep AA's obligation to its pensions. I suppose it is possible that AA could fall far enough that its assets would be such a small part of a future acquiring company and thus be free to terminate its pensions but that would appear to be years down the road.
I really don't think you have anything to worry about.

Please send me a copy of my membership card to the country club... and let me know the address as well. I am clearly not enjoying the benefits of this country club that I apparently belong to.