I'm ready to go AMFA

[odie01]

All,



After talking on the conference call with Don Videtich, here is the latest information:



First understand that the original email was to reveal what the company is trying to do, nothing has been signed and agreed to at this time for Title I.



As for the testing of people that have to go to type 8 work, Don agreed that you are not required to test when bumping into type 8 work.



Concerning the moving of shops to DFW/DWH and moving the people from the shop with the work, Don’s response was “No way in hell, not on my watch”. He agreed that is a direct violation of the agreement and cannot be done.



As far as the A25 test is concerned, Don took that as an item for him to do further research into the matter to ensure a fair test is administered. President Pike did ask about the possibility of getting the test waived, Don said he would look into it but it wasn’t something that he felt would be likely to happen due to this being a very political issue for the line station presidents.



A large amount of discussion was had revolving around the issue of how to do the RIF and whether or not a special deal should be made concerning TAESL. The consciences was that the contract already establishes how a RIF is to be done and no deals should be made. To try and make a special deal would only create more problems than they solve.



Don stated that he made note of all the concerns and would address them with the rest of the RIF Committee members. He wanted us to understand that the first meeting was to get the talks started, that just because the company may have stated something during the meeting as to how they wanted to do anything, does not mean that is how things will ultimately be done.



We will keep a close eye on the matter and keep you updated as new information is available.



Respectfully,



KP

 

[TWU informer]

I am a AMFA supporter here in the west at "Sand Castle Central". The comment gets made to me is people like AMFA but they feel they have no "Teeth" as far as it comes to bargaining and lobby power with goverment. Can anyone help provide a rebutle to this statement.

My hope is in the event of the merger. That AA has secured AMFA for there representation and have to vote on which union represents the new AA. You now dam well that the IAM is puching US Airways to get a new contract before the merger

Simple and short answer.

When the APFA Flight Attendants of American Airlines left the TWU and formed an independent union, the APFA had zero members and zero dollars.

When the APA Pilots of American Airlines left the ALPA and formed an independent union, the APA had zero members and zero dollars.

This idea that a massive union with dollars for politics equls success and strength is nothing more than a lie, and the only BS that the Teamsters can make stick with members that do not know better.

The APFA and APA only represent thier respective groups at American Airlines, no other employee groups belong, no other airline's employees are in these unions. And they seem to be doing just as well and any mega-union with millions of dollars.

 

[odie01]

Concerning the moving of shops to DFW/DWH and moving the people from the shop with the work, Don’s response was “No way in hell, not on my watch”. He agreed that is a direct violation of the agreement and cannot be done

After tomorrow what leg do we have to stand on without art 42 and open language?
We need to "Fight Like Hell" lol

 

[trentrb211]

All,



After talking on the conference call with Don Videtich, here is the latest information:



First understand that the original email was to reveal what the company is trying to do, nothing has been signed and agreed to at this time for Title I.



As for the testing of people that have to go to type 8 work, Don agreed that you are not required to test when bumping into type 8 work.



Concerning the moving of shops to DFW/DWH and moving the people from the shop with the work, Don’s response was “No way in hell, not on my watch”. He agreed that is a direct violation of the agreement and cannot be done.



As far as the A25 test is concerned, Don took that as an item for him to do further research into the matter to ensure a fair test is administered. President Pike did ask about the possibility of getting the test waived, Don said he would look into it but it wasn’t something that he felt would be likely to happen due to this being a very political issue for the line station presidents.



A large amount of discussion was had revolving around the issue of how to do the RIF and whether or not a special deal should be made concerning TAESL. The consciences was that the contract already establishes how a RIF is to be done and no deals should be made. To try and make a special deal would only create more problems than they solve.



Don stated that he made note of all the concerns and would address them with the rest of the RIF Committee members. He wanted us to understand that the first meeting was to get the talks started, that just because the company may have stated something during the meeting as to how they wanted to do anything, does not mean that is how things will ultimately be done.



We will keep a close eye on the matter and keep you updated as new information is available.



Respectfully,



KP

 

[Anomaly]

I am a AMFA supporter here in the west at "Sand Castle Central". The comment gets made to me is people like AMFA but they feel they have no "Teeth" as far as it comes to bargaining and lobby power with goverment. Can anyone help provide a rebutle to this statement.

My hope is in the event of the merger. That AA has secured AMFA for there representation and have to vote on which union represents the new AA. You now dam well that the IAM is puching US Airways to get a new contract before the merger

There is no rebuttal. Quite simply, amfa has NO teeth when it comes to bargaining. The constitution and structure makes it very difficult for the companies to take them serious. Also, they have NO lobby power with the government. The lobbyist employed by amfa spends most of the paid time lobbying an office to simply make an appointment. This is what I learned as a former amfa member.

 

[TWU informer]

There is no rebuttal. Quite simply, amfa has NO teeth when it comes to bargaining. The constitution and structure makes it very difficult for the companies to take them serious. Also, they have NO lobby power with the government. The lobbyist employed by amfa spends most of the paid time lobbying an office to simply make an appointment. This is what I learned as a former amfa member.

That is strange, a previous Business Agent from the Teamsters who is at Southwest told us a different version last Saturday.
He was a fromer Teamsters BA, removed from his positiion for disclosing negotiations details to the membership and now an AMFA member, and your story and his are light years apart.

I wonder why?

 

[Anomaly]

That is strange, a previous Business Agent from the Teamsters who is at Southwest told us a different version last Saturday.
He was a fromer Teamsters BA, removed from his positiion for disclosing negotiations details to the membership and now an AMFA member, and your story and his are light years apart.

I wonder why?

Maybe because he was fired and now has an ax to grind? When you are buying a car, do you do the final negotiations in the main sales room with all other car purchasers? Or do you step in to a quiet cubical to negotiate your own deal? Think about it. The amfa system is like negotiating in an auditorium. Businesses simply do not wish to operate that way. Find one that accepts this notion and ask them to post on this account.

By the way TWU Informer, months back you promised to disclose relevant SECRET information regarding the NWA strike and the Teamsters. At the time you "claimed" you could not share just yet but were waiting for a special moment.

Have we reached that moment yet? Was this just another one of your stories?

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe because he was fired and now has an ax to grind? When you are buying a car, do you do the final negotiations in the main sales room with all other car purchasers? Or do you step in to a quiet cubical to negotiate your own deal? Think about it. The amfa system is like negotiating in an auditorium. Businesses simply do not wish to operate that way. Find one that accepts this notion and ask them to post on this account.

By the way TWU Informer, months back you promised to disclose relevant SECRET information regarding the NWA strike and the Teamsters. At the time you "claimed" you could not share just yet but were waiting for a special moment.

Have we reached that moment yet? Was this just another one of your stories?

Just check out chapmion air teamsters pilots flying for NWA during the AMFA strike, you will see it there.

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe because he was fired and now has an ax to grind? When you are buying a car, do you do the final negotiations in the main sales room with all other car purchasers? Or do you step in to a quiet cubical to negotiate your own deal? Think about it. The amfa system is like negotiating in an auditorium. Businesses simply do not wish to operate that way. Find one that accepts this notion and ask them to post on this account.

Yes, he fired from the business agent job because he told the membership what was taking place in Reamsters "secret negotiations" at Southwest. And I don't mind one bit helping him grind that axe now. Why is axe grinding bad, that is all you have been doing since you arrived...

...grinding an axe against AMFA.

Is another one of those industrial union ideas? "Do as the industrial unionist says, not as the indsutrial unionist does"?

So you admit that the Reamsters will negotiated "in secret", just like the TWU, and that the Reamsters do this because that is way the "business" wants it? So the Reamsters appease the companies. not the members. It is all clear now thanks.

Man you are so much better at pointing out the flaws with the Reamsters than I am, I have made 5000 business cards to get members to come here and read. You are the pro.

 

[AC Tynker]

Yes, he fired from the business agent job because he told the membership what was taking place in Reamsters "secret negotiations" at Southwest. And I don't mind one bit helping him grind that axe now. Why is axe grinding bad, that is all you have been doing since you arrived...

...grinding an axe against AMFA.

Is another one of those industrial union ideas? "Do as the industrial unionist says, not as the indsutrial unionist does"?

So you admit that the Reamsters will negotiated "in secret", just like the TWU, and that the Reamsters do this because that is way the "business" wants it? So the Reamsters appease the companies. not the members. It is all clear now thanks.

Man you are so much better at pointing out the flaws with the Reamsters than I am, I have made 5000 business cards to get members to come here and read. You are the pro.

Grinding an axe as Anomaly referred to I believe equates to traveling to Informational meetings in formal settings somewhat campaigning against another entity does it not ? Anomaly has simply offered his perspective on a airline industry driven discussion board, engaging in casual discussion. I would venture to guess there is a big difference between the two.

I didn't see any new information about the way the Unions negotiate in his post either for you to point out for your business cards usage. I guess you should probably include a large font for a signature banner on them saying "Brought to you by Captain Obvious, your Industrial Union Informer".

 

[767 mechanic]

Maybe because he was fired and now has an ax to grind? When you are buying a car, do you do the final negotiations in the main sales room with all other car purchasers? Or do you step in to a quiet cubical to negotiate your own deal? Think about it. The amfa system is like negotiating in an auditorium. Businesses simply do not wish to operate that way. Find one that accepts this notion and ask them to post on this account.

By the way TWU Informer, months back you promised to disclose relevant SECRET information regarding the NWA strike and the Teamsters. At the time you "claimed" you could not share just yet but were waiting for a special moment.

Have we reached that moment yet? Was this just another one of your stories?

I do not have a problem negotiating in the sales room as you say because the membership is buying that car as a group not as an individual. So therefore the membership should be able to listen to the negotiation process. If it were to remain secret,why would you put a contract book out. The reason that the company wants it that way is so that they can help the industrial unions sell out the members and make there backdoor deals.

 

[Anomaly]

I do not have a problem negotiating in the sales room as you say because the membership is buying that car as a group not as an individual. So therefore the membership should be able to listen to the negotiation process. If it were to remain secret,why would you put a contract book out. The reason that the company wants it that way is so that they can help the industrial unions sell out the members and make there backdoor deals.

What backdoor deals? Do you mean getting the company to off set your Local expenses by up to 1 million dollars? (That way you can have more money to pay off the National Director). Yup, amfa did that.

The membership is part of the process and votes on the finished product. Here at UAL the Teamsters brought back a contract that they new (or at least should have known) would be turned down. We had some very decent negotiators in the rank and file team that new the right thing to do. When the company gave an offer that was supposedly the best they could do, the negotiation team brought it o the membership for a vote even though many of them turned it down themselves.

It is my personal belief that having observers and open negotiations tells the company that there is simply no faith in the union. Not necessarily a proper show of power.

 

[swamt]

Simple and short answer.

When the APFA Flight Attendants of American Airlines left the TWU and formed an independent union, the APFA had zero members and zero dollars.

When the APA Pilots of American Airlines left the ALPA and formed an independent union, the APA had zero members and zero dollars.

This idea that a massive union with dollars for politics equls success and strength is nothing more than a lie, and the only BS that the Teamsters can make stick with members that do not know better.

The APFA and APA only represent thier respective groups at American Airlines, no other employee groups belong, no other airline's employees are in these unions. And they seem to be doing just as well and any mega-union with millions of dollars.

Please do not forget a direct relation to AMFA. SWA fired the teamsters, they stole all the locals moneys that belonged to the membership, so YES AMFA at SWA started out with zero dollars as well. After 9 short years of AMFA we have well over 1.2 mil in the bank for JUST loc 11, with several more in long term investments and accounts for nego's, arbitrations, ect... When the teamsters were fired they had, are you ready, a whopping 50K in the bank for our local 19. Once we got rid of the currupt and theivery teamsters out of our funds, all of a sudden we have millions with a much, much smaller amount of members.
It's all out there for all you folks to research it. This is why AMFA hides nothing, it's all available to anyone as public records. No other union is as transparent as AMFA.

 

[swamt]

There is no rebuttal. Quite simply, amfa has NO teeth when it comes to bargaining. The constitution and structure makes it very difficult for the companies to take them serious. Also, they have NO lobby power with the government. The lobbyist employed by amfa spends most of the paid time lobbying an office to simply make an appointment. This is what I learned as a former amfa member.

Once again you are full of sh!t and your post makes no sence.
If AMFA didn't have any teeth, explain how and why AMFA has the 2 best contracts in the industry right now.
The company takes AMFA very serious. BTW- how the F do you know how serious the companies are taking AMFA at the carriers they represet. I can see why, as you state yourself, that you learned as an AMFA member that a company does not take you serious, it is very very clear.
AMFA has plenty of lobby power. AMFA is called upon first by the gov for their expertise.

Anomaly; how is your current union doing for you and it's members currently? Well, let's see. They lost all the protections for members as well as lost article 42. Where AMFA successfully gained protection at United in 1113 court proccess, as well as Alaska and gained protections at SWA.
Let's see,,,,,,, TWU has kept you guys under the conssesions since 2003. Here we are 10 years later and yet again more conssesions, rifs, lay-offs, and ripples thru-out the mechs ranks. There is more and more, but I must stop here to allow you to keep posting, so we can all prove you wrong yet again. Gotta love this stuff!!!

 

[swamt]

Maybe because he was fired and now has an ax to grind? When you are buying a car, do you do the final negotiations in the main sales room with all other car purchasers? Or do you step in to a quiet cubical to negotiate your own deal? Think about it. The amfa system is like negotiating in an auditorium. Businesses simply do not wish to operate that way. Find one that accepts this notion and ask them to post on this account.

By the way TWU Informer, months back you promised to disclose relevant SECRET information regarding the NWA strike and the Teamsters. At the time you "claimed" you could not share just yet but were waiting for a special moment.

Have we reached that moment yet? Was this just another one of your stories?

I can post one for you. The AT boys made the teamsters allow for observers at the SLI nego. First time teamsters have ever done it, EVER. The AT membership got to see the teamsters just comepletely fall apart and lose money and time from the AT guys. They would hav lost even more if the teamster continued down the path that their dumb-a$$ attorney was taking them. Then they forced the teamsters to vote on the final one.