IBEW update for the week of October 21

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
Just left work in PHL today. I hope there isnt a time frame for the cards. It takes time. PIT guys in phl are so scared to sign. Serveral PHL guys had huge arguments with PIT guys about what has the IAM done for you??? They are shutting down PIT and they still wont sign. Im tired or hearing about that JUNK pension they are going to lose. I have another question. If the IAM is in bed with the Co. and both sides will submit there finally paperwork on the COC whos to say that the IAM wont fight hard for us on the COC and not submit a fighting battle for the COC an we lose.

Zone 2, this is a war so keep your head up and look straight ahead.
first off, there are alot of solid guys in PIT. It's taking some time to work though some of these issues since the IAM has pumped so much smoke into the room. Guys have legit concerns. Nobody is saying that they like the IAM, NOBODY. That's a good thing because we don't have to spend time talking about how the IAM is screwing people over. People arleady know that.
The IAM already knows this too, that's why the IAM isn't standing on what they did, they are just telling workers everywhere how they are going to lose the COC, pension, contract, etc if you divorce them. It's almost like they are wearing a wife beater Tshirt when they say this.

The truth of the matter is that nobody will lose a thing, NOTHING, and it will just take some time to unpack these issues.

This is about changing from a union that hasn't called your name in 13 years, to a new direction of hope. Those things take time so don't get flustered or pissed off at our PIT brothers and sisters. Some just take more time than others and if the IBEW is professional then they understand that.
To be clear, cards are not flowing like a waterfall since the IAM did their smear campaign BUT you should be encouraged to know that cards aren't just trickling in either. There is a steady current and the IBEW is not flowing like a dead fish down the current. The IBEW is swimming solidly against the current. Just was advised that Orange County did close to or right at a 100% signup as they are mailing 25 cards. PHX and LAS are solidly moving forward also.

Right now the battle to secure CLT is next. IBEW committee folks will be there to build a committee of leaders there so the information tree can be broadened to fight against the lies of IAM goofies that are running around thinking they are going to be the next member of the $100,000 club.

regards,

 

[GoldenRam94]

Tim,
Just left work in PHL today. I hope there isnt a time frame for the cards. It takes time. PIT guys in phl are so scared to sign. Serveral PHL guys had huge arguments with PIT guys about what has the IAM done for you??? They are shutting down PIT and they still wont sign. Im tired or hearing about that JUNK pension they are going to lose. I have another question. If the IAM is in bed with the Co. and both sides will submit there finally paperwork on the COC whos to say that the IAM wont fight hard for us on the COC and not submit a fighting battle for the COC an we lose.

This is exactly how the IBT and Piedmont scenario played out.

1. You are going to have a lot of people who do not see this as a career, therefore they have no desire to pay dues, and will be non-vote which in essence is a NO VOTE.
2. You are going to have a good number of people in other stations who are happy with the IAM and will not vote against them.

I hear the 65% figure, but if the IBEW really wants to win this thing, they better shoot for a much higher number. It is real easy to sign a card in a breakroom just to avoid the harassment and intimidation that will come if you do not. When it comes time to count for real it is a whole 'nother story.

Again, remember the Piedmont/IBT vote. How many folks that worked the Ramp in CLT said they would vote yes, then when the numbers came in it was only PHL, PIT, BUF, and BOS?

Get all of the facts, and be careful of where you get them, some folks are self-serving and we know that.

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

Listen to this guys, this is pretty important:

There was a message posted by Ron Roth in the Phoenix breakroom stating that we shouldn't sign the IBEW cards, because Ron spoke with someone at the IBEW, and this person claimed that the cards aren't sanctioned. I believe it was the president if the IBEW he claimed.

Is this legit? Or is the president of the IBEW just covering his tracks?

A fellow ramper of mine, the person handing out these cards, stated that this is a lie, and that he went out to dinner with IBEW reps, and they said they are a go in PHL and CLT.

Nobody has seen any IBEW in the breakrooms, they only go as far as the bus stop.

Anyone care to clarify?

 

[GoldenRam94]

[quote name='PO'ed PHX Ramper' post='536996' date='Oct 23 2007, 03:27 PM']Listen to this guys, this is pretty important:

There was a message posted by Ron Roth in the Phoenix breakroom stating that we shouldn't sign the IBEW cards, because Ron spoke with someone at the IBEW, and this person claimed that the cards aren't sanctioned. I believe it was the president if the IBEW he claimed.

Is this legit? Or is the president of the IBEW just covering his tracks?

A fellow ramper of mine, the person handing out these cards, stated that this is a lie, and that he went out to dinner with IBEW reps, and they said they are a go in PHL and CLT.

Nobody has seen any IBEW in the breakrooms, they only go as far as the bus stop.

Anyone care to clarify?[/quote]


Interesting indeed!

Now we do know that the IBEW has to be careful how they proceed otherwise they will be fined for raiding another union. Why would someone from the IBEW say this??? If he was merely covering his tracks he would say the cards signing is not sanctioned, but to say not to sign is another thing indeed.

 

[Tim Nelson]

[quote name='PO'ed PHX Ramper' post='536996' date='Oct 23 2007, 09:27 PM']Listen to this guys, this is pretty important:

There was a message posted by Ron Roth in the Phoenix breakroom stating that we shouldn't sign the IBEW cards, because Ron spoke with someone at the IBEW, and this person claimed that the cards aren't sanctioned. I believe it was the president if the IBEW he claimed.

Is this legit? Or is the president of the IBEW just covering his tracks?

A fellow ramper of mine, the person handing out these cards, stated that this is a lie, and that he went out to dinner with IBEW reps, and they said they are a go in PHL and CLT.

Nobody has seen any IBEW in the breakrooms, they only go as far as the bus stop.

Anyone care to clarify?[/quote]
"PO'e PHX Ramper,

Roth has lied continuously about these things. He doesn't even know that he is lieing because he doesn't know anything other than what Canale and Gushi is piping into his head. The truth is that Canale told them first off that a letter was coming out. No letter has come out so now Canale has watered down his lie and said that even though he can't get the 'written word' from the IBEW prez, that he has his 'verbal' word. It's become a he said/she said thing that Canale and Roth are trying to manufacture. If I'm a PHX ramper then I take a card, march it right up to Roth in a breakroom, and I ask him to sign a IBEW card since it won't mean a thing anyways if the IBEW is done. If he believes his own bull #### then he will sign the card. If he is a liar he will refuse to sign.

If Roth was really strong then he would have demanded that Canale pick a west sider instead of pimping off Gushi as a east sider representing the west. In fact, Canale has refused to appoint any west siders even though the west siders make up 38% of the group. The west siders are getting stroked every way possible, yet your very own leaders don't have any 'juice' to do anything about it and are unwilling to do anything other than turn the pages that Canale is preaching.

At any rate, the truth is that a half dozen fleet workers will be flying down to CLT this week on confirmed travel. Ask Roth about that? Then tell him to shut up and stop lying to those he represents OR get the right information before he starts running his mouth in ignorance.

regards,

 

[GoldenRam94]

" If I'm a PHX ramper then I take a card, march it right up to Roth in a breakroom, and I ask him to sign a IBEW card since it won't mean a thing anyways if the IBEW is done. If he believes his own bull #### then he will sign the card. If he is a liar he will refuse to sign.

How so? This makes no sense Tim. Him not signing will not mean anything.

Stick to the facts and stop with the hyperbole that will only cloud the issue.

You are also not in a position to say that nothing will be lost. You do not know this. Any thing (granted it isn't a lot) that has been negotiated by the IAM will probably be off the table. Again, stop the hyperbole and stick to the facts!

 

[Labor Dawg]

PO'ed PHX Brother This is the situation. Remember that the IAM in most, if not all the cases have direct access to the group simply due to the fact they are the representing body on the property! The fact that the IAM is spreading the rumors should not be surprising! This is how they think they will protect them selves from huge loss. They told everyone before that a letter is coming out. That was about 2 to 3 weeks ago! The bottom line is The IBEW can't get access to the property unless it is a grass roots effort. This means that employees that see the IAM for what they really are must step up for the change. Let me make this clear the employees have stepped up very big with the last TA and now they are looking for better representation. The fact that you are hearing from IAM guys just proves how desperate they are! The IBEW reps will try to answer all the questions you have. Use the website Tim made. He is trying to forward as much info as he can. Please look at other post. I have posted some info also. Remember you can't expect the IBEW to just walk out on a limb without a commitment from the group. When we get the numbers we have self imposed then we will move to the next stage which will have the full backing of the IBEW international. When the IBT was doing this everyone was excited about change but now the IBT is out and some people are willing to go back to a union that just doesn't care about us. Think about this if the IBT had stayed in this thing we would all have filed by now. We as the IBEW are the only ones and we will not jeopardize this group. I have said this numerous times. What does it take to show the group we care about them? There has already been a lot of money spent and more will continue to be spent if the group really wants a change. This is a very important statement, because the ball is on the employee's side of the court! We have to be willing to take that step and not sit back and accept sub par representation! If you feel this is not for you we don't want you to sign a card, only if you want real change should you sign a card. We have every intention of following thru with this but only with the blessing from the group!

 

[perserverance]

For those of you reading these posts and are wondering what ''letter'' we keep referring to in regards to the IBEW and the IAM.....The IBEW upon hearing of the IBT card signing stepped up to the plate and offered the workforce at US another choice had the IBT successfully gone through and petitioned the NMB for an election. The IBT was headed in the direction of getting the 50% of cards needed to ask for such an election. Any other ''would be'' represenitive would need 35% of the cards signed to be included on the ballot along with the existing rep (IAM). The IBEW began thier card signing so that when or if the IBT petitioned for an election , the Ibew would be able to place thier name along side the others. The IBEW and the IAM are both members of the AFL-CIO . The IBT is not a member and could go after the fleet without the fines and costs another union would incur if they were a member of the AFL-CIO. When the IBT dropped out the IBEW had already gained a substantial amount of cards in a very brief time with no campain. The IBEW decided to pursue the card signing without attaching thier public name to the issue. The IAM upon hearing this asked the IBEW of thier intent. To which the IBEW has not responded to. The AFL-CIO and the IAM is asking the IBEW to put out a letter to squash this issue. The IBEW has,is delaying this letter so that the reps can allow people to know that this letter is a mere formality to be followed to keep from recieving fines from the AFL-CIO. The IBEW kept up the card signing because the call for new represntation was so strong and they were not going to turn a deaf ear to us. Now, the IAM stated that this letter would appear awhile ago and thier still waiting. That letter may very well appear but its' just to keep the AFL-CIO and the IAM appeased. When this card signing (not if) reaches the number the IBEW wants to see, thier name will be publicly attached and thier philosphy will be ''BRING ON THE FINES". The IBEW will not turn from us...it will be us turning from them if this doesn't go through.
I don't know if anybody was wondering but I thought I might try to clear the air...so to speak.



Thanks

 

[zone2]

I have another question. If the IAM is in bed with the Co. and both sides will submit their finally paperwork on the COC whos to say that the IAM wont fight hard for us on the COC so we lose and they turn around and say, told you to vote that contract in!!!!

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

Ok guys, thanks for the clarification! I'll be sure to write down exactly what it say tomorrow so you can disect it a bit more!

Roth has always been a lapdog of the IAM. In that same cluster of updates, he announced his candidacy for a department that would allow him to better "keep us informed, and organize us." I think he's ready to start sucking more of the teet that is IAM, his appetite for disillusionment and obstructionism has gone too far! He will try to appease us with his promise to get the union more involved with organization of rallies and such, because that is the will of our brothers in PHX, yet, his alliances are to the IAM and Carnale.

He tried to sell the Transition agreement the best he could, and he had PHX eating from the palm of his hand. Only after it was shot down, people started speaking up and realizing that this was an unfair deal.

I would, very much, like to be more involved with the IBEW, and the outcome of our futures. The more I talk to people in PHX, the more nervous I become because I don't believe they are really getting the full scope of things. The person distributing these cards fell for the message, I was unimpressed with that. A lot of these guys in PHX are older gentlemen, not very analytical. I'm a college bound Psych student with an eye for detail and would love to help the situation as much as possible. I feel that you guys in the East are smart, resilliant, and are just as fed up as I am with this whole deal, and I would LOVE to throw my hat in.

For now i'll do the best I can to be your eyes and ears here in PHX, but that will only get us so far, as there is a lot of mis-information out there right now!

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

Ok guys, thanks for the clarification! I'll be sure to write down exactly what it say tomorrow so you can disect it a bit more!

Roth has always been a lapdog of the IAM. In that same cluster of updates, he announced his candidacy for a department that would allow him to better "keep us informed, and organize us." I think he's ready to start sucking more of the teet that is IAM, his appetite for disillusionment and obstructionism has gone too far! He will try to appease us with his promise to get the union more involved with organization of rallies and such, because that is the will of our brothers in PHX, yet, his alliances are to the IAM and Carnale.

He tried to sell the Transition agreement the best he could, and he had PHX eating from the palm of his hand. Only after it was shot down, people started speaking up and realizing that this was an unfair deal.

I would, very much, like to be more involved with the IBEW, and the outcome of our futures. The more I talk to people in PHX, the more nervous I become because I don't believe they are really getting the full scope of things. The person distributing these cards fell for the message, I was unimpressed with that. A lot of these guys in PHX are older gentlemen, not very analytical. I'm a college bound Psych student with an eye for detail and would love to help the situation as much as possible. I feel that you guys in the East are smart, resilliant, and are just as fed up as I am with this whole deal, and I would LOVE to throw my hat in.

For now i'll do the best I can to be your eyes and ears here in PHX, but that will only get us so far, as there is a lot of mis-information out there right now!

 

[lithuanian]

"PO'e PHX Ramper,

Roth has lied continuously about these things. He doesn't even know that he is lieing because he doesn't know anything other than what Canale and Gushi is piping into his head. The truth is that Canale told them first off that a letter was coming out. No letter has come out so now Canale has watered down his lie and said that even though he can't get the 'written word' from the IBEW prez, that he has his 'verbal' word. It's become a he said/she said thing that Canale and Roth are trying to manufacture. If I'm a PHX ramper then I take a card, march it right up to Roth in a breakroom, and I ask him to sign a IBEW card since it won't mean a thing anyways if the IBEW is done. If he believes his own bull #### then he will sign the card. If he is a liar he will refuse to sign.

If Roth was really strong then he would have demanded that Canale pick a west sider instead of pimping off Gushi as a east sider representing the west. In fact, Canale has refused to appoint any west siders even though the west siders make up 38% of the group. The west siders are getting stroked every way possible, yet your very own leaders don't have any 'juice' to do anything about it and are unwilling to do anything other than turn the pages that Canale is preaching.

At any rate, the truth is that a half dozen fleet workers will be flying down to CLT this week on confirmed travel. Ask Roth about that? Then tell him to shut up and stop lying to those he represents OR get the right information before he starts running his mouth in ignorance.

regards,

You are 100% off the mark, Tim!

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

??

Care to elaborate on that one buddy?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I have another question. If the IAM is in bed with the Co. and both sides will submit their finally paperwork on the COC whos to say that the IAM wont fight hard for us on the COC so we lose and they turn around and say, told you to vote that contract in!!!!

The IAM believed there was a change of control and that is what Canale told us all by letter. If the COC is won or lost it isn't because of the IAM but rather it will be because of how an arbitrator sees it. I'm not sure how someone could blame the IAM for losing the greivance. It involves more than just fleet service, as the M & R is involved also. Therefore, it doesn't naturally follow that anyone should say "I told you to vote in that contract". The contract sucked independently of the COC and the reason why it was voted out had nothing to do with the COC. The contract just sucked like real bad.

regards,

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

I agree with Tim. That's the fundamental flaw of the IAM. They have no BALLS. They are willing to concede way too early. Whether it was the transition agreement, or the obstructionist techniques the company used for the last two years! At least, I'm told, the IBEW could have some persuasive ways of getting the company to comply!