IBEW Fleet Service Union Campaign Update

[JoeDirt]

We as human beings tend to become comfortable with our lives. Change does not come easy for us. Change often time means moving forward into the unknown. Human nature being what it is often to resist the temptation to change. Despair is a huge motivator to overcome that resistance no matter what the outcome will be. If someone speaks out against the card signing it does not mean they are an IAM loyalist. On the other hand if they push for the signing of cards it does not mean they have a self destructive nature. I have friends on both sides of this argument. I respect the fact that they have the right to their own opinion. After all is said and done they will still be my friends.

 

[urbff]

What is up with you guys? What makes you think the company is going to give you want you want because you're going to ask via a new union? Get real. All unions are the same. If you don't like it run for office. Do something besides whining on here. Quit blaming everyone else for your lives. Take responsibility for your lives. Make a difference. Stop complaining and start fixing the union you have. Don't risk losing representation for everyone else. Look at the other airlines and what they are getting...nothing. Don't even say but Southwest.. blah, blah, blah. We are no Southwest. We suck. We are at the bottom. We put ourselves there. Why would the company want to give us more money when all we are doing is showing them how suckie we are? Ever think about doing a better job and showing them we are worth more money? No, all you big babies are just trying to punish the company by showing them you suck more than they do. There are no BIG raises with everything else you want, profit sharing, better vacation, better insurance, full sick pay, pension, better scope, etc. It is the way things are now. Fat ramp jobs are gone. If you want a high paying job get the education you need to make some money. For Pete's sake if you want a better job, get one. Oh, there's none out there? Welcome to my world. I know. I'm stuck here too, same reasons basically as all of you. Put in too many years, not enough education, not enough money to go back school because I wasted too much time here playing airport, my lifestyle is too expensive to start a day one pay somewhere else. Well crap! Get off your butts and figure out what you can do to fix what you have. Make the IAM what we want it to be. Don't go chasing rainbows, thinking the grass is greener. We very likely will wind up without a union and then guess what happens! Bye, Bye! Nobody owes us anything. You owe yourselves something. Let's do something productive. All you whiners get busy and fix this union. If you think you can do a better job, do it. Do what you can, run for office, or get behind someone who you know can make a difference. Oh here's a thought, be positive. Stop whining, start taking responsibility! It's our union so let's make it OUR union.

 

[Labor Dawg]

JIM First of all I never accused you of being management I said if you are not labor then you must be management. Secondly you are telling someone who has seen decert first hand so don't think that I don't know what could happen, because I do. However I also know that if we do nothing we will continue to be the golden cow for the IAM and get nothing in return. Thirdly I have tried to change things within the union, but if you are not the appionted your voice means nothing. And last but not least the reason you haven't seen any political lobbying done is because it doesn't benefit the upper level in the IAM. You throw pop shots at the fact their has been no lobbying, but the very company you work has on numerous times have asked you and I to contact our state reps so they could get things they say they need. How ever you never see the company or the IAM request you lobby for something that would benefit you or your coworkers. You are one of those people who are willing to stay status quote! Thats ok I respect that you in turn must respect my position also. I don't need Tim or anyone else to tell me I'm getting screwed by the company or their messenger boys the IAM. Listen I take risk everyday that I go to work on I-95. Life is full of risk you win some you loose some, but I'm not a fencepost sitter I will and have made tuff decisions and I comfortable with my choice! VOTE IBEW FOR A CHANGE!

urbffIt would be nice if that could happen, but these guys are politians! They will do anything to get in guys that will do their biddings not the real unions bidding. I have first hand seen how they run elections and if you question them you are black balled.I agree that you should try to change the leadership, but the entreanched people will not allow change because they are getting 100,000.00 jobs for their golf buddies! Thats a fact! The only ways to combat this is to threaten their jobs. How often did you see them around your stations before there was a vote or something like whats going on now. Almost never! Wake up and smell the coffee! The reason they are around now is their jobs are on the line. They may have to come back and work beside guys they have continued to screw for years! :angry2:

 

[perserverance]

AGAIN FROM ANOTHER WEB SITE



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
''Two weeks ago we had a ramp agent who was feeling dizzy and finally decided to go home sick. On the way home it is believed he had a massive heart attack and died. He was only 50 years old with 3 kids and a wife. We work in a class 2 station and he had told me a week before that he had to work at least 20 hours of overtime a pay to make ends meet, believe me, none of us live above our means. He left behind a family and a lot of friends. It is a lot of peoples opinion that this job killed him.''


I would no longer consider this ''whining''. This is life. It is not OUR union it is the companys
union. They wanted the IAM more than we did. Maybe you don't remember but the IAM was
the only union the company didn't campain against in the early 90's.
Above your means doesn't always apply.

Thanks

 

[urbff]

I'm so sorry to hear we lost a fellow ramper. There is a lot going on all around us that we aren't aware of. Sorry. I don't want to argue with anyone. I guess I'm just as frustrated as all of you. I have heard we can't change the union and I should just give up on it. I just hate letting the good guys lose. I just want it to get better at no risk to representation. We all just want a good life don't we? I shouldn't have gone off like I did, just had a really bad morning and I took it out on you guys. Sorry. But can't we just try one more time? If everyone really thinks it's a no win I'll leave it alone.

 

[Henderfuzz]

What is up with you guys? What makes you think the company is going to give you want you want because you're going to ask via a new union? Get real. All unions are the same. If you don't like it run for office. Do something besides whining on here. Quit blaming everyone else for your lives. Take responsibility for your lives. Make a difference. Stop complaining and start fixing the union you have. Don't risk losing representation for everyone else. Look at the other airlines and what they are getting...nothing. Don't even say but Southwest.. blah, blah, blah. We are no Southwest. We suck. We are at the bottom. We put ourselves there. Why would the company want to give us more money when all we are doing is showing them how suckie we are? Ever think about doing a better job and showing them we are worth more money? No, all you big babies are just trying to punish the company by showing them you suck more than they do. There are no BIG raises with everything else you want, profit sharing, better vacation, better insurance, full sick pay, pension, better scope, etc. It is the way things are now. Fat ramp jobs are gone. If you want a high paying job get the education you need to make some money. For Pete's sake if you want a better job, get one. Oh, there's none out there? Welcome to my world. I know. I'm stuck here too, same reasons basically as all of you. Put in too many years, not enough education, not enough money to go back school because I wasted too much time here playing airport, my lifestyle is too expensive to start a day one pay somewhere else. Well crap! Get off your butts and figure out what you can do to fix what you have. Make the IAM what we want it to be. Don't go chasing rainbows, thinking the grass is greener. We very likely will wind up without a union and then guess what happens! Bye, Bye! Nobody owes us anything. You owe yourselves something. Let's do something productive. All you whiners get busy and fix this union. If you think you can do a better job, do it. Do what you can, run for office, or get behind someone who you know can make a difference. Oh here's a thought, be positive. Stop whining, start taking responsibility! It's our union so let's make it OUR union.

Im right there with you my friend and once again I dont mean to keep this up but if everyone had truly imformed themselves of the T/A even though it wasnt perfact we would have been getting our raises by now. But somehow the hubs got this idea we could do so much better. Now where are? we still making crap. Once again if you read the T/A at the end of the agreement we would have had a bargining chip at the end to gain all we lost. So just remember we had at least something in that T/A it was not the big giveback everyone here says it was.
We do however need to pressure the IAM to get a deal done after this arbitration is over

 

[crushed]

Once again if you read the T/A at the end of the agreement we would have had a bargining chip at the end to gain all we lost.

Yippeee.....2002 wages in 2012.....we would really have them by the balls then!

How 'bout being paid 2012 wages in 2012?!

 

[crushed]

I just want it to get better at no risk

We would all like that......but if you do nothing then nothing changes.....life is a risk.

 

[Henderfuzz]

We would all like that......but if you do nothing then nothing changes.....life is a risk.

Its a lot better than trying to gain a whole new contract and keep this thing for another 3 or 4 years,
while a new union if we got one trys to negociate a new one.
Whats the difference at least in the mean time we would have gained some better pay.

 

[crushed]

least in the mean time we would have gained some better pay.

But at what cost?
Profit sharing, COC, health care, holidays, double time, sick time, .....and for 5 more years.
Don't be blinded by the "wage bait"

 

[JoeDirt]

Henderfuzz
I have to disagree with your assessment of the vote. It was not just the hubs as you say but the majority that voted the T/A down. Is PHX not a hub?
Give us some credit. We can read and are capable of making up our on minds. Contrary to what some might imply we are not stupid. I chose to play airport. I had options when I decided to come work for Piedmont. I am an educated individual. There are plenty of people with college degrees that work on the ramp. I like what I do for a living and I love the people I work with on a daily basis. How many people working today can say that. Educated or not. We might be what some call unskilled but not just anybody can do our jobs.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Henderfuzz
Give us some credit. We can read and are capable of making up our on minds. Contrary to what some might imply we are not stupid. I chose to play airport. I had options when I decided to come work for Piedmont. I am an educated individual. There are plenty of people with college degrees that work on the ramp. I like what I do for a living and I love the people I work with on a daily basis. How many people working today can say that. Educated or not. We might be what some call unskilled but not just anybody can do our jobs.

I am agreeing with you Dirt! People think that because someone tosses bags or crawls in a belly they are a moron. Lots of smart honest people who are just being taken advantage of.

 

[Henderfuzz]

Henderfuzz
I have to disagree with your assessment of the vote. It was not just the hubs as you say but the majority that voted the T/A down. Is PHX not a hub?
Give us some credit. We can read and are capable of making up our on minds. Contrary to what some might imply we are not stupid. I chose to play airport. I had options when I decided to come work for Piedmont. I am an educated individual. There are plenty of people with college degrees that work on the ramp. I like what I do for a living and I love the people I work with on a daily basis. How many people working today can say that. Educated or not. We might be what some call unskilled but not just anybody can do our jobs.

I agree with you I too enjoy what I do. I knew what I was getting into when I started.
What I cant understand is this feeling that somehow we could have done better than what we were offered. Maybe we could have but we got offered more pay than C/S and yes I understand that was at the expence of giving away the COC. However it was real in your hand money not some hope for a win in court. Yes I know we all had a choice but as far as PHX, yes there a hub but almost 50 percent did not vote. Not sure why.
I do blame the IAM for a lot of bad information as well as no information before the vote.
Im not stuck here on how it went down Im just frustrated here.
I do also understand there are a lot of great folks out there in the hubs becasue I worked in one myself. So dont get me wrong I do understand I just think there are some out there who dont really get it when it comes to the class II cities especially the ones where we work side by side with our West counterparts. Some of you guys need to put yourself in our shoes someday, than maybe you could understand

 

[Tim Nelson]

These 3 things your talking about here are nothing but pipe dreams, come on---they will represent us----how in the world will that be any different then the IAM or anyone else representing us---they are still dealing with the same Tempe management team and no one can tell you they can force them to do one thing better then the other, please---

US does not own any of the buildings they occupy, they lease them and you think that Tempe is actually threatened by this you are really dreaming----

I have yet to see one instance where any lobbying power has done one thing to help the little guy in labor------

As for the 4th point you make is exactly what I am telling you----the IAM preached this that and the other thing, and guess what--it was also all a bunch of BS empty promises----No different then the IBEW---

What I am trying to explain to you is that just weeks ago Tim was praising the IBT, now since that didn't materialize he's praising the IBEW---so if this doesn't work out who will he praise next....The Bakers Union?

If you really think that by changing unions at this time will change the eventual outcome of what you will get and when you will get it, you are sadly being mis-lead...

I am not an IAM loyalist---very far from it actually---Not management as you accuse just because I present real facts, but I am smart enough to know when, where and how to fight.....And taking a chance on decert. with a bunch of rhetoric and empty promises is not the way to do it...

Think about it, what you have now is what you have going forward FACT-----a decert. will again mean that Tempe will scour your contract and take the little you have left for sure...leaving you with absolutely nothing going forward...If don't think it can happen, you better wake up and realize the way these elections are run and do your research yourself and quit listening to people who jump from one boat to another every time they don't get their way....

Regards

Jimmy, your fundamental thinking on this is flawed and corrupted. Make an "L" with your finger and your thumb and that is what you see, it's the left hand corner of the big picture.
Kindly, reread your first paragraph, your opinion just isn't supported with any facts. Your opinion makes 'bad sense' and is nothing short than delusional. Do you really think you are a represented employee? Show us the facts Jimmy, we are waiting???????

At any rate, Just because you have a Collective Bargaining Agent does not mean you are represented. You aren't.
There are 3 groups of workers:
1. Non represented, non contract [Delta, Continental rampers]
2. Represented, contract [IAM mechanics]
3. Represented, non-contract [our period with the IAM from 1994-1999]

In essance, the IAM has created a new group of workers, i.e., 'non-represented, contract'. This is every company's dream. A CBA that makes offers that company's can't refuse.

If you want to masquarade like you are represented then you are only fooling yourself. Most already know that fleet service isn't represented. Either you have been to one too many IAM conventions or you are delusional to think that somehow you are represented. I think most will agree with me on this.

It's much deeper than my opinion Jimmy. My opinion on this matter is backed up with references. Take the non-represented fleet service workers in this industry. Start with Delta and Continental. Delta and Continental both make much more than US AIRWAYS fleet service in the hubs. Let's not even get into the bottom dwelling wage rates for 90% of the IAM stations [east & west].
Not surprisingly, Delta and Continental both have better overtime provisions and sick/holiday/vacation provisions. Both have just as many stations. FWIW: The second class stations are really just contracted out stations that pay dues.
NEITHER non-union airline has the IAM exclusive 60 day screwing policy, class 2 [second class] wage scales. 700 will say that you have what you have because of Bankruptcy but Delta went bankrupt too. Yet, Delta rampers make more cash and have better benefits, and their profit sharing checks blew ours away incredibly.

Hate to rain on your parade Jimmy, but please save all the 'i don't like the IAM either' **** ****. It's because of people like you that the masses are oppressed.

You ask, "How can another union do any better since we are stuck with the same management?"
That's a very easy one to answer. You start with representation, unlike our present situation, and you go from there. The IAM is the company bed partner and Boss Canale is doing back flips on the beach trying to impress Parker. Gotta have representation and right now you don't even have that.

As aside, to that end, if the IBEW does pull out then I'd be for getting any representation than being non-represented, the whore union can represent you better than being non-represented with the IAM. Color me with any union that wants fleet service. My preference was the IBT but they pulled out. The IBEW is a respectable union with plenty of resources and they want fleet service, they are worthy of our support for them.

The facts are clear, you and fleet service are in the worse group of workers,i.e., workers who are not represented but under contract. Unlike Delta and Continental, you are also contracted to pay about $500 bucks a year for this big fat collar.

regards,

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Tim, you can spin it anyway you like----there are enough of us out there that are smart enough to see what's really going on here.....

Why just weeks ago was the IBT the greatest thing since peanuts with you and just like that, their gone, no where to be found....

Now it's the IBEW, come on electrical workers union, do they even know what an airplane looks like or what we even do for a living? Get real...

Now once they pull out, if they do that is---who will you put on the pedestal next, UAW-AMFA, I mean it's getting old already.....

You need to quit filling these folks with false hopes and get on with your life, doing whatever it is you do...you are not even a member of Fleet service anymore, are you!