IAM WINS!

[700UW]

I was never an AMT, but I worked with mechanics and along side them all my aviation career, gimme a break, you have the typical elitist attitude.
 
How well did that work out for the mechanics at NW?
 
You cant ignore the facts of what has happened, and you are suppose to learn from mistakes made in history, not repeat them.
 
I represented mechanics and negotiated for them.
 
Now come back with some more attacks and insults as you as an A&P think you are god.

 

[EricLv2Fish]

OK… let me see if I understand you correctly—You want M&R to vote down any alliance, and vote in AMFA?! Now… in so doing this… you are freely admitting that the existing pension plan will cease to exist, and will no longer accrue future benefits… in fact “Frozen” at the point of the Union change?

Good luck selling that to the rank and file; it’ll go over like a lead balloon!

 

OK… let me see if I understand you correctly—You want M&R to vote down any alliance, and vote in AMFA?! Now… in so doing this… you are freely admitting that the existing pension plan will cease to exist, and will no longer accrue future benefits… in fact “Frozen” at the point of the Union change?

Good luck selling that to the rank and file; it’ll go over like a lead balloon!

 

Hmmm... let me guess… you listen to Rush, watch Fox, and supported Romney. I’m sure you will support Rand Paul in 2016, as he wants to eliminate all Unions with the National Right to Work Act!

I take offense to bringing Rush into the conservative union bashers group  :angry2: What has Rush ever done to deserve that classification?

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Hmmm... let me guess… you listen to Rush, watch Fox, and supported Romney. I’m sure you will support Rand Paul in 2016, as he wants to eliminate all Unions with the National Right to Work Act!

Geez, never mind....I was listening to Rush's lastest album "Clockwork Angels"...you know the band from Tronto...you meant Rush Limburgher. 

 

[swamt]

Actually you need to comprehend what you read. First off, nobody has said anything about seniority being or not being agreed too. AMFAinMIAMI simply wrote this;- "When they start to integrate the members onto one seniority list, having one union will just make things a lot smoother." I repeat "When they start to integrate" nothing here about not being agreed to.

Now, as far as your agreement and attachments; The first one is pretty much junk, as it is only authored by the IAM and only one representative. And clearly the second one is completely based on "IF" there is a successful implementation of this alliance of the TWU/IAM by membership vote. Therefore; if the alliance is voted against, then you will have 2 different unions that need to come to a fair and equitable agreement for seniority integration following the M&B laws. OR, there very well could be an election done (this time conducted by the NMB) to see who will be the representing union for the newly combined airline mechanics and related. There are different scenarios that can still happen, so don't just assume that the alliance is a shoe in every time you type or post something. And even with your original scenario, there is also a chance for AMFA to get in on the vote, "IF" you were speaking the truth about the "other" option being a "speak-in or write-in". Personally I don't see this being an option since this election will be ran and conducted by the 2 unions. If the NMB was conducting the election then I would believe it. But the NMB has already provided in writing that they have no jurisdiction nor will they conduct such an election where two unions want to combine, merge, or create an alliance.
In other words, if the alliance does not get voted in, your little agreement for seniority integration is null and void, unless it is the same in both unions by-laws or contracts, otherwise they will have to follow the M&B law...

 
 

BTW  WT, you have failed to address and thus far ignored this challenge from me, why is that WT???  And I know you read it because I only received one negative, and it was from you:-
 
 WT, why won't you contact Don West at the NMB and ask him who will conduct the election of the alliance between TWU/IAM? And post the results here, as I have, in writing? C'mon WT, don't be scared, it's free.--- It only takes 5 min to email this question to the NMB. I encourage you and others to do it. Tell you what WT; You send the e-mail and post for all of us to see. If the NMB says they will conduct and/ or run the election for the alliance between the TWU/IAM, I will publically come on here and praise your victory for you. C'mon WT you cannot pass this up, I am not even asking you to praise me when I am correct, but if you prove me wrong then I will publically praise you in front of everyone on here. Now just to be clear this is the question at hand; "Will the NMB conduct or run the election for the TWU/IAM alliance vote to combine the TWU and IAM into one union?" Don't be scared WT; follow thru with the challenge or all out here will know you are too scared to see the true results in writing from the NMB...          

Your silence is noted and speaks volumes yet again...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

What AMFA has done?
 
Lets see, got totally outsmarted at NW and gave up the certification after the merger with DL, how do you take a membership out on strike with no strike fund and no resources?
amfa gave up its cert so that its members would get $$ that they other wise would not of gotten.
They had to rely on handouts from the UAW and others.  They had to have known that NW was training scabs to replace them.
Every union that has been on strike even the IAM gets support from other union so your POINT IS?
Has such weak language that AS closed their OAK heavy maintenance base and over 200 mechanics lost their jobs.
The IAM gave up so much work at UAL as well before AMFA took over
Lost a major status quo case with Atlantic Coast Airlines, where the court ruled that status quo now doesnt apply to newly organized workers, (that was never the case until AMFA sued ACA and lost).
 
Has some of the worst scope language in the industry, WN has like 600 planes and only four lines of mtc are done in-house.
The IAM screwed the TWA guys, and OH yes then before that the Cont. guys,several times, What plan did the IAM have when Eastern went on strike IAM Failure there as well?
And they treat the non-mechanics as second class citizens, the union was started by a meat cutter who worked for AA as a mechanic in the 60s for less than two years and then sucked off the A&Ps  along with Kevin McCormick.
Back in the day the IAM was good, but it has lost  CAL/TWA/EAL/UAL how many jobs were lost and what money was lost by all the families of the airline workers of the past due to the IAM?
What ever job O.V. Delle had it is a fact that NWA and SWA and AS, make more than you guys at USAirways so what has the IAM done for you?
LOW wages, OH and you lost your pension so is that why the IAM started its own Pension?
Let the flames begin!
 
The reason the pilots and fas are separate is because the DOL recognizes them as skilled labor and the AFA is now part of the CWA as they couldnt survive on their own.
The NMB recognizes store as a seperate class and craft, no matter what work group they are attached to such as at USAirways M&R. But most craft unions are independent
such as electricians/plummers/painters/carpenters/masons, we mechanics want the same but the NMB says we must have auto/facilities so that is the way it is.
The IAM and the TWU want us lumped in just to get dues. If that is not the case and we want the industrial unions gone and we continue to bad mouth the union then WHY, do you and the other industril union
supporters want the mechanics?  WHY?????
The CWA had no votes casted as they dont represent ANY Mechanic and Related in the industry, the vote was between the IAM and IBT, not the CWA or AMFA.

 
 
How soon you forget about how the IAM had a large amount of the airlines in the PAST and who do they represent NOW, as far as US domestic carriers?
NOT RAMP tell us which mechanic group? USAIRWAYS which when it is all said and done, when the merger of employees starts the IAM will be gone.
THE AA employees will decide since we outnumber USAirways by approx 4000.

 

[700UW]

The IAM and other major unions have a strike fund.
 
Nothing was stopping Delta from improving the AMTs pay, a CBA is minimums.
 
UAL was going into Chapter 11 no union had any choice.
 
TWA seniority went to arbitration, the arbiter made the ruling, not the IAM.  And ask those former TWA employees who got their pensions because the IAM had liens on aircraft engines.
 
Stores is not a separate class and craft, at UA and the former NW and AS Stores is certified with the ramp.  At US they were on the same class and craft until the merger with HP and still are on the Mechanic and Related CBA.
 
How many jobs has AMFA and the IBT lost for M&R?
 
The NMB doesnt make you skilled labor, that would be the DOL.
 
And there are a lot more than just mechanics in the class and craft, utility/cleaners, plant mtc and many other classifications.

 

[Real tired]

 
 
How soon you forget about how the IAM had a large amount of the airlines in the PAST and who do they represent NOW, as far as US domestic carriers?
NOT RAMP tell us which mechanic group? USAIRWAYS which when it is all said and done, when the merger of employees starts the IAM will be gone.
THE AA employees will decide since we outnumber USAirways by approx 4000.

 
That's about the "size" of it.  The larger number will decide.
 
But I can tell you from personal conversations on the floor, not many of my coworkers favor this alliance, and a few don't even know what it is.
 
For one, I don't think too many want anything to do with your TWU and your bankruptcy contract.  No offence, please.
 
And once again I have to look up to our professional Flight Attendants for their strength to stand against their alliance, and see through it.

 

[737823]

I was never an AMT, but I worked with mechanics and along side them all my aviation career, gimme a break, you have the typical elitist attitude.
 
How well did that work out for the mechanics at NW?
 
You cant ignore the facts of what has happened, and you are suppose to learn from mistakes made in history, not repeat them.
 
I represented mechanics and negotiated for them.
 
Now come back with some more attacks and insults as you as an A&P think you are god.

The only elitist one here is YOU. You think you are the expert on everything, constantly take threads off topic, post insulting attacks, make threats and inquire about sensitive personal information. Your posts are textbook examples of what is wrong with labor in America, posting this BS defending crappy IAM CBAs and attacking those that want to advance their own professions interest. AMTs don't want stock clerks representing or negotiating for them. Pilots work closely and side by side with F/As they don't get involved with each others negotiations do they? The NMB should allow AMTs their own craft and class and not have other unskilled trades drag them down and hinder their bargaining position.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Are you looking in the mirror?
 
Guess you still have no clue on what a "Me Too" clause is because what the pilots get certain items are forced/passed on to the Flight Attendants,
 
Once again, dont let the facts get in your way.
 
I have posted no personal information about any poster on this board.  You outed yourself as financial person in Boston, or is it that you outed yourself as an AA BOS based manager?
 
So will the real joshie, please stand up.
 

 

[boresight]

AMFA had its chance at AA several times and came up short! If they can't even petition for an election with the NMB correctly, how are they going to represent our "elitest" craft?

The common thread of your craft union and the industrial unions is unionism. That means all get treated equally, not this management back door deals to get an extra $5 an hour while selling out our guys (appx 5500) at the bases. They have just as important of responsibilities as we do, safety of flight. So, you can make $78,000 a year, AMFA is willing to sacrifice 1/2 of the craft at AA? I'd rather service a plane from TUL, DWH or AFW/TEASL than one fresh out of heavy check in China.

I might be a "newbie" to this forum because I have a life, but I still won't buy this broke down lemon of a wanna-be union.

Vote American jobs, not AMFA!

 

[mike33]

Better than thou......
 
Thats the AMFA message from this forum

 

[1AA]

AMFA had its chance at AA several times and came up short! If they can't even petition for an election with the NMB correctly, how are they going to represent our "elitest" craft?

The common thread of your craft union and the industrial unions is unionism. That means all get treated equally, not this management back door deals to get an extra $5 an hour while selling out our guys (appx 5500) at the bases. They have just as important of responsibilities as we do, safety of flight. So, you can make $78,000 a year, AMFA is willing to sacrifice 1/2 of the craft at AA? I'd rather service a plane from TUL, DWH or AFW/TEASL than one fresh out of heavy check in China.

I might be a "newbie" to this forum because I have a life, but I still won't buy this broke down lemon of a wanna-be union.

Vote American jobs, not AMFA!

So where did all the overhaul jobs at USAir go?
Got bad news for you, the industrial unions (TWU, IAM, IBT) gave up those jobs for concessions.
Your clueless on what happened at AA with the last two filings.
 
I see you labeled the AMT craft a "Elitest" (spelled elitist) which tells me your not an AMT who cares about the craft or you have a different agenda. You should fit in perfect with the YES voting sheep in Tulsa.
Nice talking to you. Good luck in your self serving agenda with the Industrial unions or whatever you are going after.

 

[swamt]

Actually you need to comprehend what you read. First off, nobody has said anything about seniority being or not being agreed too. AMFAinMIAMI simply wrote this;- "When they start to integrate the members onto one seniority list, having one union will just make things a lot smoother." I repeat "When they start to integrate" nothing here about not being agreed to.

Now, as far as your agreement and attachments; The first one is pretty much junk, as it is only authored by the IAM and only one representative. And clearly the second one is completely based on "IF" there is a successful implementation of this alliance of the TWU/IAM by membership vote. Therefore; if the alliance is voted against, then you will have 2 different unions that need to come to a fair and equitable agreement for seniority integration following the M&B laws. OR, there very well could be an election done (this time conducted by the NMB) to see who will be the representing union for the newly combined airline mechanics and related. There are different scenarios that can still happen, so don't just assume that the alliance is a shoe in every time you type or post something. And even with your original scenario, there is also a chance for AMFA to get in on the vote, "IF" you were speaking the truth about the "other" option being a "speak-in or write-in". Personally I don't see this being an option since this election will be ran and conducted by the 2 unions. If the NMB was conducting the election then I would believe it. But the NMB has already provided in writing that they have no jurisdiction nor will they conduct such an election where two unions want to combine, merge, or create an alliance.
In other words, if the alliance does not get voted in, your little agreement for seniority integration is null and void, unless it is the same in both unions by-laws or contracts, otherwise they will have to follow the M&B law...

 
 

BTW  WT, you have failed to address and thus far ignored this challenge from me, why is that WT???  And I know you read it because I only received one negative, and it was from you:-
 
 WT, why won't you contact Don West at the NMB and ask him who will conduct the election of the alliance between TWU/IAM? And post the results here, as I have, in writing? C'mon WT, don't be scared, it's free.--- It only takes 5 min to email this question to the NMB. I encourage you and others to do it. Tell you what WT; You send the e-mail and post for all of us to see. If the NMB says they will conduct and/ or run the election for the alliance between the TWU/IAM, I will publically come on here and praise your victory for you. C'mon WT you cannot pass this up, I am not even asking you to praise me when I am correct, but if you prove me wrong then I will publically praise you in front of everyone on here. Now just to be clear this is the question at hand; "Will the NMB conduct or run the election for the TWU/IAM alliance vote to combine the TWU and IAM into one union?" Don't be scared WT; follow thru with the challenge or all out here will know you are too scared to see the true results in writing from the NMB...          

 
 

The IAM and other major unions have a strike fund.
 
Nothing was stopping Delta from improving the AMTs pay, a CBA is minimums.
 
UAL was going into Chapter 11 no union had any choice.
 
TWA seniority went to arbitration, the arbiter made the ruling, not the IAM.  And ask those former TWA employees who got their pensions because the IAM had liens on aircraft engines.
 
Stores is not a separate class and craft, at UA and the former NW and AS Stores is certified with the ramp.  At US they were on the same class and craft until the merger with HP and still are on the Mechanic and Related CBA.
 
How many jobs has AMFA and the IBT lost for M&R?
 
The NMB doesnt make you skilled labor, that would be the DOL.
 
And there are a lot more than just mechanics in the class and craft, utility/cleaners, plant mtc and many other classifications.

I see you are still avoiding the challenge at hand.  Your silence speaks volumes WT!!!  Can't wait for this "alliance" vote to completely show your true colors.  C'mon WT, you can do it, accept the challenge, or admit you are wrong and scared to do it...

 

[Kev3188]

Oh good! More infighting amongst the masses.

Fun!

Here's an idea: How 'bout we all get our sh*t together and start working toward a better tomorrow for America's working class?

 

[swamt]

Actually you need to comprehend what you read. First off, nobody has said anything about seniority being or not being agreed too. AMFAinMIAMI simply wrote this;- "When they start to integrate the members onto one seniority list, having one union will just make things a lot smoother." I repeat "When they start to integrate" nothing here about not being agreed to.

Now, as far as your agreement and attachments; The first one is pretty much junk, as it is only authored by the IAM and only one representative. And clearly the second one is completely based on "IF" there is a successful implementation of this alliance of the TWU/IAM by membership vote. Therefore; if the alliance is voted against, then you will have 2 different unions that need to come to a fair and equitable agreement for seniority integration following the M&B laws. OR, there very well could be an election done (this time conducted by the NMB) to see who will be the representing union for the newly combined airline mechanics and related. There are different scenarios that can still happen, so don't just assume that the alliance is a shoe in every time you type or post something. And even with your original scenario, there is also a chance for AMFA to get in on the vote, "IF" you were speaking the truth about the "other" option being a "speak-in or write-in". Personally I don't see this being an option since this election will be ran and conducted by the 2 unions. If the NMB was conducting the election then I would believe it. But the NMB has already provided in writing that they have no jurisdiction nor will they conduct such an election where two unions want to combine, merge, or create an alliance.
In other words, if the alliance does not get voted in, your little agreement for seniority integration is null and void, unless it is the same in both unions by-laws or contracts, otherwise they will have to follow the M&B law...

Sorry WT, this was suppose to be directed towards 700 not WT as I posted in one of my postings. Mistyped the name is all, the challenge for 700 still stands. 700 knows it was directed to him though, and he will use the excuse to get by without responding, and that's ok, I'll give you that one. How can you pass up this challenge 700? I can tell you why, cuz you know what the answers are that the NMB will give you and it would publically prove you wrong. Take the challenge...