IAM Stepping Up campaign

[Kev3188]

first of all, Kev, thank you SO MUCH for your constant attention to good grammar and spelling. Your cause is greatly aided by having a literate and articulate spokesman.

First of all, you should know how allergic I am to this sort of attempt at driving a wedge. We live in an era of fat thumbs and auto correct. So be it. Further, if someone misuses hanger, loose, any one of the "they're" trio, and you still understand what they've said, then they've clearly been able to get their message across.
 

As to the question of profit sharing, I admire your sense of equality but I can absolutely assure you that the pilots of ANY airline are not going to accept an equal dollar profit sharing distribution as much as you or anyone else thinks that is what they should do.

No one has said they would- it's just what I would like to see. Better yet, they have a collective voice that can ensure they keep what they've negotiated.
 

Since profit sharing is a type of performance based competition and performance based competition is usually tied to one's individual salary, you will have a very hard time convincing the majority of the world that profit sharing should be equally distributed on a dollar basis.

Not really... The discussion can start with either:

Would you like to have grossed 1/3 or more on your PS check?

or

Do you think that in aggregate everyone contributes equally to the success of this carrier?


 

BTW, DL's non-contract employees just received a pay raise that equated to the same percentage the pilots gained, did they not?

Can you tell us which non-contract group *will* total the same percentage increases of the life of the pilot CBA? Not "should," not "might," but "will."

 
 

Our pay is in comparison to other pilots not to historical payscales. If that were the case then I am still not equal to what I was payed before 911. Not taking inflation but just in dollars.

I don't think anyone here would disagree with that? Not for nothing, have you noticed that even the company has stopped referring to this increases as "raises?" Maybe it's different in Flight Ops, but it's a marked change in ACS...

 

We are the only group that lost our retirement (thank You union) and the pay in part is to make up for that. But since we can not be treated un equally (thanks alpa) NWA pilots not only get thier retirement but get all the benefits that are in the present contract. . Equals windfall for them.Take flying lessons we are hiring or go into management if you want to compare pay rates. Otherwise compare your pay to the people across the ramp that are doing the same job.

The idea isn't "I want what the pilots make." No one I know expects to bring in what a 777 driver does. Rather, it's the idea that your group was able to negotiate solid annual increases that can't be taken away on a whim, and that those increases themselves are much larger (percentage-wise, not in actual dollars) than anyone else.
 
 

Would the IAM cheerleaders please reply to this?
 
Also, last time I checked, the pilots are the ones flying the plane, the ones responsible for all souls on board, from door closing to door opening, plus also responsible for paying back the money it took to learn to fly the plane.  last I checked, its about a two week (give or take a week) ordeal to be trained to become a ramp agent, and on top you get paid to learn it.  It sure didn't cost me thousands of dollars to learn to load planes, did it you?

Maybe, but if you f**k up it could cost millions, or even some lives. Let's also not forget the investment that has been made in us over the years.

Look, if you truly are a ramper (and I don't doubt it), then you know what environment we work in, know what we're directly responsible for, and recognize not only the value we bring to this enterprise, but the revenue we generate.

...And that's not even taking into account the ever increasing responsibilities, having to carry an ever changing cast of new hires, and so on.

You are more than "just a ramper," even if you can't see it.
 
 

no. the only pensions that were turned over to the PBGC were PMDL pilot pensions. DL non-contract and all NW employee pensions were FROZEN and DL still controls them and has responsibility for funding them. Notably, DL is ACCELERATING funding on its frozen plans in order to provide more pension security for its non-DL, non-pilot personnel.

Still underfunded, FWIW.


 
 

The only thing that the IAM is stepping up is the bold lies to try and convince a few people whose heads are completely in the sand to vote to ruin their own future - not unlike what the IAM has done for UA rampers.

Tell us more about these alleged "bold lies."

 

You are beyond an idiot to continue to post your profit sharing story - EVERY DL employee group was reduced from 15% to 10% AND YET EARNED MORE THAN THEY EVER DID.

That's right. We did.

BTW, who do you think generated those massive profits?

Hint: Yoyo, Baba, Meto, myself, and so on.

 

[700UW]

feel free to share whatever you want.... as long as you don't mind me showing up on your doorstep.

It's either all on the board or none of it is.

You have misrepresented not one but 3 major issues in the hope of trying to convince people that the IAM is viable alternative to what DL employees have now.

1. You refuse to acknowledge that DL's non-contract employees received multiple pay raises over the same period as the DL pilots received 20% and the pilots also allowed scores of new large RJs while DL's non-contract employees gave up no scope.
 
First of all in the 2 1/2 year period that DL's pilots will be getting 20% and have gotten 13%.  DL non-union employees received 2% to 3% each year for two years, so 6% is no where near 20%, now is it? 
DL's non-contract employees have NO SCOPE, you are lying again, how about those that lost their jobs in CVG, MEM and DTW, how did that work out for them?
 
2. You refuse to acknowledge that pilots thruout the US industry took enormous financial hits because of BK terminations of their pensions when everyone even remotely connected to the industry knows they did.
 
Show me one post where I said that pilots didnt get the hits like every other group at the major airlines?
Yet DALPA negotiated huge raises and replacement plans for the terminated pension.
 
3. You have repeatedly mischaracterized the pension benefits which DL employees - ACROSS THE BOARD - received, including that DL paid out more profit sharing than DL employees have ever received, and in fact higher than any US airline - and probably in the world has ever paid out.
 
Pilots negotiated the cuts in profit sharing for a 20% raise over a 2 1/2 year period, the 13% they have gotten increased their profit sharing by $17 million, the non-union had the 33% cut imposed on them and only received 6% in the same period, others have gotten only a 4% increase in wages.  Which is greater 15% or 10%? 

feel free to call it what you want but for you to call other people liars and then misrepresent - deceive, lie - about so many very obvious facts should result in you being classified as short on gray cells or else of very low character.
 
You are dishonest and have been proven wrong numerous times, and you post lies and misinformation and you attack and insult when you are called out.

Either way you are (you're) classified, there is no way you can claim to be both honest and intelligent and write what you have written on here this afternoon.
 
Looking in the mirror again I see.
if it hurts your feelings to have people confront you about such things, then my suggestion is for you to stop writing what you are writing instead of trying to go running to someone who you can also deceive (lie to) in hopes of winning them over.
 
You are the master of misinformation in someone doesnt agree to your opinions and so called facts, not I.

By the way you do know sentences start with a capital letter right?
 
Such a hypocrite.

 

[WorldTraveler]

flat out lie.

The DL pilots contract covered multiple years and DL non-contract employees received far more than 2-3% over the same period per year.

I am simply flabbergasted that you and Kev can argue that the company can take away what it wants when it wants but you can't acknowledge that the company gave far more than any other unionized group gained at other airlines and also that the company had NO OBLIGATION to give DL non-contract employees the world's largest profit sharing checks but they did anyway.
It is completely illogical for you to argue that the company took away what they had no obligation to give in the first place but yet they gave more than what they did and you want to argue they screwed the non-contract employees.

Kev,
you DID say that you expect to get the same profit sharing check as a pilot. Either that is what you believe or you don't. Profit sharing is a part of the compensation and pilots are not going to settle for a fraction of the percent of profit sharing that DL will give to other employee groups so they can feel good about all being on the same team.

You are on the same team and you get the same percentage of profit sharing from your base pay with adjustments as pilots do. You can wish all you want but it isn't changing.

And then you have unions like the IAM and TWU that gave up profit sharing for far, far less. And you expect DL employees are going to respect a union that can't realize the value of 8.5% of their annual pay?


if you find information that I have misposted, then call it out. What you consistently do with market based data just as you do here regarding HR issues is misquote and misuse data and expect that people won't notice.

Numbers do matter and they matter when they are properly used.


you are the master of misquoting and misrepresenting data... you have no equal

for you to argue that the pilots got what was legally allowed when a DL pilot and I have both said it was far from what they lost is deception and lies - and nothing but.

 

[metopower]

Kev , I totally understand where you are comming from. You are consistent and I get it. I can't understand arguments by persons that use half truths and bad figure that state thing that are not true. (Not you)My retirement is less then half of what it would have been. The make up has been from MY savings in My retirement plan. I was fully vested at bK thus I had earned MY retirement already. (28years).All money that I have saved since would have been in addition to that . Get it.So take your union crap and half truths and stick it

 

[700UW]

You are the one who is lying, holy smoke, are you that blinded?
 

June 29, 2012
 
The nearly 11,000 pilots will receive a 4% pay increase on this week, another increase of 8.5% in January and then two annual increases of 3%, according to an earlier union bulletin that explained the terms of the deal reached May 15. By the end of 2014, pay rates will be nearly 20% higher than they are today, ALPA said in that bulletin.
 
A 737 captain who earned $153 an hour in 2008, the year Delta and Northwest Airlines merged, will be paid $217 an hour effective in January 2015.
 
Aside from the higher pay rates and an increase in the company's contribution to the pilot's pension plan in 2014, the Delta pilots won increased flying as the airline is acquiring 88 small Boeing Co. BA -1.09% 717s jetliners that will be flown by them, not pilots at Delta's commuter affiliates. In return, the pilots will let Delta add 70 smaller jets to its regional airline operations and require Delta to phase out some of the smallest 50-seat jets flown by the regional affiliates.
 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304058404577496790953561450

 

[WorldTraveler]

touché, Meto, what a smackdown - and from an ACTIVE DL employee no less.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev,
you DID say that you expect to get the same profit sharing check as a pilot. Either that is what you believe or you don't. Profit sharing is a part of the compensation and pilots are not going to settle for a fraction of the percent of profit sharing that DL will give to other employee groups so they can feel good about all being on the same team.

You are on the same team and you get the same percentage of profit sharing from your base pay with adjustments as pilots do. You can wish all you want but it isn't changing.

Gee, are you sure? I believe we should. I do not expect we will.

There is a difference between what I would like to see, and what I feel has a realistic chance of happening. I can't make that any clearer.


 

if you find information that I have misposted, then call it out. What you consistently do with market based data just as you do here regarding HR issues is misquote and misuse data and expect that people won't notice.

Numbers do matter and they matter when they are properly used.


you are the master of misquoting and misrepresenting data... you have no equal

for you to argue that the pilots got what was legally allowed when a DL pilot and I have both said it was far from what they lost is deception and lies - and nothing but.

WTF?

I'm gonna need some specific examples, please...

 

[WorldTraveler]

just look above... 3 of them.

Do you really spend time trying to push causes that you "would like to see" but don't really believe will happen?

across the board profit sharing is not going to happen. Give it up and move on.

 

[metopower]

Crap crap crap crap crap ....ignore!!

 

[Kev3188]

across the board profit sharing is not going to happen. Give it up and move on.

 
 
No one said it would. 
 
Again, examples of my "being the master of misinformation" would be great. Feel free to cite links to posts so people can check them out for themselves.

 

[yoyodyne]

 
 
No one said it would. 
 
Again, examples of my "being the master of misinformation" would be great. Feel free to cite links to posts so people can check them out for themselves.

 
 
WT, in all fairness, that would be 700, not Kev

 

[700UW]

I posted my facts and sources.
 
Yet WT is the one is posting misinformation.
 
So DALPA and the WSJ are putting out false information?

 

[Kev3188]

Kev , I totally understand where you are comming from. You are consistent and I get it. I can't understand arguments by persons that use half truths and bad figure that state thing that are not true. (Not you)My retirement is less then half of what it would have been. The make up has been from MY savings in My retirement plan. I was fully vested at bK thus I had earned MY retirement already. (28years).All money that I have saved since would have been in addition to that . Get it.So take your union crap and half truths and stick it

 
 
I hear ya.
 
I was vested too, and now have one that's frozen, and one that's in a God-knows-what sort of limbo.
 
Pensions are an interesting discussion to have, and I suspect you & I could both use up a lot of bandwidth doing so. 

 

[yoyodyne]

I posted my facts and sources.
 
Yet WT is the one is posting misinformation.
 
So DALPA and the WSJ are putting out false information?

Wondering where those facts and sources for the IAM represented groups at USAir I asked for are....

 

[metopower]

Kev we share that pain. And only those that do can understand how gut reaching it is to think about it.