IAM Stepping Up campaign

[robbedagain]

first of all, Kev, thank you SO MUCH for your constant attention to good grammar and spelling. Your cause is greatly aided by having a literate and articulate spokesman.

As to the question of profit sharing, I admire your sense of equality but I can absolutely assure you that the pilots of ANY airline are not going to accept an equal dollar profit sharing distribution as much as you or anyone else thinks that is what they should do.

Since profit sharing is a type of performance based competition and performance based competition is usually tied to one's individual salary, you will have a very hard time convincing the majority of the world that profit sharing should be equally distributed on a dollar basis.

Perhaps you can give us some examples of companies that do that across widely differently paid employees.

If you are happy to let any non-active DL employee talk on the subject of representation, then you shouldn't be surprised if you get any non-active DL employee, not just the ones you want to participate in the conversation.

BTW, DL's non-contract employees just received a pay raise that equated to the same percentage the pilots gained, did they not?

since you're so good at spelling and grammar  then explain why you have in the past hammered me personally and others  yet when you are shown to be wrong  you CANT admit you're wrong

 

[yoyodyne]

Our pay is in comparison to other pilots not to historical payscales. If that were the case then I am still not equal to what I was payed before 911. Not taking inflation but just in dollars. We are the only group that lost our retirement (thank You union) and the pay in part is to make up for that. But since we can not be treated un equally (thanks alpa) NWA pilots not only get thier retirement but get all the benefits that are in the present contract. . Equals windfall for them.Take flying lessons we are hiring or go into management if you want to compare pay rates. Otherwise compare your pay to the people across the ramp that are doing the same job.

 
Would the IAM cheerleaders please reply to this?
 
Also, last time I checked, the pilots are the ones flying the plane, the ones responsible for all souls on board, from door closing to door opening, plus also responsible for paying back the money it took to learn to fly the plane.  last I checked, its about a two week (give or take a week) ordeal to be trained to become a ramp agent, and on top you get paid to learn it.  It sure didn't cost me thousands of dollars to learn to load planes, did it you?

 

[WorldTraveler]

since you're so good at spelling and grammar  then explain why you have in the past hammered me personally and others  yet when you are shown to be wrong  you CANT admit you're wrong

probably because you haven't proven I am wrong as much as you would like to think you and others have.

When you actually show that I am wrong, let me know.

As for Meto's comment, the key issue is that pilots are compensated based on comparisons to other pilot groups. 700 and the IAM have tried to push the "look at what the pilots are getting" nonsense but it has no economic basis in reality and hasn't been used anywhere else.

The union movement can't even defend what it has done with salaries and job protections for DL employees compared to identical peer workgroups which is precisely why they are trying to muddy the water by crossing workgroup lines.

It probably also is a whole lot easier to be talking about DL and what its pilots are getting than to explain the carnage that is taking place in the ranks of UA's ramp employees who the IAM should be protecting but are not.

with the examples of what the IAM and unions in general in the airline industry have done, it is no surprise that they want to talk about everything except their own track record.

It is precisely because DL employees CAN see the unions' track records that they have consistently said via the actual voting process there is nothing of value that the union movement can do for DL's non-union employees.

and Meto, it is easy for people to minimize the impact of the losses that many DL pilots and retirees suffered but those that do so prove they really don't have a right to be speaking about issues that are still as sensitive to DL pilots or to suggest that DL's non-contract employees deserve anything close to the relatively little that DL pilots have gained since.

 

[700UW]

You didnt lose your pension, it was turned over to the PBGC and got a replacement plan.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no. the only pensions that were turned over to the PBGC were PMDL pilot pensions. DL non-contract and all NW employee pensions were FROZEN and DL still controls them and has responsibility for funding them. Notably, DL is ACCELERATING funding on its frozen plans in order to provide more pension security for its non-DL, non-pilot personnel.

And the pilot pensions were above PBGC limits so there were indeed losses just as there were at UA and US among pilots.

You have no clue what you are talking about - but it is good that you keep spouting off because it just shows to the DL employees that you are trying to woo how misinformed you are. Those FAs that you are trying to impress work side by side with the pilots who were impacted. They know the truth.

 

[700UW]

That is what I stated.
 
It was in reply to meto and yoyo.
 
Learn to read the posts above.
 
Did you live a pension termination or involved in negotiations?
 
The non-union pensions were frozen which means no further accrual of benefits, so the non-union lost also.
 
The pilots had their pension terminated and turned over to the PBGC and negotiated a replacement.
 
So you are the one who doesnt know jack.
 
By the way still waiting for you to show how the pilots will have gotten a 20% raise by the end of this year and why no other group at DL got that much.

 

[WorldTraveler]

then direct your posts... and it doesn't matter that the pilots didn't receive full protection from the PBGC - not at DL, not at UA, and not at US.

For you to argue that the pilots were even close to being made whole is simple arrogance and stupidity. But again, carry on. DL employees know better and every word you write to try to argue that the pilots should be content with what they have makes it more comical that you think the IAM should be a legitimate voice for DL employees.

tell us how many raises and the total percent that DL's non-contract employees have received every time you throw out that 20% pay raise. Tell us also how much scope those employees NEGOTIATED to give up in order to get the few percent above non-contract employees that they did get.

The only thing that the IAM is stepping up is the bold lies to try and convince a few people whose heads are completely in the sand to vote to ruin their own future - not unlike what the IAM has done for UA rampers.

quit worrying about the pilots and address your own (the union you advocate for) actions at other US airlines. No rational DL employee would vote for a union that has participated in the elimination of hundreds of jobs at UA - and that is just the warm-up act for what is coming.

 

[robbedagain]

wt  i am not the only one who has proven you wrong   others have to   only you choose to change it to fit your narrative    you think dl is the only one who does the best   well that aint the way it works jack.    each airline does the best in their own ways no matter what    

 

[700UW]

The pilots received the maximum protection permitted by law.
 
The pilots didnt lose jobs for those raises, as you have pointed out DL is growing and add planes, so that means they will need to increase the pilot headcount, not reduce.
 
And how many times do I have to post the WSJ article that shows the facts that you ignore and lie about every time?
 
And you still havent proven any of the IAM's information is false and you have had months to do so.
 
Few percent more than non-union?
 
You are lying again, DL pilots since June 29, 2012 have gotten a 13% raise and will reach 20% by the end of this year.
 
No one else at DL has even come close to that percentage, and a current employee like Kevin has even stated that.
 
DL got 2% or 3% this year, and financed it with a 33% reduction in profit sharing.
 
So DL non-union hasnt even gotten 50% of the raises the pilots have gotten.
 
Stop with the lies and misinformation, its getting old.

 

[WorldTraveler]

stop the double speak.

The law didn't provide anywhere near the coverage that pilots had accrued. stop acting like they weren't financially harmed. they were and it wasn't just at DL.

You are beyond an idiot to continue to post your profit sharing story - EVERY DL employee group was reduced from 15% to 10% AND YET EARNED MORE THAN THEY EVER DID.

And you still can't admit that people like Kevin received multiple pay raises over the same period of time as the 20% that you claim.

You are absolutely the worst excuse that the IAM could have come up with to argue for more unions at DL.

You truly have no idea what a detriment to the cause you are - but you do serve as DL mgmt.'s best friend in the unionization campaign. No one could have elected a more incompetent spokesman than you.

To twist facts and argue that people weren't harmed when everyone knows the truth and then try to create class warfare for your own benefit is just plain criminal.

You should truly be ashamed of yourself.

 

[700UW]

stop the double speak.


You are beyond an idiot

To twist facts and argue that people weren't harmed when everyone knows the truth and then try to create class warfare for your own benefit is just plain criminal.

You should truly be ashamed of yourself.

How nice of you to talk about yourself.
 
Maybe OM needs to know the real you.

 

[yoyodyne]

That is what I stated.
 
It was in reply to meto and yoyo.
 
Learn to read the posts above.
 
Did you live a pension termination or involved in negotiations?
 
The non-union pensions were frozen which means no further accrual of benefits, so the non-union lost also.
 
The pilots had their pension terminated and turned over to the PBGC and negotiated a replacement.
 
So you are the one who doesnt know jack.
 
By the way still waiting for you to show how the pilots will have gotten a 20% raise by the end of this year and why no other group at DL got that much.

 
That's it???
 
Tell me, how much percentage of a raise have the IAM represented groups have gotten at the former USAir (and please, no diatribe about bankruptcy contracts, since both Delta and USAir declared bankruptcy, and IIRC USAir declared first, twice)?
 
How much profit sharing do the IAM represented groups at USAir get?
 
How big a raise is the company proposing for this "contract" that you are negotiating now? Never mind, I believe its 1%, if not less...

 

[700UW]

Well you believe wrong.

 

[WorldTraveler]

How nice of you to talk about yourself.
 
Maybe OM needs to know the real you.

feel free to share whatever you want.... as long as you don't mind me showing up on your doorstep.

It's either all on the board or none of it is.

You have misrepresented not one but 3 major issues in the hope of trying to convince people that the IAM is viable alternative to what DL employees have now.

1. You refuse to acknowledge that DL's non-contract employees received multiple pay raises over the same period as the DL pilots received 20% and the pilots also allowed scores of new large RJs while DL's non-contract employees gave up no scope.
2. You refuse to acknowledge that pilots thruout the US industry took enormous financial hits because of BK terminations of their pensions when everyone even remotely connected to the industry knows they did.
3. You have repeatedly mischaracterized the pension benefits which DL employees - ACROSS THE BOARD - received, including that DL paid out more profit sharing than DL employees have ever received, and in fact higher than any US airline - and probably in the world has ever paid out.

feel free to call it what you want but for you to call other people liars and then misrepresent - deceive, lie - about so many very obvious facts should result in you being classified as short on gray cells or else of very low character.

Either way you are (you're) classified, there is no way you can claim to be both honest and intelligent and write what you have written on here this afternoon.

if it hurts your feelings to have people confront you about such things, then my suggestion is for you to stop writing what you are writing instead of trying to go running to someone who you can also deceive (lie to) in hopes of winning them over.

 

[yoyodyne]

Well you believe wrong.

Wondering where the "don't let the facts get in your way" is....