IAM Stepping Up campaign

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not trying to REFUTE data... I am simply saying it is incomplete because it doesn't include the whole compensation package which includes profit sharing. You LOVE to show partial data esp. based on hourly wages but that is not the whole package.

I'm not changing any subject... I am noting that your attempts - supported by the IAM - at throwing partial data in an attempt to convince a few people to throw you a vote hasn't work and won't work because DL employees are well aware of the real story - and what the IAM says is far from the whole truth.

The only real truth is that DL employees have consistently shown a lack of interest in further unionization.

 

[700UW]

Sure you are, you posted that is was lies, so prove your claim.
 
And when are you going to answer why are there two grassroots campaigns started by Delta employees and cards being signed?
 
You keep ignoring that fact!
 
And where is your data proving the BTS data wrong?

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are the one that calls everything a lie and everyone a liar, not me.

your data is incomplete and not an accurate picture.... anyone with half a brain can figure out what you are doing but you seem to think you can throw partial and incomplete data out there - but those with a fully functioning brain aren't moved by a snake oil salesman looking for a union sign up commission check.

 

[700UW]

Refute it then, you are the one claiming its wrong, it is sited so prove it wrong.
 
There is no such thing as getting a commission check for signing up new member, you are stooping to new lies again.
 
Where do you make up this garbage?
 
And once again why are there campaigns started and run by delta employees for the ramp and flight attendants and why are they signing cards?
 
The only one who doesnt have a fully functioning brain is you, keep avoiding and deflecting, everyone sees right through you.
 
Trying to earn your paycheck from F&H again? Its not working out very well is it?

 

[WorldTraveler]

get on the red phone next to your phone and tell your PR people at the IAM that your data has been shot down once again.

You have all weekend long to get working on another graphic using partial and incomplete data to try to convince DL people that a union makes sense - but they have consistently been able to see more unions aren't worth the paper the CBAs are written on.

IN the meantime, you can start explaining why people like robbed again have fared so poorly in his union represented position that he comes on a forum like this to talk about how bad mgmt has been... if a union is even half of what you claim it is, then mgmt shouldn't be the hindrance to pay progression and job security that so many on here say they face in airline union jobs.

you've got your work cut out for you... so get busy with providing real answers if you want to convince DL people. For now, you are no closer to your goal of seeing more union employees at DL than you were when you joined this forum.

 

[Kev3188]

except they are bold faced lies, which is exactly what we would except from a union that is trying DESPERATELY and without repeated success to unionize DL employees.

And we would expect only the sheep to believe such info.

We?

Okay, let's unpack these "bold faced lies" a little, then.

What specifically in either flyer is a lie, and what is the true number/fact/etc.?
 

DL's non-pilot personnel had the same percentages of profit sharing before and after the changes.

Sure did. Can you show us where that was otherwise stated? I don't see any mention of that. What I do see are points raised about boosts in base rates and how that affected PS payout amounts.
 

To even try to argue that there is any difference between pilot and nonpilot personnel is something you could only believe while under the influence of something that is not likely to be legal in at least 48 states and maybe 50.

Well, you're arguing something that doesn't even exist. What does that say about your consumption habits?


 
 

I would like to see the results of the "survey" that has been bandied about here. You know the one that Kev3188 supposedly had and "voted" for the profit sharing for pay scheme.

Me too. So would a lot of actual DL employees...
 
 

the actual facts are that ALL, not one, not two, but ALL of DL's largest employee groups rejected unions in the representation elections post merger that SHOULD HAVE BEEN the easiest elections any union could have run... and yet they lost BADLY and not one vote has been scheduled since.

They all lost "badly?" Hmmm...


 

I can speak with pretty strong authority and facts to back it up in saying that DL employees don't want anything to do with unions. They HAVE spoken.

The cards that continue to stream in, the increase in counter messaging by the company, etc. all tell me people ARE speaking.
 

BTS data, like any, can be sliced and diced any way you want.

I'll keep that in mind next time you present a set of stats as an unassailable truth.

As Josh might say, "saved for future use."
 

THe IAM has NEVER been willing to include the whole benefits package.

You're kidding, right?


 
 

the data is SELECTIVELY pulled.... ie base salary.

You want to label me as a self appointed spokesman...

No, I think you did that all on your own...
 

I'm not trying to REFUTE data...

Sure you are. What else can one call labeling something as "bold faced lies?"

 

[700UW]

You havent shot down a thing.
 
You will have to contact the IAM Transportation Department.
 
I dont work for them nor am I assisting on the Delta campaigns, keep trying.
 
CBAs are worth something, go ask the pilots at DL who by the end of this year will have almost a 20% increase in wages since mid 2012.
 
Why dont you try and throw the kitchen sink at this and see if that sticks.
 
Your desperation is showing and its quite funny.
 
For someone who isnt a DL FA or Fleet, you seem to speak for all of them, nice being a legend in your own mind.
 
Once again, prove the data wrong, you have been asked numerous times to do so and you cant.
 
Why does DL spend millions to keep unions out? 
 
Why does RA and his team have contracts and you dont want the employees who want one too have one also?
 
Thanks for making me laugh and keeping me entertained this morning, its nice watching your meltdown, lol!

 

[Kev3188]

...you've got your work cut out for you...

...As does anyone who speaks truth to power...

 

[700UW]

Kevin,
 
Great post!

 

[robbedagain]

700  don't you think he is the appointed preacher of delta instead of the official delta spokesman?   after all  he did say he goes into the breakrooms   still waiting to hear how he does that?   but I guess some preachers wont be able to refute official data

 

[700UW]

The Minister of Misinformation.
 
"There are no Union Drives going on at Delta, there are no cards being signed"
 

WT, Delta Employees Spokesman

 

[robbedagain]

lmao   that's great!

 

[WorldTraveler]

once again, there is nothing wrong with showing any data... but when it has been repeatedly shown that nearly all of the data the IAM uses in its attempts to rank compensation is not complete, it is indeed a lie to say that DL employees or any other group come up short based on one or two items which the IAM wants to feature.

I have repeatedly highlighted MIT's airline data project which contains the same BTS/DOT data which the IAM wants to highlight BUT IT IS PRESENTED COMPLETELY and with proper caveats.

Unlike IAM data, it doesn't try to take a single piece of data and make a case that doesn't exist.

The IAM loves to pick out a piece of data such as base salary information and exclude profit sharing and operational performance incentives even though those are major pieces of DL's compensation programs.

The IAM and its supporters here have specifically said they don't like to include non-guaranteed salary components such as profit sharing and operational performance incentives because they aren't guaranteed but then they turn around and argue that all of DL's compensation elements are not guaranteed and can be changed at will by the company.

Yet, DL employees do gain significant parts of their compensation from performance based components while many other airlines don't pay anywhere close to the same levels that DL does.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that one airline's employees gained higher profit sharing percentages than DL employees did - such as AS did this year - but then admit that AS outsources huge portions of their operation which DL does not, even while the IAM tries to argue about the benefit of a union in protecting jobs.

It isn't hard to find a statistic here or there to make a point. It is very difficult to make a cogent argument for the need for more unions if the IAM used total compensation and job security data - what really exists and not COULD exist - but the IAM refuses to make those kind of valid comparisons.

The IAM doesn't want to include any piece of data that shows a balanced picture and that is precisely why DL employees aren't impressed with what the IAM says - and that is not my opinion but the sheer lack of sufficient votes or cards or anything else to actually seat further unions.

DL employees know the whole truth and they aren't and won't be moved by the manipulative attempts the IAM has repeatedly used here and elsewhere and make it pretty clear why the unions have indeed failed at their repeated attempts to add unions among any of the largest DL employee groups.

 

[700UW]

Show the board that the IAM data isnt complete, it is from the BTS and states salary, quite clear.
 
You make accusations and have been asked since yesterday to back them up and you havent, so you failed once again.
 
Many questions have been asked of you and you completely ignore them, I doubt the IAM would put out false information as F&H would be all over it.
 
IAM:1, DL and WT:0

 

[WorldTraveler]

and the fact that it is ONLY salary data is why it is incomplete.

You can defend the IAM's data presentation all you want but DL employees have repeatedly voted and they are clear they want nothing to do with what you are selling.

In fact, the IAM's score is ZERO at DL.