IAM Stepping Up campaign

[topDawg]

And just how many "Post merger hires" do you believe were in a union before they were hired by DL........my guess, zero!

I hope your kidding. I'll bet you that at least one new hire came from ASA, which is an IAM carrier. 

 

[Kev3188]

We'll Kev to be honest it is up in the air.

No pun intended, right?

Seriously though; does your CBA have language that covers weather emergencies?

Last week, where I live, we got a foot of snow.  It didn't just magically appear, we had plenty of notice.  My commute to work usually takes 25 minutes, so I left a couple of hours early, just to make sure.  Imagine, it took me a little over an hour to make it to work, but I was there not only on time, but early.  Now tell me why, if you slack, and don't proactively plan your day, and show up late, or at all, you shouldn't receive discipline???

That's not what he's asking.

I do the same thing you do (though thankfully my commute is shorter). What happens if one day, the only route you can take to work is closed by the authorities. You did all you could, but it's out of your control. Your FSM/PL/foreman dings you for attendance. Now you find your counterpart in ATL in the same situation, but they get no negative entries in their file. How is that equal treatment?
 
 

And just how many "Post merger hires" do you believe were in a union before they were hired by DL........my guess, zero!

My guess: More than you might think.
 
 

I hate to break it to you, but the FAs at Delta had 2 votes(at least) for a union before the merger, each time they vote they get closer, and closer. IIRC the last vote was very tight. Delta people are voting for it too.

+1

 

[WorldTraveler]

where is the running comparison to what AA did in DFW not even two months ago... they had thousands of employees who no-showed because of weather for multiple days.


and Kev, as one of the few pilot participants on this forum, meto can explain FAR 117 but it is the most sweeping regulations that affect pilot operations including in IROPs.

And the DL-ALPA CBA does not waive their right to hotels just because of a weather event.

Does that mean that some pilots ended up sleeping in the crew room? sure they did, just like some of them do in normal times. It is up to each pilot and their scheduler to decide if they have met the requirements of rest.

 

[Kev3188]

No one's debating the impact of FAR 117, least of all me. That's not what I'm asking about.
 
 
 All I want to know is what language his CBA has regarding weather emergencies and/or missed trips.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

 All I want to know is what language his CBA has regarding weather emergencies and/or missed trips.

I don't mean to come off as a jack-ass, but I have to ask:  wouldn't common-sense come into play in weather emergencies instead of language in a CBA? 
 
If I get "snowed in", the place where I work my options are to work from home or take unscheduled leave.  In the end it is just comes down to an agreement between employee and supervisor. 
 
Granted, I don't work at DL, but surely weather-specific language in a CBA can't be the most pressing issue(s) for employees, can it?

 

[WorldTraveler]

of course it does, Frugal.

And you need only look at post after post and situation after situation to see that unions live by rules that they claim protect employees but which end up hurting more people because they refuse to exercise any common sense.

The union environment is built around confrontation and conflict, not negotiation and compromise. It is precisely the reason why labor conflict has been and remains the single largest threat to the industry.

 

[Kev3188]

Actually, it's a fair question.

You'd think common sense would prevail, but often it doesn't. In this case, much of the uproar you're reading about isn't that they ferried a plane of employees to SDF, but rather a theme of unequal treatment. With a CBA, the policies would be applied consistently across all bases. I'm just curious how the pilot group's contract plays in here.

That said, having a CBA doesn't always preclude local agreements ("common sense"). For example, when we were represented at NW, our CBA had weather emergency language in it, and laid out how to either get paid (or not) for time away, and also ensured that people wouldn't be disciplined. As the station GRCC, my manager and I worked out the specifics of what exactly entailed a weather emergency for us (which criteria to use), and how to apply that if/when needed.

 

[Kev3188]

 

of course it does, Frugal.

And you need only look at post after post and situation after situation to see that unions live by rules that they claim protect employees but which end up hurting more people because they refuse to exercise any common sense.

See my above example.
 

The union environment is built around confrontation and conflict, not negotiation and compromise.

Hunh... My experiences- both as a union member and an elected official- were quite the opposite..

Can you share with us what union you were a part of, and how your direct experience as a member led you to this conclusion?

 

[WorldTraveler]

so you and the station mgr came up with policies- that were different from city XTO and HOE? How is that standard?

you want to argue that DL labor relations are built upon "we'll do what we want when we want" but you make your own little local agreements and that is supposed to be superior?

I can look not only at the history of the airline industry in the US plus at what many who call themselves labor leaders promote in this and other locations to see not only the message of conflict and confrontation but also the disastrous results of it.

The vast majority of DL employees do understand how damaging unionized labor relations have been in the airline industry and want nothing to do with them.

 

[Kev3188]

 

so you and the station mgr came up with policies- that were different from city XTO and HOE? How is that standard?

you want to argue that DL labor relations are built upon "we'll do what we want when we want" but you make your own little local agreements and that is supposed to be superior?

I shoulda known you'd come back with a binary response.

No, we agreed on criteria applicable to where we were to fit with a fixed structure. IOW, exactly the opposite of what you claims always occurs. 1-3" of snow might shut ATL down, but that's business as usual in a lot of cities.

Apologies if I missed it, but can you let us know which union you wre a member of? It'll help lend some perspective. Thanks.

 

[WorldTraveler]

1-3" of snow is business as usual in most DL cities where it occurs so there is little need for any deviation from norms.

Again, tell us how a locally negotiated one-on-one agreement provide any sense of consistency, the very thing you chide DL for not providing at the world's largest hub?

unless they deliver alot more than what they have so far, no unions, thank you.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about agreeing to an objective set of criteria/data to reference in order to comply with langauge in a CBA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

If DL employees want what have to offer, they'll vote for it. But they repeatedly have shown no interest in your little locally negotiated agreements that have no more consistency than DL's processes and procedures.

Get off the internet and start campaigning in DL's lounges for DL employees - you've got the badge - if you think what unions have to offer is superior to what they have.

You can get into places that 700 can only dream about.

 

[Kev3188]

Lemme know when you're done pouting, and we can get back to the topic...

Thanks.

 

[700UW]

See he speaks out of his rear.

Do you know at US the ramp voted three times before they unionized?

CSA I believe was also several times.

See I post actual cases and facts, you post brainwashed delta talking points, no go call Ford and Harrison and see what they tell you next.

And I don't have to have access to delta employees, as I'm not an IAM employee nor am I working the organizing campagn, if I was it's simple to get an escort if needed.