IAM Stepping Up campaign

[700UW]

Quote
 

737823, on 30 Jun 2014 - 9:19 PM, said:
 

I just have seen firsthand how destructive organized labor is to industry and our government .

 
 
Kev3188, on 30 Jun 2014 - 9:58 PM, said:
737823, on 30 Jun 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

Tell us more about this alleged "first hand experience."

Family business.

Josh
 

And Kevin said Go On,
 

 
What questions does Kev have?  If they are reasonable questions I will answer them.  Everyone has their own point of view and mine differs from yours and his.  What is so wrong with me visiting LL 1726?  I've also been to 9000 Machinists Place.
 
Josh

Still no answers.

 

[700UW]

Only two more with indefinite protection-DEN and LAX. The IAM screwed up big time but you will never admit it. Who knows maybe they are seeking AS type scope to also outsource HUBS!

Josh

 
 

Today UA announced that after the "market review" we will continue to ground handle our flights at KOA, LIH, and OGG.
ABQ, BUF, CHS, CLT, CMH, DSM, DTW, ELP, FSD, ICT, PNS and SLC (ramp) will be out sourced.
We will also take back all above the wing functions at HNL as will as express handling at PHX and IAD. Total job loss for the outsourcing is over 600 with over 400 gained due to the insoucing. Net job loss approx 200 jobs.

Good and bad news. Today. Transition expected to be completed by October.
 

 

[Airlinelifer]

Our Regional Director visited us and stated the Delta's goal for the ramp is 50% "Benefited" (FT/PT) and 50% "Non-Benefited" (RR).
 
Is ACS the only department at Delta that employs RR's? 

 

[yoyodyne]

Today UA announced that after the "market review" we will continue to ground handle our flights at KOA, LIH, and OGG.
ABQ, BUF, CHS, CLT, CMH, DSM, DTW, ELP, FSD, ICT, PNS and SLC (ramp) will be out sourced.
We will also take back all above the wing functions at HNL as will as express handling at PHX and IAD. Total job loss for the outsourcing is over 600 with over 400 gained due to the insoucing. Net job loss approx 200 jobs.
 
Good and bad news. Today. Transition expected to be completed by October.
 

 
You forgot to mention how the Hawaii stations will be voting to see how much their pay and benefits are cut, as to match competitive rates, and remain in-sourced...

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, DL employs RRs in other departments.

You do know that the difference between what UA and AA is doing with their airport operations and what DL is doing is that DL is not telling full-time workers that they will lose their jobs or be forced to move in order to outsource a station.

DL is also not telling full-time employees that they have to vote for pay cuts at a station level in order to retain their jobs.

DL's goal may be 50% RRs but they are not forcing people out of their current stations or positions but rather, over time, will not replace FT jobs.

given that DL has approx. the same percentage of ACS positions to total employment as AA and UA, it is AA and UA outsourcing that is pushing DL to further reduce the percentage of FT employees, not what happened two decades ago.

Finally, it is Kev himself who has said that he doesn't want to live in the past. 700 wants to keep harping on 7.5 but the fact is that DL employees including on the ramp voted AGAINST union representation even with that kind of history.

And 700 of course wants to selectively forget the history of UA and US that both cut a higher percentage of jobs in the early 2000s during BK than DL did.

 

[Kev3188]

 

Our Regional Director visited us and stated the Delta's goal for the ramp is 50% "Benefited" (FT/PT) and 50% "Non-Benefited" (RR).
 
Is ACS the only department at Delta that employs RR's?

Nope. Res has it now, and GSE maintenance does as well. Not sure if there are more on top of that.
 
 

Finally, it is Kev himself who has said that he doesn't want to live in the past. 700 wants to keep harping on 7.5 but the fact is that DL employees including on the ramp voted AGAINST union representation even with that kind of history.

That's true...and yet in the very next sentence you can't help but do it yourself. Lovely.

And 700 of course wants to selectively forget the history of UA and US that both cut a higher percentage of jobs in the early 2000s during BK than DL did.

Sort of like you selectively forgetting that DL had already taken a buzzsaw to their workforce a few years before?

Or sort of like "selectively" focusing on the percentage while ignoring the actual numbers?

 

[WorldTraveler]

whether you look at the percentages or actual numbers, the point is still the same. DL has done a better job of protecting the jobs of its workers, past and present, than the "unionized" airlines have done.

again, DL isn't asking any FT employees to move in order to retain their job; DL may be converting existing FT jobs to RR as those positions are vacated but other airlines are leveling stations and replacing them with contractors.

Further, it is the unionized airlines that are making it harder for carriers to justify retaining stations as mainline staffed.

once again, this thread is about an IAM campaign and any rational person is going to weigh what the IAM has done at other carriers - and that includes a CURRENT wave of outsourcing and asking employees to vote to retain their jobs and locations- but only if they take paycuts to match outsourcing rates.

we'd all like to see the world of work composed of full-time, benefitted employees but far better than the outsourcing that has swept AA and is sweeping UA is DL's proposal of gradually increasing the number of RRs without impacting the jobs and locations of FT employees.

 

[Kev3188]

 

whether you look at the percentages or actual numbers, the point is still the same.

Not necessarily.

DL has done a better job of protecting the jobs of its workers, past and present, than the "unionized" airlines have done.

According to who?

again, DL isn't asking any FT employees to move in order to retain their job; DL

there are some AMT's in DTW that would disagree with that.

...And Sim techs before them...

...And stock clerks before that...

...And people in ANC airfreight...

etc, etc.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yet we are talking about rampers for whom UA and AA are indeed outsourcing stations.

As for maintenance, they didn't even come up with enough interest to ask for a vote.

And, I suppose there are die hard Michigan fans who wouldn't move but do I remember correctly that DL opened stations like BNA, MSY, SAN, and HNL to maintenance at the same time as a couple dozen positions were leveled in DTW?

and of course Mecca is always an option. Or the PNW will be a big DL draw for those of that mindset.

remember that the impacted workers got first dibs on the new cities that were opened.

If the couple dozen who have been affected don't want to move from DTW I am sure there are others who would be happy to move and leave the junior employees in DTW.

perhaps you see what DL has done to maintenance at DTW as scandalous but I doubt if those couple dozen mechanics are feeling worse off for the opportunity to move south.


I still say that if you want to organize DL workers, ditch the IAM, TWU, AMFA and any other unions that have unions at other airlines as well as the histories that go with them and unionize based around DL specific and independent unions.

 

[robbedagain]

and prey to tell where is AA outsourcing at?  just admit WT  Kev knows as an active DL whats going on at the widget   Ill take his word about the outsourcing over yours any day bec he knows whats actually happening now compared to ur hay days at the wiget

 

[Kev3188]

yet we are talking about rampers for whom UA and AA are indeed outsourcing stations.

As for maintenance, they didn't even come up with enough interest to ask for a vote.

And, I suppose there are die hard Michigan fans who wouldn't move but do I remember correctly that DL opened stations like BNA, MSY, SAN, and HNL to maintenance at the same time as a couple dozen positions were leveled in DTW?

and of course Mecca is always an option. Or the PNW will be a big DL draw for those of that mindset.

remember that the impacted workers got first dibs on the new cities that were opened.

If the couple dozen who have been affected don't want to move from DTW I am sure there are others who would be happy to move and leave the junior employees in DTW.

perhaps you see what DL has done to maintenance at DTW as scandalous but I doubt if those couple dozen mechanics are feeling worse off for the opportunity to move south.


I still say that if you want to organize DL workers, ditch the IAM, TWU, AMFA and any other unions that have unions at other airlines as well as the histories that go with them and unionize based around DL specific and independent unions.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

and prey to tell where is AA outsourcing at?  just admit WT  Kev knows as an active DL whats going on at the widget   Ill take his word about the outsourcing over yours any day bec he knows whats actually happening now compared to ur hay days at the wiget

I know you couldn't stay out of it and yet you have the nerve to tell Josh to stay away.

Why do you constantly have to bash the flippin UNION josh It is so flippin nerve wracking you come on to every dam thread and spread your anti union rhetoric garbage The whole dam world knows it Time to move on. The IAM may have F..K in the UA and HA deals but I for one think they may things a helluva lot better with the TA at US GET OVER THE ANTI UNION CRAP ON EVERY DAM THREAD ITS OLD

Delta used to have a marketing phrase that said "Good goes around"

it doesn't apply just to DL.

Just sayin'

As for what goes on at DL, it is all pretty public information and what isn't public and is available as information to active employees is accessible equally to retirees.

So, no, Kev doesn't have a corner on information that the company provides.

Kev does have a corner on the information from his perspective which includes his world and his friends and coworkers.

for that I appreciate his perspective.


Kev,
"methinks that DL people aren't going to buy into national unions that have the reputations they do both regarding their national politics and spending as well as their track records at other airlines."

but, hey, you only have a couple more decades at the widget (plus or minus) so perhaps you'll come to agree with me that DL employees won't associate with national unions so if this unionization campaign matters, make it an effort of DL people.

 

[robbedagain]

difference WT is that Josh throws his ANTI UNION crap every dam thread  basically the same crap you do with your throwing "DL is the greatest doing it better" theme in every thread too ... So no I don't have the kind of nerve you say I do   Youre one to talk.   As far as Im concerned Kev knows whats going on at DL a helluva lot more than you want to or are willing to admit.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are free to believe who you want.

I will talk about the facts including that 25K former NW employees became non-union employees within the space of a couple weeks and there is no vote schedule for any of them to regain their union membership.

 

[700UW]

Well look at this:
 

In a hotly contested election overseen by the National Mediation Board (NMB), nearly 220 Spirit Airlines ramp agents voted overwhelmingly, by 80 percent, to be represented by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM).

The victorious ramp agents, who work at airports in Fort Lauderdale, FL, Detroit, MI, Atlantic City, NJ and Myrtle Beach, SC began their campaign for IAM representation this spring, and attained the requisite "showing of interest" shortly thereafter. The NMB scheduled a representation election that began June 16th.

"The days of Spirit management unilaterally dictating wages and working conditions ends today,” declared Daniel Krampert, a Spirit Ramp Agent in Atlantic City. “This vote begins a new era where we have a voice in determining our future."

"I congratulate and welcome the ramp agents at Spirit Airlines into the IAM family," said IAM Transportation GVP Sito Pantoja. "Every ramp agent at Spirit should know they now have the IAM's full support and resources at their disposal to achieve the contract they deserve. I'd also like to thank District 141 Organizing Director Joe Stassi and his team for doing a great job on this campaign."

The IAM prevailed over an aggressive anti-union campaign by Spirit management that included numerous and flagrant violations of the federal Railway Labor Act, including a sudden and significant pay raise for all employees, except the ramp agents seeking IAM representation. Federal labor law prohibits granting or withholding pay increases that are designed to influence the outcome of a union representation election.

"Ramp agents at Spirit should be applauded for their courage and conviction in seeking dignity, respect and fairness in their profession," said District 141 President Rich Delaney. "Today's victory over harassment and intimidation is a win for the entire labor movement."

The IAM represents more than 110,000 fleet service, mechanics, flight attendants, customer service, reservation and related airline employees. ​

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For more information about the IAM's Spirit Airlines organizing campaign, please visit www.iam4spirit.com. ​

 
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