IAM Stepping Up campaign

[Thomas Paine]

Good luck with that.
Josh

maybe we should push for "Right to consultants " laws where we can demand their services but not have to pay? Maybe we should outlaw usuary as well.

 

[700UW]

Good luck with that.

Josh

Seems to have worked fine over the years.
 
So its ok for a employee to benefit from a Union and a CBA, but they shouldnt have to pay in your mind, so whats wrong with me using your company's services for free?
 
Once again,
 
Dont let the facts get in your way!

 

[Thomas Paine]

So, make it a choice.Most civilized countries outlawed the closed shop. It's illegal in Europe. Forcing agency fee? Even that seems to be a rare practice anymore, with the airlines and railroads in the US being amongst the few labor groups left where that is practiced.They served a purpose in the sweatshop days. They've forced the creation of a half-dozen different federal agencies and statutes, and made themselves irrelevant in the process.But it's time to stop forcing compulsory membership. If someone thinks there's a benefit to belonging to a union, let them. It would force the unions to be responsive, accountable, and relevant.Today, it's too easy to just continue to collect the dues and do the bare minimum to prevent 51% from being outraged enough to force a representation election.

It is a choice, there is no compulsory membership thanks to you guys, they just have to pay fees germane to enforcement of the contract. Don't want to pay Fees? Then don't apply for a job where they have contracts and unions, its not like Unions control the majority of the jobs out there, only the better ones, and they make them that way.

 

[737823]

Indicate where I said people are entitled to representation please. I never said anything to that effect. My position is to simply become employed or maintain employment no one should be forced to join a union OR pay an agency fee of any amount. I understand you may associate this as freeriding, and yes I get that the union by law has to represent non members at the unions expense. That's the way the laws are written, hey 700 justifies the abrogation and concessions at US this way saying "that's the law...". As for free riding why don't you similarly decry those that benefit from R&D capital expenditures of corporations, organizations and universities for the externalities (unintended benefit third parties enjoy) in medicine, technology, etc?

Josh

 

[700UW]

If they receive their pay, their benefits, their retirement and everything else that the CBA provides they need to pay for whats germane to the CBA.
 
Nothing in life is free.
 
And even if they are a non-member by law the union has to represent them.
 
So I am going to use your company's services for free.
 
And the law provides under the RLA that there are no free loaders.

 

[BABABOOY]

When you permanently lose at least 20% of your pay, see what you pay for medical go up several thousands of dollars a year, see your pension and retiree medical taken away to boost up profits and executive compensation then rejoice because they give you a tiny share back, and yes one month is a tiny share when you add up the value of the concessions , then something is wrong with you.

Permanently 20% is simply NOT true.   (if you work in the airline industry you would know NOTHING is Permanent) Did you look at my previous numbers over the last 12 years that 
I posted on this thread?
Medical did go up however NOT thousands a year.   Pension was frozen, 401K match implemented
In addition to pay  increases, Both shared rewards and Profit sharing implemented.  BTW profit sharing was just announced to be 8.2% of our Pay.. 
compare that to my peers at the other carriers.... I believe AA voted for NO profit sharing....
in RESEARCH and looking at my peers in the Airline industry we have it pretty good.  Can pay be better? of course, will
it?  I just look at history and know it will..  The Company is doing terrific financially which also brings piece of mind and security.
Something that my peers at UAL do not have at the moment.    
All this and you think "something is wrong with me"    I believe that statement says much more about
YOU than me.  

 

[BABABOOY]

That mindset is simply proof of just how good DL is a manufacturing opinion, and conditioning people. Those that have yet to outsource their cognition, or dare to speak up are permanently branded not being "team players." In group/out group is alive & well at the Widget...

So the Majority of us in  Inflight are just easily manipulated huh?  because we come to a different conclusion than you?
Not speaking up? Branded?  That is interesting. .  Many know how to speak up when they see something wrong or unjust. Both from the Pro side and anti side.  The difference may be in how they bring it up. Professionally. (lacking by some) Those "professional" with problems bring so with possible solutions.  Not the mentality of "Here!  this is whats wrong, now fix it"  Evidence of this can be seen everyday on the Delta sponsored FB page.  

 

[Kev3188]

Anytime you want to stop projecting your insecurities on to me & the rest of the board would be great. Thanks in advance.

BTW, you cannot decry what you perceive as painting with a broad brush, only to do it yourself in the next sentence.

As for offering solutions? That's how I-and most people I know- approach problem solving. Problem is, under the current system, it never works. And yeah, those that don't "go along to get along" are branded as not being team players. Your not seeing it doesn't mean it's not occuring. With all due respect, as someone that flies just enough to maintain your medical and as one who (I'm guessing?) Flies mainly international, you may be a bit removed from what many people are experiencing.

IMO, in ACS, it's the rule, not the exception. If I thought there was a better alternative than collective bargaining, i'd push for it. But I haven't (FIT is a paper tiger) so here we are.

BTW,I've never accused you of being unprofessional, or treated you accordingly. It'll be nice when you afford me the same respect.

 

[WorldTraveler]

That mindset is simply proof of just how good DL is a manufacturing opinion, and conditioning people. Those that have yet to outsource their cognition, or dare to speak up are permanently branded not being "team players." In group/out group is alive & well at the Widget...

wait a minute.

If you want to be respected as having the ability to think for yourself and not be painted with broad strokes just for having a dissenting opinion, why can't you accept that someone else can be fully intelligent and informed and not choose to believe the same as you - with no influence from anyone including mgmt?

if you and anyone else wants to eliminate group branding, then they have to stop doing it to others.

interestingly, you express a desire for exactly that in your post above but then paint with the same broad brush you don't want to used against you.

I support both you and Baba for your right to believe what you believe is best. ultimately, change comes down to the majority but I don't for a minute believe that there aren't people who believe differently from the majority.

 

[yoyodyne]

It is a choice, there is no compulsory membership thanks to you guys, they just have to pay fees germane to enforcement of the contract. Don't want to pay Fees? Then don't apply for a job where they have contracts and unions, its not like Unions control the majority of the jobs out there, only the better ones, and they make them that way.

So, using you logic, if you don't like the fact that Delta doesn't have unions, then quit, and go work for a unionized airline...

 

[BABABOOY]

BTW,I've never accused you of being unprofessional, or treated you accordingly. It'll be nice when you afford me the same respect.

Please point out where I accused YOU? 

 

[southwind]

It is a choice, there is no compulsory membership thanks to you guys, they just have to pay fees germane to enforcement of the contract. Don't want to pay Fees? Then don't apply for a job where they have contracts and unions, its not like Unions control the majority of the jobs out there, only the better ones, and they make them that way.

So your saying if you go to work for a company that doesn't have a union don't b!tch and moan about not having one......got it!

 

[Kev3188]

wait a minute.

A minute? We've waited years for meaningful change. This company asked all of us to "give [the company] a chance." We did. It's not working. The end.

 

[southwind]

A minute? We've waited years for meaningful change. This company asked all of us to "give [the company] a chance." We did. It's not working. The end.

That's fantastic! And I'm sure you'll get another chance to try and get a union in! Last time the majority voted "NO", meaybe next time you'll get what you want!

 

[Kev3188]

That's the goal.