IAM Stepping Up campaign

[737823]

And Kev knows every detail of DLs staffing at all stations? Pretty sure he said at one point their goal was 50% of head count at the station level. Doesn't mean 50% of hours worked are RR hours or that even every station is currently staffed with RR at that level.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Not hard to get a fairly clear idea on system numbers. Many of us have been told the 50/50 goal in meetings with upper mgmt. as well.

 

[700UW]

See Kevin, joshie knows it all, even though he isnt an IAM member, nor a TWU member, nor is he employed by AA, DL, US or UA but he knows more than you who actually works at DL.

 

[Kev3188]

It's okay; I think the idea that I can actually do math just throws him off a bit...

 

[WorldTraveler]

pay raises and ps are 2 different pays  ps is 1 time  and at DL it can and has been sliced  at DL they dont have to give pay raises   whereas in a union its in the contract

 
you have used the same argument that the DL pilot profit sharing increased because of their pay raises.

you CANNOT deny that the same principle applies to other DL personnel. A pay raise this year becomes the base on which profit sharing is used.

and again DL employees HAVE profit sharing. The IAM and TWU gave it away.

I am certain that most TWU and IAM employees would love to have the equivalent of an extra month's pay - but they don't.

and DL employees are still getting pay raises... they don't have to choose between a pay raise or profit sharing.

 

And those outsourced station effected employees have a no layoff clause, and can transfer to keep their jobs, does the RR at DL have that option?
 
With only one raise and 50% of ACS being RRs.

and yet DL's policy for displaced employees is no different other than DL does not allow displaced employees to displace someone who is in a job/location that is not affected.... but we've been thru that about a dozen times already.
 
if DL didn't do as good as what unionized employees have, DL employees would have a reason to seek out a union.

the fact that DL is providing a compensation and work rules similar to or superior to what other airlines offer even when those carriers use unions, the justification is just not there.

No scare tactics.

50/50 system wide is the company's stated goal. I would say most line stations (except for MEM) are pretty close to that now, with the hubs being less so, but trending closer to the mark...

yes it is the stated goal.

but DL isn't there and when it all comes to pass there is no assurance that the unionized airlines will retain the amount of jobs inhouse as DL does.

AS has outsourced most of its ramp, UA bought the right to eliminate dozens of stations, AA just outsourced dozens of stations.

to argue that unions are holding onto jobs is just not substantiated by reality.

 

[swamt]

that is pure unadulterated rubbish and it will be called as such.

DL employees have the RICHEST profit sharing in the history of US aviation; no other carrier has EVER paid over $500 in profit sharing to its employees.

Despite reducing the PERCENT Of profit sharing - which was agreed to by the unionized pilots as well as "imposed" on the non-contract employees, DL employees enjoyed the highest percentage of their salary EVER in profit sharing - more than 8% or roughly equivalent to one month's salary.

one thing that can be said for you continuing to raise the issue of profit sharing is that it provides yet one more opportunity to show that the IAM and TWU GAVE AWAY profit sharing at the very time that the industry was consolidating and every analyst and mgmt. team was predicting much higher profits.

but I'm sure since mgmt. said it, it was viewed as incorrect by labor.

Stupid labor leaders who once again were unable to understand the industry and figure out how to obtain gains for their members that come even close to what DL "gave" its non-contract workers.

Nonetheless, the industry is making record profits and DL employees obtained 8% profit sharing IN ADDITION to the pay raises which they also received.

There is no basis whatsoever to say that ANY union in the US obtained pay raises anywhere close to the size that DL employees received in 2013, DL is on track to top that again, and DL employee average salaries are ALREADY above average for the rest of the industry.

there is a reason why DL employees want nothing to do with unions and the very concrete concept of MONEY is precisely why.

all the repeat votes in the world aren't going to convince an employee to vote against their own best financial interests.


and, BTW, has it ever crossed your mind that AA, UA, and US are HAPPY to see DL people get these kinds of big pay raises and profit sharing checks? There is nothing that any of those companies like more than to see union members on this website complain AMONG THEMSELVES about how their unions are failing them while at the very same time they look for every opportunity they can to shrink their union workforces just as NW did with the AMFA strike.

The TWU and IAM aren't about to win anything based on their track record which has cost their employees more relative to what DL's non-union employees make.

Depending your definition of "Richest", and I'm pretty sure you meant $5000 to employees and not $500.  But SWA just announced larger than that going to each employee.  Now if you mean the total amount that Delta is applying to the PS fund, then yes it may very well be the richest, but it is also one of the largest amount of employees that will have to divy it all up which in turn will make for a smaller amount to each and every employee eligible.  No one really cares about the richest amount the co applies to the fund (although it does come into play, don't get me wrong here), but most all employees care about how much is actually going to each and every employee as individuals, in which case I believe that to be SWA, and especially if you consider both profit sharing and 401K's as well as all retirement programs, SWA has all legacy carriers smoked in this catagory, period.  I wouldn't call the $500 per employee (pretty sure you meant $5000 per) the richest out there, but it is very good possitive news and I offer my congrats to the employees for making it happen...

 

[WorldTraveler]

It is $500 million in profit sharing for all employees.
Given that 80% of DL employees don't belong to a union, the notion that only WN employees can get large profit sharing isn't true.
DL employees gained 8% plus in ps or about an extra month's pay and they also got pay raises.

 

[robbedagain]

It is $500 million in profit sharing for all employees.
Given that 80% of DL employees don't belong to a union, the notion that only WN employees can get large profit sharing isn't true.
DL employees gained 8% plus in ps or about an extra month's pay and they also got pay raises.

so only DL can get the largest ps and split it among employees   thats basically what youre saying here.  DL sliced 33% off of the employees profit sharing   Pilots got 17% raises this yr alone regardless whether you want to admit it or not  It was in the news

 

[southwind]

Like the way you blame me, simply because the majority doesn't I don't agree with your agenda !

There you guys go again. There is no majority of one when you speak for yourself.
 
BTW, strain a muscle in you brain tossing suitcases into a cargo bay?

You do know that the brain is a muscle as well. Try not to strain that muscle if you really are using it from your comment above?.

Again, to end this arguement, the majority of FA's have decided "No Union"............again!
 
 

I have ZERO problem with Union drum beaters. You can ask 700, we have had a few disagreements though. But he's still my union brother. I don't think you can understand that?

 
Like the union brethren who backed the AMFA strike at NW?
 

He is a back shop mechanic.

Wow! You say that like it's a terrible thing. Never have I dis-repected peeps who load bags! And again, at least I work here!
 
 

Was he NWA or always been DL? He doesn't seem to be one of those AMFA supporters either.

Trust me, I know all about unions and have never, nor want to belong to one.
As I said, in an earlier post, had family memebers from my father, grandfather and uncles who belonged to unions at EAL, and those unions are "JUST" as responsible for Easterns demise, as management was.
So please, don't insult me with "I don't know anything about unions".....theres over 100 years worth of union in my family!
 
 

I believe he was always Delta, and he made a bet with Kevin last year and lost and wont pay his bet off, he is a welcher.

Doesn't matter where I was but, where I am and where I'm going.
Do you always "Schuck and Jive" when backed into a corner?
 
 

That explains things a little clearer then. The greatest exposure to Unions he probably has at the moment is former NW AMFA guys. I think if they were my reference point I might be a little trepidations on wanting to vote for a union also. Honestly, no joke if they were representing me I would probably consider taking a position in management?

Oh and you should never welch on a bet. It's just bad form.

I've yet to run into one person at DL, that even says the word "Union"!
Your right about that but, all it is, is 700's way of changing the subject!
 
 

256 pages with just a couple of outsiders going around and around not accomplishing anything. 
and that fact remains, 2 years into a card drive and NO vote lol.... We just had our latest new hire 
class join us and more are coming in the fall.  The IAM campaign for F/A's may be a bit splashy with 
lots of mailing and tables but they are not accomplishing anything.  If you are actually IN the lounges 
you will see VERY FEW approach their propaganda.  And before anyone says "oh they may be scared" 
give me a break and give the f/a's more credit.  We can, and DO think for ourselves.   The IAM F/A 
campaign is at BEST, STAGNATE.

^^^THIS^^^
 
 

6% as millions have been spent against unions.

What percentage of members dues was spent, trying and failing to get in DL's doors?

 

[WorldTraveler]

so only DL can get the largest ps and split it among employees   thats basically what youre saying here.  DL sliced 33% off of the employees profit sharing   Pilots got 17% raises this yr alone regardless whether you want to admit it or not  It was in the news

no, that is not what I said and it is not the truth.

WN has paid handsome profit sharing for years. I have never denied that.

DL, as part of its reorganization, realized the importance of restructuring its compensation and created a very rich profit sharing plan.

DL employees are enjoying the richest profit sharing the airline industry has seen in terms of total dollars.

but as swamt notes, DL is a larger airline. On a per employee basis, the most recent year is fairly comparable.

DL's profit sharing disbursement to its employees continues to grow.

in contrast, the unions at the other legacy airlines COMPLETLY missed the financial turnaround that was coming to the airline industry and gave away profit sharing at the time when it most mattered - and then tried to justify their decision by saying that their pay raises were better.

DL employees got bigger profit sharing as a percent of salary than any of the pay raises that any of the unions negotiated - and DL employees also got pay raises.

just give it up with the whole "the pilots got a good payout but the rest of the employees got screwed."

it is simply not accurate. DL employees ACROSS THE BOARD received the same percent in profit sharing in 2013 just like they have in previous years.

DL employees in all workgroups received pay raises that were used to increase their profit sharing in that year and subsequent years.

the only thing continued discussions by union supporters provides is the opportunity to highlight that the unions totally screwed up with getting good money for their members while DL did it EQUALLY for its employees - union and non-union and DL has used profit sharing as a key means to make DL employees compensation the fastest growing in the industry.

there is no denying those facts and any attempts by labor to try and deny it only serve to show what labor lost and DL employees gained, for all but the pilots without any influence of a union.

 

[700UW]

You are a numbers person, they certainly did not get the same percentage payout, they reduced it 33% from 15% to 10%.
 
How is the pilots already receiving 13% pay raise and the rest getting a max of 6%?

 

[WorldTraveler]

ALL DL employees received the same percentage - so the notion that DL non-contract employees got shafted is incorrect. Pilots voted for the same deal and accepted the percentage reduction.

and the real point is that ALL DL employees received larger total profit sharing.

I'm a numbers person, sure.

I and the pilots and the non-union employees ALL can understand that if you accept a lower percentage but end up getting a higher total payout, it's a win.

Why you and the union ilk keep pushing a flawed concept that the non-union employees got screwed either relative to the pilots or in the entire concept of profit sharing is beyond me - but it shows how badly the IAM and you have done in properly understanding and communicating the issues that really might matter in favor of harping on minutiae that every DL employee understands is inconsequential.

 

[swamt]

It is $500 million in profit sharing for all employees.
Given that 80% of DL employees don't belong to a union, the notion that only WN employees can get large profit sharing isn't true.
DL employees gained 8% plus in ps or about an extra month's pay and they also got pay raises.

I stand corrected on the amount.  I never said that a union company (80% SWA) would get more PS than a non-union company (80% non-union Delta).  So not sure why you directed that in my direction.  I think we are talking about the same amounts to the employees.  Only at Delta they will have to spread it amoungst more folks at about double what we will have to spread here at SWA.  Both Delta and SWA are reporting record numbers across the boards.  I agree with your theory that you don't have to be union to be treated well, as Delta and JB are very good at doing so, but, it is for one reason and one reason only;  to keep the unions out for as long as possible.  Now at JB the pilots have just started a snow-ball effect by bringing in a union, pretty sure the F/A's and mechs will follow suit soon, just in case there is a merger in their futures...

 

[southwind]

How hasn't it worked?

You still willingly show up for work at DL and there aren't chains on your feet.

Josh

^^^THIS^^^
 
 

So you think he should just quit his job rather than try to seek improvements? The man to me sounds like he loves his job? He just thinks it could be even better and organization is where he knows those improvements will come from.

He should do what makes him happy. If he's content to stay at DL with no guarantee of being in a union, and year after year, being disappointed, stay. If not, look for a company who already has union representation!

Because unionization isnt a quick process.
 
DL cut Kevin's and others profit sharing by 33% from a 15% payout to a 10% payout.
 
Some DL employees got a 2% raise while others got a 3% raise, which was eaten up by their increase in health insurance.
 
Plus Delta spent millions on changing the threshold so it takes longer to collect enough cards.
 
And you do realize it took four times to unionize ramp at US and five for the CSAs and Res.

Why is it ok for unions, (Which I look at as corporations) to have rule changes but, not the actual company?

 

[WorldTraveler]

I stand corrected on the amount.  I never said that a union company (80% SWA) would get more PS than a non-union company (80% non-union Delta).  So not sure why you directed that in my direction.  I think we are talking about the same amounts to the employees.  Only at Delta they will have to spread it amoungst more folks at about double what we will have to spread here at SWA.  Both Delta and SWA are reporting record numbers across the boards.  I agree with your theory that you don't have to be union to be treated well, as Delta and JB are very good at doing so, but, it is for one reason and one reason only;  to keep the unions out for as long as possible.  Now at JB the pilots have just started a snow-ball effect by bringing in a union, pretty sure the F/A's and mechs will follow suit soon, just in case there is a merger in their futures...

my response is not directed at you specifically but at the notion that some seem to think that profit sharing isn't something that any well-run company that wants to motivate its people would use.

I have to challenge your notion that a non-union company pays profit sharing or any other solid compensation solely to keep the unions out.

it might explain why DL employees enjoy better compensation than their non union peers. after all, if a company has to deal with a union, then why should they do anything to pay their employees more than the bare minimum they can get by with.

By that token, DL employees have long benefitted from above average compensation and aren't about to seek a union if it means that the company's efforts to keep the union out and higher pay get changed to a union with lower pay. Who would every choose that?

but your real error is in arguing that non-union companies only compensate their employees well to keep the union out.. If that is the case, then why does WN bother to pay its people as well as they do?

the logic doesn't work.

DL like WN recognizes that well paid employees take care of their customers well which results in better revenues for the company. Since BK and DL's commitment to that philosophy - which really has roots deep in DL's history - DL and WN have BOTH had above average employee compensation and profitability.

Why some people try to come up with one set of reasons for why the formula works for a non-union company and a different for a union company is incredible.