IAM Stepping Up campaign

[WeAAsles]

and yet some or at least the one's I've spoken to DL employees believe they give enough to satisfy their "needs"

so, some people want a union so they think they can be in control while others are willing to have less control but end up better off because of it.

I see you were able to use the word SOME here.

It's not hard to see why the vast majority of  people can subject their own need to be in control in order to obtain greater benefits not only for themselves but also for the company.

If you wrote in this manner your arguments would come off as more credible rather than slightly sanctimonious.

And if I did work for DL I would be offended by the fact that you think you speak for me when you do not. Even if I actually agreed with you.

 

[WeAAsles]

WT from reading many of your posts I believe that it's becoming apparent to me that you don't understand the term of "Practical Application"? You're a numbers man. A man who only see's the world through equations and doesn't ever factor in the variables or even the fact that those variables exist in the first place.

The world doesn't fit into a neat tidy box you know. It's a complicated jumble that you have to be nimble if you want to navigate.

I'll admit that this conversation has been interesting to me but I don't think it will get anywhere. Because for anything that I try to expand on for you, you have to take it and try and put it back in your box. 

You're probably not a bad person, it's just who you are.  

 

[WorldTraveler]

IOW, you can't really prove your notion that DL people are so poorly paid.

yes, I'm a numbers man.

So are employees who pay their bills. They don't pay those bills on the basis of notions.

they pay their bills with real dollars.

If there is some theory that a union can deliver more money, then it should translate into, wait, practice.


DL people can't be 1. as high of a percentage in RRs as you claim compared to the 91% top out at AA and 2. underpaid relative to DL workers at the top out level and 3. have a lower average pay too.

Even in high school math, it should be apparent that math doesn't work.

In fact, DL pays its employees more on average than AA and US employees, the percentage of RRs is not near as high on a system level as you seem to think it is (hint: DL has HUGE hubs which have a high percentage of FT employees), and DL employees do indeed have higher average salary which can be borne out by looking at SEC and DOT data.

I'm not sure where the division between majority and vast majority comes but 50% plus 1 person in multiple job categories at DL have said they don't want a union.

more than 60,000 DL employees have said no to unions.

regroup and try again if you feel so inclined.

 

[WeAAsles]

IOW, you can't really prove your notion that DL people are so poorly paid.

yes, I'm a numbers man.

So are employees who paid their bills. They don't pay those bills on the basis of notions.

they pay their bills with real dollars.

If there is some theory that a union can deliver more money, then it should translate into, wait, practice.


DL people can't be 1. as high of a percentage in RRs as you claim compared to the 91% top out at AA and 2. underpaid relative to DL workers at the top out level and 3. have a lower average pay too.

Even in high school math, it should be apparent that math doesn't work.

In fact, DL pays its employees more on average than AA and US employees, the percentage of RRs is not near as high on a system level as you seem to think it is (hint: DL has HUGE hubs which have a high percentage of FT employees), and DL employees do indeed have higher average salary which can be borne out by looking at SEC and DOT data.

I'm not sure where the division between majority and vast majority comes but 50% plus 1 person in multiple job categories at DL have said they don't want a union.

more than 60,000 DL employees have said no to unions.

regroup and try again if you feel so inclined.

No I think I'm about done here. I'm not really one for arguing just for the sake of arguing or admiring my own words if they're falling on deaf ears.

I brought up the point of how many RED marks you had awhile back in the thread and you went on the defensive claiming that it was Union people giving them to you and you didn't care. You're wrong, it's your own peers who have been giving them to you. In regards to EVERYTHING I've seen you post you never give an inch. You're right and everyone else is wrong. Some of those people you argue with seem to be very intelligent in my opinion. You made some great points with them and I have agreed quite often on the things you've wrote regarding the industry. But you have also been wrong many times as well and never open up to their perspective at all.

I'm sorry but I consider it a sad commentary for a person to think he is always right and never open to other possibilities. Pride and vanity are also horrible sins. I doubt I'll be debating with you any more since there's no point in debating a man who knows everything.

The good thing about our conversation on here is that there is plenty of material now for maybe the readers to go back and rummage through and learn a few things? Hopefully that's something they'll do? 

And BTW, Delta is just a company. You shouldn't let it be your life or cult.

 

[southwind]

Keep on drivin' that wedge- you're doing a great job!

BTW, you exposed to a lot of paint fumes in that back shop of yours?

Like the way you blame me, simply because the majority doesn't agree with your agenda !
 
BTW, strain a muscle in you brain tossing suitcases into a cargo bay?

 

[southwind]

And BTW, Delta is just a company. You shouldn't let it be your life or cult.

Now try to explain that to the resident union drum beater, 700!

 

[WeAAsles]

Like the way you blame me, simply because the majority doesn't I don't agree with your agenda !

There you guys go again. There is no majority of one when you speak for yourself.
 
BTW, strain a muscle in you brain tossing suitcases into a cargo bay?

You do know that the brain is a muscle as well. Try not to strain that muscle if you really are using it from your comment above?.

 

[WeAAsles]

Now try to explain that to the resident union drum beater, 700!

I have ZERO problem with Union drum beaters. You can ask 700, we have had a few disagreements though. But he's still my union brother. I don't think you can understand that?

 

[Kev3188]

The idea that being pro labor is something to be ashamed of runs rampant at the Widget. These cats are simply products of their environment...

 

[southwind]

 

Like the way you blame me, simply because the majority doesn't I don't agree with your agenda !

There you guys go again. There is no majority of one when you speak for yourself.
 
BTW, strain a muscle in you brain tossing suitcases into a cargo bay?

You do know that the brain is a muscle as well. Try not to strain that muscle if you really are using it from your comment above?.

 
 
 
 

Did the majority of FA's decide not to have a union vote or did I decide the FA's could not have a vote.
Twist the words any way you want to fit your narrative, the majority of FA's have spoken.......again!
 
 

I have ZERO problem with Union drum beaters. You can ask 700, we have had a few disagreements though. But he's still my union brother. I don't think you can understand that?

And I have ZERO problems with anyone voicing their opinion of the negatives of union representation and believe potential voters should be aware of those negatives, unlike yourself and other drum beaters here!
 

The idea that being pro labor is something to be ashamed of runs rampant at the Widget. These cats are simply products of their environment...

No one I know of at DL is ashamed of anything! And as you, are a product of "Your" environment!
Last time I checked, no one was being forced, against their will, to stay at "The Widget"!

 

[WeAAsles]

Did the majority of FA's decide not to have a union vote or did I decide the FA's could not have a vote.
Twist the words any way you want to fit your narrative, the majority of FA's have had spoken.......again!

Yes you are correct. The majority of FA's at that moment 3 and a half years ago spoke and said they were not interested in representation. That vote was actually an excellent participation rate of 92% voting.

The results were 9,544 votes against the union, and 9,216 in favor of the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) or other unions. The margin was 328 votes, or 1.7 percent.

Now I personally do not consider a 51% no or yes vote to be a mandate in either direction. Either side could easily have a rethink of their decision at that time and the scales could be tipped? Had that decision been closer to 80% voting no I may be questioning why any union is even bothering? But that's not the case here obviously.

Another thing is that this is now the IAM picking up the baton from the AFA. The IAM is a lot larger and has far more resources to fight against the anti union campaign that DL will absolutely engage in than the AFA did.

I think the outcome next go around will have a very different ultimate decision? 
 
 
And I have ZERO problems with anyone voicing their opinion of the negatives of union representation and believe potential voters should be aware of those negatives, unlike yourself and other drum beaters here!

So provide your list of negatives then. But please refrain from using talking points that I have already answered further back in the thread. We have no need for redundancies.
 
No one I know of at DL is ashamed of anything! And as you, are a product of "Your" environment!
Last time I checked, no one was being forced, against their will, to stay at "The Widget"!

May I ask what your particular title is with Delta Airlines? Are you an FA? Have you ever been a part of a union? Are you a part of team management?

I'm an AA, TWU represented FSC. My interest in this lies in my being a Union supporter and a part of the industry that I feel would benefit workers from full and complete Unionization. Basically if DL were unionized I feel their members would benefit but I would as well.  

 

[700UW]

He is a back shop mechanic.

 

[WeAAsles]

The idea that being pro labor is something to be ashamed of runs rampant at the Widget. These cats are simply products of their environment...

Fox news also has pretty colors. But all it is from my viewing is a bunch of angry white guys and hot women for eye candy.

Lots of fluff with no substance.

 

[WeAAsles]

He is a back shop mechanic.

Was he NWA or always been DL? He doesn't seem to be one of those AMFA supporters either.

 

[700UW]

I believe he was always Delta, and he made a bet with Kevin last year and lost and wont pay his bet off, he is a welcher.