IAM Stepping Up campaign

[WeAAsles]

During layoffs or Station closures at AA over the years besides having the RIGHT to fill a vacancy or bump a Junior member in another city our members were given a "Special Moving Allowance" that afforded them an extra $12.500 on top of moving expenditures. There were actually a few people who received the allowance more than once in a year due to their contractual rights and cities continual downsizing. I actually knew one person who received it 5 times. That's a whopping $62,500 that that guy got that year, lol. I did know a few who got it 3 times. 

On top of that (pre bankruptcy gun) we had system and station protection. What that was was depending on your DOH and status (Full time or Part Time) the company HAD to provide you a job in your status if you so chose.

Does DL have anything along those lines currently?    

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't have a lot of time to debate here today since I have a World Cup VIP ticket with my name on it this afternoon but....

yes, I'll engage in fair debate with those who do the same.

I enjoy your participation here so I can debunk the claims of the TWU and IAM at the same time.

the simple fact is that no one outside of DL HDQ knows the distribution of employees at each pay scale.

Kev can give his perspective and I am glad to read it but it reflects his world. Like it or not, the company does have access to information as a non-union company that unionized employees might have via their union. Even unions don't have employee specific pay information, though.

having that information or not is part of the choice DL employees will make in whether they want a union or not.

but having information also has implications - and DL employees don't see a need to change a system that works for them - with or without the details.

as for the whole ready reserve issue, as long as ANY company can find people to work at a given wage, they will pay it.

It is no different than jet fuel or IT services. If someone will provide the service for the price a company is willing to pay, there is a market.

and the station closures at AA and UA are both proof that when unions are unwilling to find solutions to lower costs, then the company will move to do that and cut jobs in that city in the process.

The very reason why DL uses the RR system is to provide the staffing flexibility to maintain as many full-time jobs as it can while supplementing the staffing model with low cost employees

In fact, Kevin has even posted here that by his calculations, RRs probably cost DL less than outsourced employees because there is no middleman

we've been thru the job transfer procedures but DL's procedures are identical to other airlines except that DL does not allow an employee who has been affected by a displacement to bump an existing employee out of their place.

Given that there are far fewer employees who are displaced than could be bumped by someone who is displaced, DL's system makes more sense.

further, DL has consistently found jobs for impacted workers, many times in lower cost of living stations, even if people don't like ATL.

In the reduction mechanics at DTW, DL at the same time opened several new cities to DL MTC including SAN, MSY, and BNA, IIRC, and the displaced mechanics got preference over any other mechanics who wanted to bid into that city.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't have a lot of time to debate here today since I have a World Cup VIP ticket with my name on it this afternoon but....

yes, I'll engage in fair debate with those who do the same.

I enjoy your participation here so I can debunk the claims of the TWU and IAM at the same time.

Give it a shot. But at the same time do not ignore items that are given to you in return or I am back to ignoring you as an unreliable source for the debate.

the simple fact is that no one outside of DL HDQ knows the distribution of employees at each pay scale.

Maybe not to a precise percentage but the averages can speak volumes as well. 

Kev can give his perspective and I am glad to read it but it reflects his world. Like it or not, the company does have access to information as a non-union company that unionized employees might have via their union. Even unions don't have employee specific pay information, though.

having that information or not is part of the choice DL employees will make in whether they want a union or not.

That's a supposition that you can not claim. Being compensated well is every persons true #1 priority.

but having information also has implications - and DL employees don't see a need to change a system that works for them - with or without the details.

Supposition. You do not speak for ALL of the employees of DL and no one does.

as for the whole ready reserve issue, as long as ANY company can find people to work at a given wage, they will pay it.

Unfortunately agreed. People have to stand up to demand better or they will be stepped on. That's their choice.

It is no different than jet fuel or IT services. If someone will provide the service for the price a company is willing to pay, there is a market.

Yep.

and the station closures at AA and UA are both proof that when unions are unwilling to find solutions to lower costs, then the company will move to do that and cut jobs in that city in the process.

Agreed again since market forces especially for an airline need to be factored in. Unless the airlines were willing to subsidize small airports from the revenue they get in hubs? Airline workers are not the only ones being hearded into hubs or large cities but the American populace as well.

The very reason why DL uses the RR system is to provide the staffing flexibility to maintain as many full-time jobs as it can while supplementing the staffing model with low cost employees

Debatable unless one could actually see the models used?

In fact, Kevin has even posted here that by his calculations, RRs probably cost DL less than outsourced employees because there is no middleman

Is a person better off having a job under those RR guidelines than not being afforded it at all and continuing to seek something else? That's up to the individual though.

we've been thru the job transfer procedures but DL's procedures are identical to other airlines except that DL does not allow an employee who has been affected by a displacement to bump an existing employee out of their place.

I believe in the seniority system. Although it doesn't reward a good employee over a bad one it also does serve though to keep out rampant favoritism. How to be able to serve both equally is certainly an issue.

Given that there are far fewer employees who are displaced than could be bumped by someone who is displaced, DL's system makes more sense.

From a business perspective yes. From a personal one, no.

further, DL has consistently found jobs for impacted workers, many times in lower cost of living stations, even if people don't like ATL.

I am a supporter of COLA's depending on geographical locations. Someone who works in DFW should not make the same wages as someone in NYC, IMO.

In the reduction mechanics at DTW, DL at the same time opened several new cities to DL MTC including SAN, MSY, and BNA, IIRC, and the displaced mechanics got preference over any other mechanics who wanted to bid into that city.

That's how it's done under the Union seniority structure you know.

 

[700UW]

I enjoy your participation here so I can debunk the claims of the TWU and IAM at the same time.

You are being dishonest once again.

 

You are the only one who wants people out of the discussion as you cant refute the facts.
 
So when are you going to refute the two flyers I posted?
 
When are you going to answer why Richard Anderson and the executives work under a contract while they are spending millions so the DL employees dont work under a contract?
 
And how much more would DL have to pay in profit sharing if they didnt spend those millions to fight their own employees?
 
How much more would have they earned on a 4.3% raise vs a 10% profit sharing payout?
 
How much more would they have gotten if the payout wasnt unilaterally cut f 33% from 15% to 10%?
 
Since when does Kevin have the power to throw people off the board?
 
I guess you believe in censorship since people have the power of free thinking and you dont.
 

And who appointed you the spokesperson for Delta's anti-union campaign?
 
Are you being paid by Delta or Ford and Harrison, since you are an outsider?

 

[737823]

What's revealing to me is the number of participants on WCDFA FB page that identify NWA as their employer not DL. Kev keeps insisiting those pushing the unions aren't PM-NW but anyone and everyone at DL but based in WCDFA it would seem that isn't the case. In my experience while many of the PM-NW employees are bitter towards DL and losing their representation it seems some have lightened up and like DL.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

WT before I head to work I wanted to elaborate one more time on the issue you try to brush your way around and ignore.

Percentages.

Looking at your posts you have 11170 currently of which 1833 are rated RED or unfavorable. Which puts you at well over 10% on either your credibility or likeability assessment.

I have 1406 current posts of which 660 are rated GREEN or favorable. Which puts me at near a 50% credibility or likeability assessment.

Percentages cannot and should not be ignored when it comes to many mathematical equations to understand something in it's fullest context.

 

[southwind]

mgmt. needs to stay the flip out of the FAs with their anti union crap...  let the FAs have their flippin say   after all this is America  it is suppose to be the right for them to join a union if they choose to do so

Your right! This is America where a union can push as hard as they want, to get in and a company should be able to push, just as hard, to keep them out!
 
Again, why do you pro-union peeps want to show the Rainbows and Unicorns side of a union, but abhor showing the sh!t that goes on behind the curtain, so that the people considering joining a union, have all the facts?

 

[southwind]

 
Fighting against (fierce management intimidation), Delta Air Lines flight attendants came within 328 votes of winning an AFA-CWA voice and bargaining rights.

The vote was 9,216 for union representation and 9,544 for no union. The turnout was huge, about 94 percent of the more than 20,000 eligible flight attendants voted in the National Mediation Board election.

Read more at: http://www.cwa-union.org/news/entry/management_interference_critical_factor_in_extremely_close_delta_vote/
 

 
 
I've noticed that whenever a union loses out, it's because of management interference and never about the fact that they couldn't sway enough peeps!
 
Oh well, I'm sure we'll be here again, in a couple of years..........unions need that dues money rollin' in!

 

[southwind]

And I'm calling Bullsh!t on this one..............
 
Flight attendants would log in for their flight assignments, as required, and the first screen that popped up was one asking if they had voted and directing them immediately to the NMB site. “It’s clear to us that Delta was tracking the voting. This kind of surveillance is a violation of the confidentiality and secret guarantee of the voting process under NMB rules,” he told reporters.

Read more at: http://www.cwa-union.org/news/entry/management_interference_critical_factor_in_extremely_close_delta_vote/
 
The reason DL was helping direct people to the voting site was because of the rule change the "UNIONS" instigated through the NMB concerning "A no vote will have to be cast and not voting at all would not be considered a no vote"!
 
Unions gamed the system and they're pissed it's not working for them.

 

[southwind]

And you can't comprehend that DL's own employees are the one's seeking representation.

And you can't comprehend that the majority of them want nothing to do with a union?

 

[robbedagain]

while every union will have its good bad and ugly side, it is ultimately a better option in my own honest opin to have a union representation.  I have personally been on both sides of the fence in this airline industry and its better to have representation personally.   second there is far more recourse for union represented employees than there is for non union employees.    For ex... while at our commuter outfit Piedmont  we were given .25 cent raises (yes just a flippin quarter raise) to keep the unions out   of course it worked the first time but after things quieted down mgmt. took that quarter raise away    so that kind of crap can happen at DL  only it would be bigger than a quarter.  I am a pro union   I do also know first hand some of the bad side of unions  but in general there will always be the good  the bad and the ugly   plain n simple.  only in my own opin its worse without a union than it is with a union  Heck one bad side is that I still have no idea when Im gonna have an arbitration hearing for my grievance  and it already been 5 yrs since I filed  and over 1 yr since I had mediation   but in no way am I giving up

 

[WeAAsles]

And I'm calling Bullsh!t on this one..............
 
Flight attendants would log in for their flight assignments, as required, and the first screen that popped up was one asking if they had voted and directing them immediately to the NMB site. “It’s clear to us that Delta was tracking the voting. This kind of surveillance is a violation of the confidentiality and secret guarantee of the voting process under NMB rules,” he told reporters.
Read more at: http://www.cwa-union.org/news/entry/management_interference_critical_factor_in_extremely_close_delta_vote/
 
The reason DL was helping direct people to the voting site was because of the rule change the "UNIONS" instigated through the NMB concerning "A no vote will have to be cast and not voting at all would not be considered a no vote"!
 
Unions gamed the system and they're pissed it's not working for them.

So you consider a NON Vote being cast should have remained a NO vote?

What are you from Afghanistan or something?

 

[WeAAsles]

And you can't comprehend that the majority of them want nothing to do with a union?

A monkey speaks for the majority? A majority at this moment here is a lone solitary voice.

 

[700UW]

And he left Delta years ago, and acts like he is the official anti-union spokesman for all of delta employees

 

[robbedagain]

think he has even said that before   like during the us/aa merger