IAM Stepping Up campaign
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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weAAsle attacked DL's customer service and operational performance.
Those of us who are part of the DL family circle when outsiders make the kind of insinuations that he made.
since you read a.net, it is worth noting that DL employees are still perceived there as being highly protective of the company - and yet I haven't posted there in years.
perhaps DL people value the historic strengths that have made DL great for 85 years and aren't about ready to listen to someone who has no interest in DL's success try to change that.
The only one that is being called out is anyone that tries to use flim-flam arguments and poorly extracted data to prove a point which the vast majority of DL people have already figured out.
DL people have repeatedly voted against further unionization. They don't need outsiders telling them what they should know or telling them they aren't smart enough to think for themselves.
This site is the best contraception from being impregnated with the notion that unions can do anything positive.
If you can show me where Kev publicly asked for help on this site, feel free to post it. Even if he asks doesn't mean I am going to give you a free pass.
I have asked Kev to bring active DL people to this forum if the topics matter to DL employees.
Until then, I'm going with the reality that Kev can run circles around either one of you two in his intelligence, articulation, and insight.
He doesn't need you to insert yourself into a discussion which DL people can easily handle on their own.
Those of us who are part of the DL family circle when outsiders make the kind of insinuations that he made.
since you read a.net, it is worth noting that DL employees are still perceived there as being highly protective of the company - and yet I haven't posted there in years.
perhaps DL people value the historic strengths that have made DL great for 85 years and aren't about ready to listen to someone who has no interest in DL's success try to change that.
The only one that is being called out is anyone that tries to use flim-flam arguments and poorly extracted data to prove a point which the vast majority of DL people have already figured out.
DL people have repeatedly voted against further unionization. They don't need outsiders telling them what they should know or telling them they aren't smart enough to think for themselves.
This site is the best contraception from being impregnated with the notion that unions can do anything positive.
If you can show me where Kev publicly asked for help on this site, feel free to post it. Even if he asks doesn't mean I am going to give you a free pass.
I have asked Kev to bring active DL people to this forum if the topics matter to DL employees.
Until then, I'm going with the reality that Kev can run circles around either one of you two in his intelligence, articulation, and insight.
He doesn't need you to insert yourself into a discussion which DL people can easily handle on their own.
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- #2,778
Doesnt matter who does what, this is about the Delta Employees who are seeking to be unionized.
You go off on more tangents than what is in a Geometry text book.
You are not part of the Delta family, you left home and went out on your own, maybe you need to see a deprogrammer as you are brainwashed.
For someone who isnt an active Delta employee and hasnt been on years, you post way too much on here, so how much is Gerry Glass paying you to post?
You complain that people take a post off topic, yet you are guilty of the same behavior on a constant basis.
Once again, this is about Delta employees who approached the IAM and want to be part of union, have a collective bargaining agreement, just like Anderson and the executives who have an employment contract.
They are seeking a union to have respect in the workplace, a say in what happens and not be at delta's whim and beckon call.
You go off on more tangents than what is in a Geometry text book.
You are not part of the Delta family, you left home and went out on your own, maybe you need to see a deprogrammer as you are brainwashed.
For someone who isnt an active Delta employee and hasnt been on years, you post way too much on here, so how much is Gerry Glass paying you to post?
You complain that people take a post off topic, yet you are guilty of the same behavior on a constant basis.
Once again, this is about Delta employees who approached the IAM and want to be part of union, have a collective bargaining agreement, just like Anderson and the executives who have an employment contract.
They are seeking a union to have respect in the workplace, a say in what happens and not be at delta's whim and beckon call.
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- #2,780
I will take hands on life experience over a college degree in most cases any day.
The demise of the airlines started when financial people took over running companies vs people who came up through the ranks and understand how an airline works from the ground up, instead of having a piece of paper that says, hey I took business classes, yet never worked a day in the industry.
The demise of the airlines started when financial people took over running companies vs people who came up through the ranks and understand how an airline works from the ground up, instead of having a piece of paper that says, hey I took business classes, yet never worked a day in the industry.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
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+1000700UW said:
Affectionately known among the rank and file as "Pencil Pushers"
In war times they were known as Lieutenants. Any time they got into a serious jam they ran with there tails between thier legs and the Sergeant had to take over and pull their arse out of the fire.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- #2,782
speaking of tangents, what does education have to do with the topic? never have I said that anyone's experience or perspective disqualifies them from participation or that a degree gives anyone's opinion more weight than anothers.
Your post and the TWU promoter's response highlight the divisive class envy and derision which is typical of the union movement and which has no part of the DL culture.
Nice job of highlighting yet another reason why DL people reject further unionization.
DL people, regardless of their education background, have consistently decided it is in their best interest to not choose to further unionize. that is an irrefutable fact.
Feel free to run down the rabbit hole of blaming educated individuals for the fate of labor in the airline industry but the single most significant impact came from the deregulation of the US domestic airline industry in 1978.
The American people through their elected leaders said they want the free market to work.
All kinds of new airlines including Southwest started service, and some of them have reached the size of the US legacy airlines.
IN the process of growing in the US market, they competed with enormously lower costs which in turn forced US legacy carriers to do the same.
it isn't a surprise that the largest low fare carriers like WN and B6 are now approaching cost levels comparable to the US legacy carriers - and with their cost increases, the loss of pricing power in the domestic market by the low fare carriers and because of consolidation among both legacy and network carriers.
thus, labor is indeed set to recapture some of the gains that have been lost in the airline industry but it still doesn't mean that airlines are going to agree to massive cost increases because higher costs will result in higher ticket prices which reduces demand.
More significant to this topic, DL employees have yet to see any evidence that a union can obtain any more increased pay and benefits than what they can get directly working with the company.
Your post and the TWU promoter's response highlight the divisive class envy and derision which is typical of the union movement and which has no part of the DL culture.
Nice job of highlighting yet another reason why DL people reject further unionization.
DL people, regardless of their education background, have consistently decided it is in their best interest to not choose to further unionize. that is an irrefutable fact.
Feel free to run down the rabbit hole of blaming educated individuals for the fate of labor in the airline industry but the single most significant impact came from the deregulation of the US domestic airline industry in 1978.
The American people through their elected leaders said they want the free market to work.
All kinds of new airlines including Southwest started service, and some of them have reached the size of the US legacy airlines.
IN the process of growing in the US market, they competed with enormously lower costs which in turn forced US legacy carriers to do the same.
it isn't a surprise that the largest low fare carriers like WN and B6 are now approaching cost levels comparable to the US legacy carriers - and with their cost increases, the loss of pricing power in the domestic market by the low fare carriers and because of consolidation among both legacy and network carriers.
thus, labor is indeed set to recapture some of the gains that have been lost in the airline industry but it still doesn't mean that airlines are going to agree to massive cost increases because higher costs will result in higher ticket prices which reduces demand.
More significant to this topic, DL employees have yet to see any evidence that a union can obtain any more increased pay and benefits than what they can get directly working with the company.
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- #2,783
Those who live in the past are doomed to repeat it.
What happened five or ten years ago, doesnt matter today.
This is 2014, not 2010, things have changed.
Employees are tired of supporting profits, cheap air fares and exorbitant executive salaries at the cost of their own compensation. They want to be treated with respect, have set work rules, compensation, scope and benefits, not a constant changing policy that harms them.
So keep up your mantra of what has happened in the past, this is the present and future.
Like I said, it took four votes at US to unionize the ramp and csa.
Yet you said to Kevin, you wouldnt rehash the past, but yet you post the same BS and drivial in every post about the past.
Oh wait, you are still living in the past, otherwise you wouldnt be Delta's #1 cheerleader on the board, with no vested interest anymore as you WALKED away from Delta on your own accord.
Guess you miss it too much, do you have a replica of your cubicle and worship to RA every time you step into it?
What ACS or FAs do at Delta doesnt effect you, you are not one of them nor are you a current DL employee.
So how much does DL or F&H pay you to post on here?
Do they have internet in the jungle?
What happened five or ten years ago, doesnt matter today.
This is 2014, not 2010, things have changed.
Employees are tired of supporting profits, cheap air fares and exorbitant executive salaries at the cost of their own compensation. They want to be treated with respect, have set work rules, compensation, scope and benefits, not a constant changing policy that harms them.
So keep up your mantra of what has happened in the past, this is the present and future.
Like I said, it took four votes at US to unionize the ramp and csa.
Yet you said to Kevin, you wouldnt rehash the past, but yet you post the same BS and drivial in every post about the past.
Oh wait, you are still living in the past, otherwise you wouldnt be Delta's #1 cheerleader on the board, with no vested interest anymore as you WALKED away from Delta on your own accord.
Guess you miss it too much, do you have a replica of your cubicle and worship to RA every time you step into it?
What ACS or FAs do at Delta doesnt effect you, you are not one of them nor are you a current DL employee.
So how much does DL or F&H pay you to post on here?
Do they have internet in the jungle?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- #2,784
except DL employees received the equivalent of one month's salary in profit sharing.
DL employees like their unionized peers at WN thrive on profit sharing.
Labor doesn't win because it doesn't understand the power of connecting economic interests in the company with that of the employee.
DL and WN get it. The IAM and TWU do not. They gave away profit sharing.
Did labor leaders not realize that consolidation would lead to higher profits and yet they gave away profit sharing just as the industry is reaching its best point in decades.
I can guarantee you that what the IAM and TWU have done in the past is factored into how DL employees decide whether a union is in their best interest or not.
It isn't a surprise that DL employees have rejected further unionization.
DL employees like their unionized peers at WN thrive on profit sharing.
Labor doesn't win because it doesn't understand the power of connecting economic interests in the company with that of the employee.
DL and WN get it. The IAM and TWU do not. They gave away profit sharing.
Did labor leaders not realize that consolidation would lead to higher profits and yet they gave away profit sharing just as the industry is reaching its best point in decades.
I can guarantee you that what the IAM and TWU have done in the past is factored into how DL employees decide whether a union is in their best interest or not.
It isn't a surprise that DL employees have rejected further unionization.
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- #2,785
And how much MORE would the payout have been if Delta didnt cut the percentage from 15% to 10%?
Why do some Delta employees get a 2% raise, while others get a 3% raise?
Did ACS of FAs have a say in that?
And when the next downturn comes in the industry and Delta loses money for the year, how much profit sharing gets paid out then?
A 4.3% raise pays out more in a year than a one time profit sharing payout of 10%.
How come the pilots in the 2 1/2 year period ending this year will have gotten a 20% raise, yet no one in ACS or Inflight has even come close to those numbers?
Why do some Delta employees get a 2% raise, while others get a 3% raise?
Did ACS of FAs have a say in that?
And when the next downturn comes in the industry and Delta loses money for the year, how much profit sharing gets paid out then?
A 4.3% raise pays out more in a year than a one time profit sharing payout of 10%.
How come the pilots in the 2 1/2 year period ending this year will have gotten a 20% raise, yet no one in ACS or Inflight has even come close to those numbers?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #2,786
if DL people don't like what they have, they will vote for a union.
Get it?
it is their decision, not yours.
I'm hoping that you do use an accountant to do the books for your business instead of the math you just displayed here.
if the economy goes bad, there will be a lot of airlines that will face economic problems a whole lot faster than DL will - and it is precisely for that reason that DL has cut its debt levels to a fraction of what other airlines have.
don't take my word, though.
Ask Wall Street investors, you know those educated greedy folks that you so hate, why they have valued DL as the highest valued airline in the western hemisphere -and probably the world.
Get it?
it is their decision, not yours.
I'm hoping that you do use an accountant to do the books for your business instead of the math you just displayed here.
if the economy goes bad, there will be a lot of airlines that will face economic problems a whole lot faster than DL will - and it is precisely for that reason that DL has cut its debt levels to a fraction of what other airlines have.
don't take my word, though.
Ask Wall Street investors, you know those educated greedy folks that you so hate, why they have valued DL as the highest valued airline in the western hemisphere -and probably the world.
WeAAsles
Veteran
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"They gave away profit sharing."
When the mathematics were applied it was determined that the company would have to make a profit of 4 Billion in the first year alone to equal the 4.3% raise that it was traded for. This does not include further gains from OT, extra work or 401 contributions. On top of that raises are compounded year over year so the company would have to make even more in profit to equal those raises.
As it stands now the IAM US is also about to capitalize on that decision. In Sept 2015 Industry averaging will occur and we will derive even further compensation. Had we not accepted the 4.3% ours and US wages would have been averaged at a lower rate so gains would have been substantially less.
Anyone with a degree in math should understand this? Or maybe not?
TTYL people.
When the mathematics were applied it was determined that the company would have to make a profit of 4 Billion in the first year alone to equal the 4.3% raise that it was traded for. This does not include further gains from OT, extra work or 401 contributions. On top of that raises are compounded year over year so the company would have to make even more in profit to equal those raises.
As it stands now the IAM US is also about to capitalize on that decision. In Sept 2015 Industry averaging will occur and we will derive even further compensation. Had we not accepted the 4.3% ours and US wages would have been averaged at a lower rate so gains would have been substantially less.
Anyone with a degree in math should understand this? Or maybe not?
TTYL people.
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- #2,789
And its not your choice either, now is it?
Get it?
See I am a trade unionist, through and through, something you cant grasp the concept of what it means.
There is nothing wrong with my math, its the facts, yet you once again, ignore something that points out your anti-union thoughts, and shows the reality of life.
A constant 4.3% raise on a minimum of 2080 hours a year is more than a 10% payout.
See once again you attack the poster since you cant dispute or refute the facts.
See you whine and complain to the mods when someone makes it personal about you, yet you do the same type of behavior.
And yes I use Quickbooks and have an accountant, see when you take in over six figures a year, you need a professional to keep the books.
So since you are posting about my business, shall I post yours?
Oh wait, WeAA did and you went tattle-tailing to the mods.
See once again, you attack the poster, since you cant use facts to prove your point.
Last time I checked this thread is about a union drive at DL, not my personal business.
Get it?
See I am a trade unionist, through and through, something you cant grasp the concept of what it means.
There is nothing wrong with my math, its the facts, yet you once again, ignore something that points out your anti-union thoughts, and shows the reality of life.
A constant 4.3% raise on a minimum of 2080 hours a year is more than a 10% payout.
See once again you attack the poster since you cant dispute or refute the facts.
See you whine and complain to the mods when someone makes it personal about you, yet you do the same type of behavior.
And yes I use Quickbooks and have an accountant, see when you take in over six figures a year, you need a professional to keep the books.
So since you are posting about my business, shall I post yours?
Oh wait, WeAA did and you went tattle-tailing to the mods.
See once again, you attack the poster, since you cant use facts to prove your point.
Last time I checked this thread is about a union drive at DL, not my personal business.
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- #2,790
Did the NC, the GL or the DL ratify the CBA?737823 said:
Nope that would be the 70% of UA members who voted.
Dont let the facts get in your way.
And what about the scope in the TA at US?
One flight a day, keeps it a mainline station and staffed.
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