IAM Stepping Up campaign

[WeAAsles]

Companies engage in a wide variety of tactics meant to undermine the ambitions of a labor organization looking to organize there workforce. The greatest tactic is direct contact. Lower level managers are trained in various ways on how to engage an employee who is seeking information on the labor organization. They would quote many metrics much the same as you're giving me here WT. That and of course the dues that would come out of the employees pocket.

People think in short terms rather than long term so they don't grasp the intangibles that they recive through the product known as a Union. It's not like ordering HBO that's for sure.

Anyone who really wants to bone up on the tactics that management utilizes needs to do some research into Walmart and all the things they do. They've basically written the book on how to step on their employees rights.

I love reading which is the one thing your employer really doesn't want you to do.

 

[700UW]

He truly doesnt get it.
 
US outsources the majority of component work, not overhaul, DL does the opposite do a greater degree, DL outsources all its heavy checks and the majority of the mods, they do a lot of component and engine work in-house.
 
So spin it anyway you wont, but you are incorrect.

 

[WorldTraveler]

it is an insult to DL people to say that they are stupid and being led around by gold rings in their noses while claiming that unionized employees are better off.

Feel free to push that mindset if it makes you feel better. That type of mindset, esp. when published on a website like this that is clearly pro-union and in the midst of a campaign to unionize DL employees, does more to convince DL employees that unions are not the answer for them.

you, 700, live in a fantasy world where you ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to accept any type of industry standard data that shows that the union movement has not done the job you think they have.

The simple fact is that US outsources a far higher percentage of its total maintenance spending than DL and US' level of maintenance outsourcing is comparable to WN's who built its business model from the ground up by using outsourcing.

You don't know how badly you harm your own credibility by arguing against basic industry data which is well known and which the very employees you claim to be recruiting understand.

 

[WeAAsles]

it is an insult to DL people to say that they are stupid and being led around by gold rings in their noses while claiming that unionized employees are better off.Feel free to push that mindset if it makes you feel better. That type of mindset, esp. when published on a website like this that is clearly pro-union and in the midst of a campaign to unionize DL employees, does more to convince DL employees that unions are not the answer for them.you, 700, live in a fantasy world where you ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to accept any type of industry standard data that shows that the union movement has not done the job you think they have.The simple fact is that US outsources a far higher percentage of its total maintenance spending than DL and US' level of maintenance outsourcing is comparable to WN's who built its business model from the ground up by using outsourcing.You don't know how badly you harm your own credibility by arguing against basic industry data which is well known and which the very employees you claim to be recruiting understand.

Ok you just COMPLETELY twisted what I said and now you seem to be angry after you stated it was a pleasure to speak on an emotionless basis? You are inserting emotions now.

I said PEOPLE are easily led. That's implies human beings. I don't really need to debate the benefits behind being organized actually. There is plenty of researchable data that completely speaks for itself.

DL employees would be wise to seek out that information for themselves and make the most informed and educated choice possible.

That emphasis is on them.

 

[700UW]

You can spin numbers all you want.
 
The amount of actual work done in-house isnt reflected in the data you use to spin your posts.
 
I am telling you and it is a fact, that US and AA overhaul more airplanes than DL, UA, WN or any other carrier.
 
US outsources almost all of its component work, that is where you get your numbers from, if you are so smart as you claim, why cant you understand the facts and reality of what is actually being done.
 
You are a typical numbers person who lives in a cubicle, you sit and look at numbers on a screen or paper and truly have no clue of what goes on in the workplace.
 
Instead of using maintenance spend, why dont you find the data on the actual work that is outsourced vs insourced, that would be a better data, that maybe you will finally understand.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I get that you are speaking in generalities but you also are participating in a chat forum on the DL board talking about unionization.

DL people have the information. They have repeatedly voted at the ballot box that they don't want a union and they know what they are doing.

It is complete arrogance for anyone to argue that someone else doesn't have the information to make an appropriate decision whether it be for a US Senator or in buying one brand of cereal over another.

You can go there if you want but I will never say that someone doesn't have the information or is unable to make their own decision.

no one is arguing that US does the amount of overhaul they do, 700.

what you cannot accept is that there is factual data which every airline provides based on total maintenance expenses and the clause that the IAM obtained simply allowed the company to outsource other work which is clearly far more valuable in dollars to the company.

The company cares about saving money. If they can throw some jobs to the IAM and still cut their costs, good for the IAM for falling for a scheme that actually benefitted US.

If you want to hold onto your position, fine. US is going to the bank with the savings they gained at the IAM's expense.

Admit that you or the IAM secured a meaningless provision from the company's perspective.

US still outsources a higher percentage of its total maintenance expenses than other legacy carriers.

 

[WeAAsles]

That would be data I would be very interested in as it would paint the clearest most accurate picture on the issue being discussed.

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's available on the airline data project of MIT.

here

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html

 

[700UW]

Funny DL only has 23 maintenance employees per aircraft for a fleet of 753 planes.
 
US has 30 maintenance employees per aircraft for a fleet of 339 aircraft.
 
Now who does more work?

 

[WorldTraveler]

perhaps because airframe overhauls are more labor intensive than other types of maintenance.

In terms of total dollars spent on maintenance, US still outsources a higher dollar percentage of its maintenance than DL.

It is also probably why DL insources engine and component maintenance which is higher value work - and yet the IAM protected airframe overhauls at US.

DL uses its resources including its employees to do what generates the greatest return for the company. DL is not doing airframe overhauls but not only do they do more component and engine maintenance than other airlines but they also bring more work into the company which provide DL employee jobs.

and in many work categories, DL like WN has higher efficiency than other network carriers.

it is for this reason that DL employees earn higher salaries and gain higher profit sharing.

DL like WN has figured out how to connect employee success with the company's success.

The employees aren't walking away from a system that works well for them.

 

[700UW]

You still wont admit.
 
Using money spent is not a fair measurement of what is done in-house vs outsourced.
 
US does more maintenance in-house than DL does, thats the bottom line.
 
US has such a smaller fleet, and yet has more mechanics per plane.
 
And US' fleet is younger than DL's.
 
The only reason US outsources components is that they used the chapter 11 bankruptcy CBA abrogation to get that right, something DL can just do what it wants as there is no scope language nor protections, you wont see a contract mechanic working at any of US' overhaul facilities, unlike DL who uses contract mechanics at the TOC in ATL.

 

[Kev3188]

And on a personal note more work contributes to a better personal schedule on a seniority basis. Where myself and my DL counterpart both have 19 years with our respective companies. My schedule gives me Sat Sun off to be with my family where my counterpart more than likely has Tue Wed off.

There is value under that metric as well.

Yes there is. Too bad seniority doesn't really exist at DL in that context...
 
 

Anyone who really wants to bone up on the tactics that management utilizes needs to do some research into Walmart and all the things they do. They've basically written the book on how to step on their employees rights.

I love reading which is the one thing your employer really doesn't want you to do.

Nothing more dangerous than an educated rank-and-file worker...
 
 

He truly doesnt get it.

Sure he does. He's just refusing to go off message...
 

 

Ok you just COMPLETELY twisted what I said and now you seem to be angry after you stated it was a pleasure to speak on an emotionless basis? You are inserting emotions now.

That's par for the course...
 

I said PEOPLE are easily led. That's implies human beings. I don't really need to debate the benefits behind being organized actually. There is plenty of researchable data that completely speaks for itself.

+1

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, thank you for framing anyone who doesn't agree with the union message as uneducated and out of touch with reality.

DL people have REPEATEDLY and KNOWINGLY rejected further unionization.

It isn't a fluke and there is no verifiable evidence that it will change any time soon.

meanwhile in Brasilia....

 

[WeAAsles]

Earnings

In 2013, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median 
usual weekly earnings of $950, while those who were not union members had 
median weekly earnings of $750. In addition to coverage by a collective 
bargaining agreement, this earnings difference reflects a variety of 
influences, including variations in the distributions of union members and 
nonunion employees by occupation, industry, firm size, or geographic region. 

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

 

[WeAAsles]

*Sources: Union membership rate is from Barry T. Hirsch, David A. Macpherson, and Wayne G. Vroman, “Estimates of Union Density by State,” Middle class share of aggregate national income includes the second, third and forth income quintiles and is from the United States Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey (Shares of Aggregate Household Income by Quintile).

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/01/20/173738/report-incomes/