I just want someone to clear this up. Southwest prided itself on hand picking applicants, to be hand selected for positions. The best "match" for the job, right? So , Joe Employee at airtran with , lets just say 5 years seniority, applies at SWA in an effort to further his career , and better his lifestyle. Joe is gonna hang it out there , and risk probation, maybe he doesnt make the cut? what then? crawl back to AT (its happened plenty) well Joe Employee suceeds, and gets hired, yeah Joe!! good job Joe!! welcome aboard Joe!!! Ok now SWA buys AT...... SOOOOO, Joe is s.o.l bye bye 5 years seniority.... yeah thats fair, for the people who risk things to better there position , there needs to be rewards. Wake up people, you all must be the same people that think having no winner in sports is normal... WTF.
IAM gets 100% seniority for AIRTRAN Customer Service Agents.
- Thread starter gizmo_sc
- Start date
Kev3188
Veteran
Do you honestly think any AMT just sat around predicting that one day WN would by FL?
The BR175's will now be DL's problem.
Direct your anger where it belongs; at the BOD & shareholders. The FL employees are along for the same ride you are....
"Participation" ribbons and/or every-game-is-a-tie leagues are arguably the worst thing to happen to youth sports in my lifetime...
AvTech04
Senior
Serously guys, what's done is done, pissing a moaning for day,weeks, months or years is what will be out ultimate down fall. But I'll put a different perspective on this since the SWA.TECH has offered his.
Joe Mechanic applies for AirTran, gets interviewed and gets hired, leaving his job at Delta to risk his 90 day probation, puts is all on the line. 91 days later, after he proves himself valuable to the micro managing company, he's allowed to finally join the union. 6 years later, during a good sucessful career at AirTran, Joe Mechanic is informed that the company that he's been busting his ass for, for the last 11 years is selling themselves to another, competing, low cost carrier. Now Joe Mechanic has to worry not only of he can keep seniority, but If he even has a secure job in his station anymore. A place, for the last 11+ years, he's called home and has been raising his kids. All the while, the company and the union that he would be forced to join with ate working together to try and take enough seniority away from him so it would appease his SWA counterparts... They ask for all of it, then for 12 years, then for 8 years and finally a year of negotiations later, they settle and vote to pass 4 years. All the while making the same money and having the same benefits...
Only reason I tell you this story is because we were on the same boat as SWA mechanics. Fearing the unknown and forced together without even the courtesy to ask us if we wanted to be. Airtran mechaincs graciously accepted the terms and gave up the 4 years that SWA mechanics were demanding, the majority did at least, and I guarantee you that if the shoe were on the other foot and you guys would've been in our situation, you would still be without an agreement to this day and you would battle for a dovetail until the end!! You ever thought about that?? What if Airtran would've bought SWA?? Or Delta or anyone else?? What if SWA didn't hedge their fuel for those 5 years, which made it able to turn and profit and save a boat load of money??
Most of the guys that voted yes for the mechanics didn't think it was a fair deal. It left a lot of our mouths sour even with the increase in pay. But, since thats what SWA mechanics considered a compromise, so did we and set forth a record breaking and historical integration of 2 work forces.
To sum it up, we should take what we get and build on this new foundation laid before us. The more we drag out the pity parties the longer it will take to get over this. Let's move on already!!
Joe Mechanic applies for AirTran, gets interviewed and gets hired, leaving his job at Delta to risk his 90 day probation, puts is all on the line. 91 days later, after he proves himself valuable to the micro managing company, he's allowed to finally join the union. 6 years later, during a good sucessful career at AirTran, Joe Mechanic is informed that the company that he's been busting his ass for, for the last 11 years is selling themselves to another, competing, low cost carrier. Now Joe Mechanic has to worry not only of he can keep seniority, but If he even has a secure job in his station anymore. A place, for the last 11+ years, he's called home and has been raising his kids. All the while, the company and the union that he would be forced to join with ate working together to try and take enough seniority away from him so it would appease his SWA counterparts... They ask for all of it, then for 12 years, then for 8 years and finally a year of negotiations later, they settle and vote to pass 4 years. All the while making the same money and having the same benefits...
Only reason I tell you this story is because we were on the same boat as SWA mechanics. Fearing the unknown and forced together without even the courtesy to ask us if we wanted to be. Airtran mechaincs graciously accepted the terms and gave up the 4 years that SWA mechanics were demanding, the majority did at least, and I guarantee you that if the shoe were on the other foot and you guys would've been in our situation, you would still be without an agreement to this day and you would battle for a dovetail until the end!! You ever thought about that?? What if Airtran would've bought SWA?? Or Delta or anyone else?? What if SWA didn't hedge their fuel for those 5 years, which made it able to turn and profit and save a boat load of money??
Most of the guys that voted yes for the mechanics didn't think it was a fair deal. It left a lot of our mouths sour even with the increase in pay. But, since thats what SWA mechanics considered a compromise, so did we and set forth a record breaking and historical integration of 2 work forces.
To sum it up, we should take what we get and build on this new foundation laid before us. The more we drag out the pity parties the longer it will take to get over this. Let's move on already!!
AvTech04
Senior
I almost forgot the true story. Bob mechanics gets hired by AirTran from a Laid off NWA, makes it to day 89 of probation and he's fired! 2 months later, SWA calls for the position that he/they applied for almost 6 months ago. Interviews, tests, gets hired and makes probation!! So now Bob mechanics has 6-8 years seniority over the oncoming Airtran mechanics that made their original probation... True story of the path of more the 1 mechanic! I still speak to those guys and that's were I was getting some of my information from during the negotiations.... I don't say this to down play SWA, just to make the point that it was tough here at Airtran too. Lots of good mechanics were fired on day 89, as long as a lot of bad ones.
Are you f'kn kidding me? I know one mechanic who was an old timer was actually a very good mechanic which some of the old timers are not anymore. He was hired by SWA and you SW guys f'kd with him he was an NW mechanic an AMFA striker an honorable and you guys drove him off. That is one reason when I was pissed at FX I turned down an interview at SW after he told me what you guys did to him. What do you think a guy who has like 30+ years in aviation needs to be treated like probie? I tell you what if that was me I might be fired but I would be getting in your f'kn face.
QA4Jet-A
Veteran
You could be on the 11pm News!
AvTech04
Senior
I know it may sound ridiculous to you, but you're missing the point.... GK saved SWA from being a bankrupt airline post 9/11 with his fuel hedge deal, that's how they were able to save the majority of their bank roll. SWA could've very easily of been in a position as the legacy carriers, but fortunately prevailed during the airline downturn. My point was that SWA mechanics could've been in a worse situation than AirTran mechanics and you guys would've still fought for a dovetail seniority.
What have you been smoking?
SWA has never been anywhere near bankruptcy post 9/11.
If we had charged $1 more for a ticket or charged $2 a bag, we would have made as much money as was saved on fuel hedges.
We could have borrowed money against our fleet if we needed to because we own most of our planes outright and are not leveraged to the hilt to pay out pensions like the old legacy airlines.
SWA has made profits year after year. It has a stellar balance sheet. Don't start believing management contract negotiators that say we got no money.
Fuel hedges allowed SWA to not raise ticket prices and forced the other airlines prices down.
That contributed to the bankruptcy of the legacies. They could not charge enough to make a profit, but SWA could.
AND STILL DOES.
This airline is not a house of cards, ready to fall if the wind blows slightly.
It took the legacies decades of losses and piled up debt to be forced into bankruptcy.
Kev3188
Veteran
None of that justifies the idea that FL employees should receive anything less than DOH.
Yes it does.
They are now part of the most stable and profitable US airline in history.
But you can continue to ignore the facts about how much better they are to be at SWA.
When it went to an arbitrator, he agreed with us that Airtran employees were to receive a windfall and SWA employees deserved a seniority enhancement to make it fair to all.
Go argue your nonsense about DOH to him.
Kev3188
Veteran
No, it doesn't. All it shows is that you are willing to perpetuate the divide and conquer philosophy.
Great! And if you were a champion of the working class in America, you would applaud more people being brought up to your standard of living, instead of trying to kick the ladder out from under them.
What I can't ignore is how many of you are so willing to throw so many others under the bus.
S
Swadl
Guest
Another thing SWA hedged fuel before 9-11. And what WNMECH said is very true SWA has money. And I'd venture to say that all employees got a raise in their pay check. It might not be in the amount of a higher hourly pay but start adding in vacation/floating holiday, better/cheaper insurance and better retirement. But I'd also stake money that the hourly pay rate also increased. What SWA mechanics got for an SLI was a negotiated agreement, that both parties agreed on and voted. The SWA customer service agents should have talk to IAM about the situation and told them if they took on the AT agents they would drop them and as soon as IAM took them on SWA agents should have voted them out. They did it to themselves!!
WAH WAH WAH... poor Kev, champion of the working man.
All you have said is BS.
We welcome all AT employees onto our superior contracts and better quality of life. No one at AT us being thrown under a bus.
It boils down to what is fair and equitable to BOTH sides.
And the only group not getting a fair deal is SWA csa's.
Kev3188
Veteran
Yes, the working man/ working class. The same strata of society YOU belong to (unless, you are independently wealthy, and just turn wrenches for fun)...
