Statement from IAM

[PhxRanchHand]

first of all, under the RLA and NMB it is very challenging to even change unions.

Second you have no money to fund it.

You always have elitists, look at some of the posters here who you put in their place about other classifications.

You even promoted afma, who touts itselfs as for mechanics only, which it is not because of class and craft.

I can go on for days.

yep you are a defeatist, when asked about changing you said yes, but when the thought of doing is there, it is the same old " I can't"
did Henry Ford, the Wright bros. , the Apollo, Gemini and Mercury Members say " I can't".. I could go on for days of those who said I can and I Will..... it does not come easy, or with out battles but it can be done.
The statement above shows why we have shown you not to be concerned with the membership for this very reason. I hope that for the sake of the Members that you and all like you in any leadership position are replaced!

 

[700UW]

PHX,

Tell me how you would get a few hundred thousand employees into one union?

 

[700UW]

In the one year bar on being non-union would be too much of a price to pay, the company would have a field day with no unions and no contracts.

 

[PhxRanchHand]

First step is to get your members into the Union that is best equipped for the needs of the airline industry.

that would mean many sacrifices, the first of which is believing in it happening. no more I can'ts or it can't be done...
Educating the rank and file of why this is needed and keeping them informed, Get the rank and file involved, keep them involved.

I am not an expert on creating a whole new union, but I know what a union should not be and the IAM does not meet my expectations as what it should do for me( as if I were a member) or my fellow workers.

 

[700UW]

How do you plan on getting them into that union?

How do you plan on getting the rank and file involved?

You are not in the IAM nor been in any US' workers shoes, so how do you know about the IAM truly?

And what union represents more airline workers then any other?

 

[PhxRanchHand]

How do you plan on getting them into that union?

How do you plan on getting the rank and file involved?
first off, don't lie to them

You are not in the IAM nor been in any US' workers shoes, so how do you know about the IAM truly?
the likes of you who keep saying it can't be done, anf them blames the members for what has been done

And what union represents more airline workers then any other?

I don't know, I am sure you will say iam, but do they really represent their members.

 

[Bob Owens]

first of all, under the RLA and NMB it is very challenging to even change unions.

The RLA erects barriers to change when its the members that want change as opposed to the desires of the leaders of the unions. If the leaders decided to merge unions the RLA would have no say whatsoever.

So once again, its the leaders of the unions that are the barriers to change.

Right now some of your members have the opportunity to start consolidating the industry by leaving the IAM and going into the IBT. The IBT is the only currently established union at this time that can provide airline workers the opportunity to unite under one union. Now that they are no longer AFL-CIO affiliated airline workers can all try and get into one union instead of being divied up between different unions. Its a start and its a movement, better than just accepting the status quo and talking about change.

Second you have no money to fund it.

The IBT has plenty of money. Besides who funded the original labor movement?

You always have elitists, look at some of the posters here who you put in their place about other classifications.

So, you always have elitists, always have had and will have too. It makes no difference and its not an excuse to not try positive change.

You even promoted afma, who touts itselfs as for mechanics only, which it is not because of class and craft.

Sure, I still think that mechanics should try to get into one union. Anything is better than the structure we have now. We dont have Industrial unionism, find me an airline where all the workers are in the same union, there isnt any. Craft Unionism is also a valid concept but we dont have that either, we have some mechanics in AMFA, some Pilots in ALPA and some flight attendants in the AFA. But then again we also have mecahincs in the IAM, TWU IBT and non union, we have pilots in scores of unions including the IBT, an industrial union, we have flight attendants in the TWU, IAM and IBT, Industrial unions, and in craft unions. Its such a mish mash.

I believe that we should be in one union with divisions within those unions for class and craft.

I can go on for days.

I have no doubt, excuses are always easy to come up with as opposed to solutions, especially when one does not really want a solution.

The fact is you admit that the system is broken, you have no real solutions and you say that the members need to change. But then you say stick with the IAM, in other words dont change.

You say they need to change but then claim that change is not possible and cite all these reasons why. It might sound like I'm picking on you but I know where all this crap comes from, it comes from the top.

The fact is that if our leaders really wanted to unify us they could. But they wont, because in order to unify us it would disrupt their little hegomonies and they do not feel that we are worth it.

Its much easier to maintain the status quo, sut back, collect their six figure salaries and blame everything on the members who cant vote them out anyway.

If the leaders of these industrial unions decided to merge all thier ATDs in order to form a true industrial union there is nothing in the RLA or any other labor law stopping them.The only thing stopping them is their greed.

The fact is that I went through all of this five years ago with Sonny Hall of the TWU. When I backed him into a corner he refused to write about the subject any longer. I've approached members, union leaders from every level from steward to International President. Everyone claimed they were in favor of it. The members claim the unions or the government wouldnt allow it. The Stewards say the Internationals wont allow it and those under the President of the International say the Presidents wont allow it. The President of the International claims that he would do it but those just under him would never allow it because it would ruin their chances to step into the top spot.

The fact is all the reasons are Bull####.

So what we have is an idea that EVERYONE admits its the right way to go. But everyone has an excuse why it "cant, wont, will never" happen.

The fact is that the leaders can make it happen, and they could have it done within a year, but they wont.

So that leaves it up to us.

The monumental task is doable but it will take much longer because we have to fight those who claim to be leading us.

You guys have a vote coming up. You can either move towards the light, towards unity, towards positive change or you can retreat into the darkness of what you are familiar with.

The fact is it has nothing to do with whether the IBT is better than the IAM or not, it has to do with the fact that we are all starting to move towards one organization. The IBT just happens to be the only organization in place that provides us the opportunity to do what we all agree should be done.

Since our leaders will not do it, we must. Like you said, the union is you.

 

[PhxMama]

If you can dream it.... Remember what the very first union reps had to deal with. Maybe with more associations working together,such as CWA and IBT it would be faster. Kinda like the Mafia(not that there is one-this is strickly taken from the movies)-every family has their own territory and they have a board that meets and address issues to keep the peace. This way all the unions could get together and what a force they would be to reckon with. JMHO.

 

[700UW]

Do you remember when the IAM, UAW and USWA were going to merge?

It failed because of differant cultures and no one could decide and agree on the structure.

 

[Bob Owens]

Do you remember when the IAM, UAW and USWA were going to merge?

It failed because of differant cultures and no one could decide and agree on the structure.

It failed because the leaders failed to make it happen.

I'm only talking about airline workers here, and the fact is that you and I have more in common with each other, despite the fact that we are in different unions than you do with your fellow IAM members from other industries.

 

[700UW]

Bob,

I am a trade unionist at heart.

I don't agree with the IAM on every issue, and I voice my differences.

You should have been at CCY when contract negotiations were going on.

Lets just say myself and one northern city rep got into a very big argument and the District President had to get in between us.

The problem is two fold, lack of leadership or leaders who are old school and an apathetic membership.

Unions have been trying to combat apathy for years with no success.

There is no quick and easy solution to the problems that plague us.

But both the leaders and the members needs to step up.

 

[Bob Owens]

PHX,

Tell me how you would get a few hundred thousand employees into one union?

What are you talking about? How many hundreds of thousands of members are already in unions. The IBT has 1.4 million.

How did they do it?

One election at a time.

A union run by only US workers for US workers.

The problem with that is basically there is no structural change. Just a change in management of the union. While you guyys started this ball rolling the conditions that led to massive concessions were not confined to USAIR.

Bob,

I am a trade unionist at heart.

Good, glad to hear it, then you should welcome the opportunity to fix the labor movement. The question is are you really a trade unionist or an IAM loyalist?

The fact is you recognize the system is broken. You believe in unity, yet you fail to see that the broken system prevents unity. Your loyalty to the IAM, despite your differences puts the IAM ahead of wht you know needs to be done. Your loyalty to the IAM allows you to accept the pathetic rationals as to why we are not all in one union.

The problem is two fold, lack of leadership or leaders who are old school and an apathetic membership.

Unions have been trying to combat apathy for years with no success.

Then obviously the problem is the leadership.

Whether the problem is two fold or ten fold it is the duty of leaders to address those problems.

The leaders have failed in their assault on apathy. So, what next-replace the membership or replace the leadership?

Why did the leaders fail? Could it be that the structure is flawed?

There is no quick and easy solution to the problems that plague us.

But both the leaders and the members needs to step up.

And the members can do their part by voting for change right? What other steps do the members need to take? Please be specicific, dont say "get involved", because the fact is if they pay dues they are involved and if they vote they are even more involved.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

been awhile since i have been here, but I occasionally puruse these boards to see what's hapenning.....unfortunately, same old BS...haven't missed much. This thread is interesting to say the least, but this may be more interesting for all to see....read, educate, and make an INFORMED decision..GOOD DAY!!!

http://www.unionfacts.com/

 

[delldude]

According to the FBI, four of the last eight Teamsters presidents have been criminally indicted.

my my my.....this is interesting to say the least.

 

[barbeetantrums]

my my my.....this is interesting to say the least.

This is even more interesting. Refer to post #279.

"They now say Pin-head ( on the left ) is having stomach and mental problems and needs the the help of the EAP"