SWA TWU ( Ramp & Ops) and FL IAM Seniority announcement

[2001hdswa@gmail.com]

Getting something done just for the sake of you benefitting is not how it works. Yes I get that this potential agreement obviously benefits you but what about all the people that have only been with southwest for 5 years or less. I still believe that due diligence has not been given in our case and although the arbitration results vary from one case to another at least the dispatchers and the rampers and the operation agents are sticking together and voting no and taking there chances that the arbitrator will be "fair ad equitable" to all tr employees. Not just the senior guys. You are obviously and me person and want this done because it only benefits you but I have southwest brothers that will not benefit from this yes vote and I stick with my coworkers and fight together to get what we all deserve. I guess that's just not your montra. And by the way your vote should only be for one person. Let other people think for themselves and stop pushing your yes vote on others.

 

[AvTech04]

Getting something done just for the sake of you benefitting is not how it works. Yes I get that this potential agreement obviously benefits you but what about all the people that have only been with southwest for 5 years or less. I still believe that due diligence has not been given in our case and although the arbitration results vary from one case to another at least the dispatchers and the rampers and the operation agents are sticking together and voting no and taking there chances that the arbitrator will be "fair ad equitable" to all tr employees. Not just the senior guys. You are obviously and me person and want this done because it only benefits you but I have southwest brothers that will not benefit from this yes vote and I stick with my coworkers and fight together to get what we all deserve. I guess that's just not your montra. And by the way your vote should only be for one person. Let other people think for themselves and stop pushing your yes vote on others.

You're clouded with the idea that any SLI will not affect another SWA brother or sister! The only way a SWA AMT would not be affected is if it were a staple to bottom judgement by the arbitration panel, which we all know will not happen. This agreement does benefit me financially, but it also benefits the 5 year guy at SWA seeing that he is getting a 4 year increase for nothing. Now, you've added 350+ more mechanics on your seniority list and with a 4 year increase, the majority of AT fall further below you then any they go above you! Do the math, everyone that gets the 4 year bump, gets an equal to greater position on the overall seniority list even though some AT mechanics may fall above them!!

Voting NO to this is allowing a 3rd party determine your SWA brothers faith. It may end up better (highly doubtful) but will probably end up worse. This 4 year bump is a hard pill to swallow on the AT side eventhough we are getting financial enhancements offered under the AMFA contract, because you can't buy time, there is no $ equal to time, but I believe it's a fair trade off seeing as the average SWA mechanics has nothing to directly benefit from this deal. The least we at AirTran can do is place you guys further ahead of us on the seniority list.

I would have agreed with you 18 months ago about going to arbitration, that's what I wanted from the beginning and I believed that was the only fair way to determine what was fair and equitable, but now, we've gone to far to take that step backwards, in my opinion. Yes, I advocate a yes vote. Someone asks my opinion, I give them my reason and a lot agree with my logic. On the other hand, some believe that I am incorrect and that the only way to make it fair is to allow a 3rd party to decided, like you sir.

Think about this logically, arbitration has shown to give SWA employees a seniority enhancement, this agreement does just that. Arbitration has awarded a maximum of 4 years to a collective SWA group, this agreement does that. Now, seeing the rampers arbitrated decision, you may get an enhancement, but AT may get the same enhancements with stipulations, this agreement has no stipulations. A 1 year guy gets a 400% increase in seniority, 4 year guy gets 100%. So to say you're selling out your junior guy, or 5 year guy, would be an excuse and not a reason. They are not moving down the seniority list anymore than they are moving up it. Granted, this may not be the case for everyone, but it is for the vast majority.

Now, please, like I ask every other hard line no voter, give me a logical reason to vote this down, becaue I have yet to hear one from anybody!

 

[2001hdswa@gmail.com]

Ok I am confused are you AirTran or Swa ?

 

[AvTech04]

Ok I am confused are you AirTran or Swa ?

Does it matter?? Facts are facts no matter where the perspective comes from. It's up to the individual listening whether they want to believe it or not.

But, to answer your question, even though I believe you're just trying to be a smart ass, I'm AirTran... soon to be SWA!

 

[2001hdswa@gmail.com]

No not trying to be a smart ass just was thrown off by your comments that's all.

 

[swamt]

You're clouded with the idea that any SLI will not affect another SWA brother or sister! The only way a SWA AMT would not be affected is if it were a staple to bottom judgement by the arbitration panel, which we all know will not happen. This agreement does benefit me financially, but it also benefits the 5 year guy at SWA seeing that he is getting a 4 year increase for nothing. Now, you've added 350+ more mechanics on your seniority list and with a 4 year increase, the majority of AT fall further below you then any they go above you! Do the math, everyone that gets the 4 year bump, gets an equal to greater position on the overall seniority list even though some AT mechanics may fall above them!!

Voting NO to this is allowing a 3rd party determine your SWA brothers faith. It may end up better (highly doubtful) but will probably end up worse. This 4 year bump is a hard pill to swallow on the AT side eventhough we are getting financial enhancements offered under the AMFA contract, because you can't buy time, there is no $ equal to time, but I believe it's a fair trade off seeing as the average SWA mechanics has nothing to directly benefit from this deal. The least we at AirTran can do is place you guys further ahead of us on the seniority list.

I would have agreed with you 18 months ago about going to arbitration, that's what I wanted from the beginning and I believed that was the only fair way to determine what was fair and equitable, but now, we've gone to far to take that step backwards, in my opinion. Yes, I advocate a yes vote. Someone asks my opinion, I give them my reason and a lot agree with my logic. On the other hand, some believe that I am incorrect and that the only way to make it fair is to allow a 3rd party to decided, like you sir.

Think about this logically, arbitration has shown to give SWA employees a seniority enhancement, this agreement does just that. Arbitration has awarded a maximum of 4 years to a collective SWA group, this agreement does that. Now, seeing the rampers arbitrated decision, you may get an enhancement, but AT may get the same enhancements with stipulations, this agreement has no stipulations. A 1 year guy gets a 400% increase in seniority, 4 year guy gets 100%. So to say you're selling out your junior guy, or 5 year guy, would be an excuse and not a reason. They are not moving down the seniority list anymore than they are moving up it. Granted, this may not be the case for everyone, but it is for the vast majority.

Now, please, like I ask every other hard line no voter, give me a logical reason to vote this down, becaue I have yet to hear one from anybody!

Great explanation.
The way I read all his post, as well as postings on AMT forum, this guy is wanting a staple. He wants all his SWA lower seniority guys to be "taken care of." An arbitrator will not do this. I have read where one of these guys has stated I would take 6-8 years but not 4. As far as his reasoning for protecting the lower seniority guys, well he's not. He's only taking care of a larger group than the 4 yr does. He would still be "selling out" some of the SWA mechs, just not as many. Makes no sence to us at all. We think he's out just to stir the pot, but, it does keep the forum moving while were waiting for the results.

Hey Av,
I see you posted where some of your no voters have givin their reasons to you for them voting no. Could you share some of those reasons? Just currious how people are thinking. If it is the same as when you explained last time then disregard, just thought maybe you were getting some new and different input from the floor.
I will leave you with this thought; This guy had to ask if you were AT or SWA. Hmmmm. If I were you, I would have let that one go. But you did answer it very well. Your right, it doesn't matter which side your on. Good luck with this guy, and be patient. Later...