IAM Fleet Service topic

[necigrad]

I DON'T THINK THEY WILL COME BACK TO THE TABLE AGAIN.

Just out of curiosity, is that what you thought last time Canale and Hemmenway said they wouldn't come back too?

 

[605AW]

To all you “Chicken Littleâ€￾ …the sky is falling…take this Agreement now people…

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Quote: Ronald Bailey, March 2008, (Excerpt)

Link to full article:

<a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/125414.html" target="_blank">http://www.reason.com/news/show/125414.html</a>
So what will happen to oil prices over the next few years? No one is predicting $10 per barrel oil. However, once the current bubble bursts, both Evans and Lynch believe that the price of crude will settle at around $60 to $70 per barrel in the next couple of years. "It's very hard to pinpoint just how long a bubble can expand before it breaks. Getting the timing right is not an easy matter," says Evans. But he adds, "I think that this is the riskiest time to be long in crude oil since 1980."

Ronald Bailey is reason's science correspondent. His most recent book, Liberation Biology: The Scientific and Moral Case for the Biotech Revolution, is available from Prometheus Books.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/125414.html

Roabilly, Three years ago I remember Steve Forbes tell us the same thing...

Steve Forbes, editor-in-chief of Forbes magazine, predicts that skyrocketing oil prices are just temporary - and a massive price collapse will dwarf the Dot-Com crash that began in 2000.

In Sydney, Australia this week for a global conference of CEOs, the respected financial editor said that the price of oil has inflated into an unsustainable and speculative market bubble - and he says that when this bursts, it will make the Dot-Com crash "look like a picnic."

The paper quotes Forbes as saying that the price of oil (which rose above $70 this week) had been inflated by speculators and would soon begin a rapid slide.

"While there is a lot of talk in my country, the U.S., about the housing bubble, I think the real bubble, to be blunt, is in the price of oil," he said.

"It's a huge bubble. I don't know what's going to pop it, but eventually it will pop. The price has to be brought down to earth, and when it does there's going to be a lot of yelping from the hedge fund managers."

Forbes said that speculation on oil hitting $100 a barrel was misplaced.

He also believes that the price of oil will decline significantly in 2006.

"I'll make a bold prediction: I think in 12 months, you're going to see oil down to $35, $40 a barrel," Forbes said. "In the meantime, it's a huge drain, more a psychological drain (on the economy), but it's not forever. This thing is not going to last."

Forbes blames the oil price spike on rising inflation and aggressive buying on the part of burgeoning Pacific Rim countries.

"China and India are buying more of the stuff. As the global economy expands, more energy will be consumed," he said.

"But if you look at the price of oil three years ago, it was $20 or $25 a barrel. Supply and demand might have shot it up to $30, $35 a barrel. The rest of it is inflation."
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You boy’s running outah arguments! We have successfully educated everyone
on COC, as well the “Crude Bubbleâ€￾ and ...Union, and AGC special interest.

I appreiciate your input but I take exception that your educating me on petroleum. Losing $236 million might be little short of "the sky is falling". Is it something one would have to consider when voting? Maybe / Maybe not. I don't know.

I do know this...as a West FSA Class 2er the price of Vas-o-line Petroleum Jelly will cost me more
whether this T/A passes or fails.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim AA doesnt have full pay on sick days I believe, they also pay per paycheck to prefund their retirement medical and DL only has 15 ramp stations as they contracted the rest out.

Sorry to tell you this Tim, but your not the backbone of the company, only Pilots and FAs can shut this company down.

Guess you didnt read how Alaska outsourced the ramp in SEA, their hub and got rid of their own employees and replaced them with Menzies.

700, i'm unclear where you got your info. Kindly pull up the American ramp contract online. Start at Local 512 out of Chicago. Sick days are fully paid at 100%. Their retirement is actually pretty cool also but this is getting us on a rabbit trail. My point of mentioning AA wasn't to dispute their wage,vacation, sick, holiday schedule but to mention facts that give rampers a picture of the industry ramp rankings and how this contract will secure their position at the bottom of the list from May 8th till most likely 2016.

Regarding Delta, you're right they only have 15 stations but 7,500 employees, similar to US AIRWAYS. Remember, the IAM at US AIRWAYS only has 10 stations. The 15 second class stations are the equivalent of contracting out services, just that they are IAM members by agreement.

Regarding NW not having good scope and throwing 50 stations under the bus....I understand that but NW has 40 stations and 10 cargo centers under contract which blows away the putrid scope of this "April fools" contract.

As far as the ramp being the backbone, they are. Nobody said the ramp will or could shut down a company so I'm unclear on your comment.

About a dozen reasons why this isn't a transition agreement, it's a merger agreement. United Airlines was on 'our side of the negotiations table'

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[727_4_Ever]

This question is to someone out west. I believe I read in your contract that you guys get to use your sick or vacation time to get paid for family FMLA leave. Is this correct? Out East you can only use this time to get paid if you are the one on FMLA. This is another big loss if I'm correct. If your parent, child, spouse are out and have to have your help and you've got hundreds of sick days you should get paid for the leave. I understand if you don't have any time in your bank but if you do you should get paid. Just one other thing missing if you come to the East contract.

 

[Hadenough]

Contrary to what some might say we are the backbone of this company. Our backbone is used to move millions of pounds of cargo every day. Do some basic math and figure how much cargo you have moved in your airline career. The number will amaze you. Even using the most conservative figures I come up with over 50,000,000 pounds. Yes I said 50,000,000 with a M. That is not a typo.

 

[Hadenough]

Haden and PIT,

Let's review.

Those decades ago for which you speak had a "cost plus" system in place, such that revenues covered "cost plus" profit under the Civilian Aviation Board. Those days are gone almost 30 years ago. There are no government agencies regulating a fare structure for the airlines to make a guaranteed profit based upon ever increasing demands for higher wages based upon a "cost plus" system. That was the era of pensions, retirement health insurance, and generous wages even for relatively low-skilled positions within airlines. If you recall, it was not easy getting an airline job then either. What you might have earned then is immaterial to what you are earning now given the entire economic regulation of the industry has completely changed.

However, when deregulation happened, the effects were not profoundly felt until many years later as the legacy carriers had a brand loyalty and an extensive route system for which made a barrier to entry expensive for new airlines, especially as nearly all new airlines failed. As time passed, some new airlines began to fly interstate routes and had the benefit of not being burdened with the legacy costs (pensions, high wages, etc.) of established airlines. Once these new competitors established themselves, then the high profit margin routes of the legacies were easy targets. Also consider, for example, the amount of competition to fly from the L.A. area to NYC area with one-stop flights (US, AA, DL, NW, CO, UA, SW, YX, FL, F9, JB, VA) being close to a dozen different airlines and profit margins are going to be squeezed, but instead labor continues to demand more as if to harken to a CAB fare controlled era long gone ago.

I know it is a bitter pill to swallow, but those days are gone, and I thnk it is best to accept some job security in this new T.A. and higher pay, than to wish for what once was.

So Ruminates Jester.

Argument still invalid and has no merit. I was hired in the late 80's and the wages and benefits you speak of continued for over 20 years after deregulation. I know I'm not going to get everything back that was lost. After all I am a realist.

 

[roabilly]

Contrary to what some might say we are the backbone of this company. Our backbone is used to move millions of pounds of cargo every day. Do some basic math and figure how much cargo you have moved in your airline career. The number will amaze you. Even using the most conservative figures I come up with over 50,000,000 pounds. Yes I said 50,000,000 with a M. That is not a typo.

Hear yahh “Nuffâ€â€¦

Anyone who thinks getting today’s “Video Kidsâ€â€¦ that are generally out of shape und basically “Couch Potatoesâ€â€¦ to give the Company the service that we long term Fleet Agents have sacrificed for this company …is sadly mistaken… especially at the current, and projected compensation rates!

I have witnessed this myself… I have personally trained, and watched others…
train droves of these kids. When they find out how physical the work is, and factor in the elements…workin’ weekends…and nights…they say see yahhh ! Not to even speak of them tryin' to non-rev on an flight with 2007 or 2008 hire date. Hint...yahh ain't gettin' on !

Most have told me that they can do as well financially, in a climate controlled environment such as Best Buy or Circuit City, while workin’ with the Video Games they have mastered!

 

[wiser bud]

Contrary to what some might say we are the backbone of this company. Our backbone is used to move millions of pounds of cargo every day. Do some basic math and figure how much cargo you have moved in your airline career. The number will amaze you. Even using the most conservative figures I come up with over 50,000,000 pounds. Yes I said 50,000,000 with a M. That is not a typo.

WE ARE NOT THE BACKBONE OF THIS COMPANY!

Just ask Delta Global, Menzies or any other airline that does the ground handling for us. I would venture to say that Fleet Service has the most number of instances where our jobs have been farmed out and this has been going on for many, many years. Pilot, F/A are never farmed out. CS has little work farmed out. Fleet has lost Freight and Catering in tons of locations. We have also lost tons of ramp work at many locations. And you think WE are the backone?

You and I can be replaced easily by someone commanding lower wages and benefits than even we get.

 

[Hadenough]

MONEY, SCOPE, FEAR AND ANGER
Four simple words. Four simple motivators.
One way or the other these four things combined with the absents of accurate information are what is driving this vote. It doesn't matter if your vote is a yes or no. The reasons for your decision fall into one or more of these categories. Basing your vote on the first two would be a sound, intelligent and rational decision. The last two are very powerful emotions. Do not let these emotions make your decisions for you. The human mind is capable of making sound, intelligent and rational decisions only when you can remove the emotions from the equation and are supplied with accurate information.

There are way too many voting yes out of fear.

 

[wiser bud]

R-Billy,

Couldn't help but notice you big VOTE NO sign. Said above it "reduced 39%" ! Glad to see you're beginning to see our side of the story.

 

[roabilly]

Wiser…

How do think that the Company can circumvent the Current Agreement's scope language to actually outsource us?

I’m just curious... as to your train of thought…
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Ahem... Wiser...are yahh there? (Edit, ten minutes later)

Ahem... Wiser...are yahh there? (Edit, another ten minutes later)

 

[Hadenough]

WE ARE NOT THE BACKBONE OF THIS COMPANY!

Just ask Delta Global, Menzies or any other airline that does the ground handling for us. I would venture to say that Fleet Service has the most number of instances where our jobs have been farmed out and this has been going on for many, many years. Pilot, F/A are never farmed out. CS has little work farmed out. Fleet has lost Freight and Catering in tons of locations. We have also lost tons of ramp work at many locations. And you think WE are the backone?

You and I can be replaced easily by someone commanding lower wages and benefits than even we get.

You need to step away from your name sake.

WE ARE THE BACKBONE OF THIS COMPANY!!!!!!

Get a grip and show some pride in what you do.

 

[wiser bud]

ROA,
I never said the CO would circumvent the contract. My point is that some on this board are putting way too much self-importance out there.

I guess it all boils down to this: A PREDICTION....

IF Branch Nelsonians are infact correct and this TA is overwelmingly voted down, then I predict
we will all be out of a job in 3 years. I do not think we will renegotiate before the amendable date.
We will then conduct traditional negotiations beginning at the end of '09 and lasting about six months to a year before the IAM asks the NMB to be released and enter a 30 day cooling-off period at which point, we will go on strike and all be replaced by a service company. Nothing will be good enough for many of you! You will never be happy. You always want more. Won't happen.

Case in point was NW maint. They too, had no negotiating power and were all replaced. AND THEY WERE LICENSED, TRAINED and SKJLLED LABOR. WE ARE NOT.

E-nuff,
I take self pride in what I do. I am not proud to work for this company, these managers or with the hoodlums we have working for us in some locations that have a poor work ethic. I can not be proud of our work group as a whole because I think we screwed up not voting in a better offer before. This TA is simply not as good and we're going to make the same mistake again because many are being misguided by lunatics with some other motivation.

 

[Hadenough]

So what your saying is your voting yes out of fear.

 

[Hadenough]

WB
Regarding your thoughts on Mr. Nelson I for one will not follow no one blindly. Your comments suggest we are ignorant and cannot weigh the facts and then make an intelligent decision on our own.