IAM Fleet Service topic

[perserverance]

Lets' move on from this back and forth. ''bud'' and others' don't see the
value we see in our service to the company. ''freedom'' and others' don't see
what we see in this TA. ''GF'' just wants' to stay in sunny FL and make more money
and doesn't care what we need. ''fuzz'' just wants to fight another day and doesn't
agree that we should fight for 18 stations in fact he suggests they should thank us
for letting them know in 2012 they need new jobs, nice of us to give them notice.

They are obviously not going to change my mind nor am I going to change thiers
but thats what the vote is all about. I see more value in our service. I see the TA
for what it offers. I'd like to make more money but oddly at what price and I don't
want 18 stations to thank us I want them to stand with us. I sincerely hoped as a
group we could agree to send the IAM and Company a message BIG TIME. Once again
they have us bickering among ourselves. When will we see its' US representing US.
When the company came to us we gave or had it taken and now we have our own
workers pleading the companys case. They don't need you for that yet you give
it freely. $3,000,000,000 sitting from all our groups givebacks and services and we still
say they need more ,we need to help more. There was a poster awhile back ''labor dawg''
who compared us to battered spouses. We call the cops because we feel beaten and when
they arrive and we have a chance for justice we say they love us and never meant to hurt
us. They won't do it again. Meanwhile we sit at home every night struggling to make it
while they continue to not only ask us for more givebacks but on the same day award
themselves up to 200% incentives for achieving 12 out of 12 goals and in the neighborhood
of 120% if they don't meet any...........I know you don't mean this and you care, I'll wait
til 2012 if you promise me you'll stay and we can work this out.

 

[700UW]

Tim AA doesnt have full pay on sick days I believe, they also pay per paycheck to prefund their retirement medical and DL only has 15 ramp stations as they contracted the rest out.

Sorry to tell you this Tim, but your not the backbone of the company, only Pilots and FAs can shut this company down.

Guess you didnt read how Alaska outsourced the ramp in SEA, their hub and got rid of their own employees and replaced them with Menzies.

 

[kmsurvey]

most likely when a merger takes place the US Fleet Employees would be stapled to the bottom and end up much like TWA did after AA brought them

You can't staple anymore. There was legislation passed after American screwed TWA employees.

 

[700UW]

That is only if you are two different unions.

And yes you can still be stapled, the law only sends it to arbitration, and the arbiter can still rule to staple.

 

[Black Magic]

I feel US will merge with whoever they choose to do so with and it doesnt matter if fleet service has a TA or not. They already demostrated that with the failed hostile Delta bid.

My main prob. with the TA is the outsourcing, I mean this shouldn't even be negotiable. Oh and also the positive space travel for the IAM crew which is just a shady deal on the side. The IAM has shown that they deliver absolute zilch for both the east/west with our own awa/us merger!

Still a NO vote for me.

 

[Jester]

Jester
In all of your bagroom couch contemplations have you ever pondered on the following question.

Why were talks initiated in the first place?

Joe,

I have a theory, because it was easy. The COC was DOA, and getting one more labor group under the same contract with intergration would always be a desired goal.

The generally accepted reason as to why the prior T.A. was rejected because fleet service wanted to see how the COC ruling went and since that's now off the table, then attempting to get a unifying contract would be a management objective.

If this T.A. is rejected then it wasn't that "easy" and I doubt they will be coming back anytime soon. Why should management come back again given running separate fleet service has not hurt ground operations that much. In fact, I wouldn't know East was even in PHX if I wasn't working on their planes just like any other vendor handling another airline's planes. Since the merger, nothing has really changed all that much in terms of ground operations in most of the cities, especially the hubs. West wasn't in PHL, CLT, DCA before and East isn't in PHX now, but rather a very limited basis in LAS before and after.

Fleet service and COC are not holding up any mergers, and if you think that the current 60-day provision provides you adequate protection now in the event of a merger with another, you might want to start packing now as 60-days isn't that much time to move to another station. If you vote "Yes", then you will have years to move.

So Views Jester.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Joe,

I have a theory, because it was easy. The COC was DOA, and getting one more labor group under the same contract with intergration would always be a desired goal.

The generally accepted reason as to why the prior T.A. was rejected because fleet service wanted to see how the COC ruling went and since that's now off the table, then attempting to get a unifying contract would be a management objective.

If this T.A. is rejected then it wasn't that "easy" and I doubt they will be coming back anytime soon. Why should management come back again given running separate fleet service has not hurt ground operations that much. In fact, I wouldn't know East was even in PHX if I wasn't working on their planes just like any other vendor handling another airline's planes. Since the merger, nothing has really changed all that much in terms of ground operations in most of the cities, especially the hubs. West wasn't in PHL, CLT, DCA before and East isn't in PHX now, but rather a very limited basis in LAS before and after.

Fleet service and COC are not holding up any mergers, and if you think that the current 60-day provision provides you adequate protection now in the event of a merger with another, you might want to start packing now as 60-days isn't that much time to move to another station. If you vote "Yes", then you will have years to move.

So Views Jester.

Jester, the merger will happen, regardless of if this contract is passed or not. The CIC is only dead on arrival if the contract gets voted in. The company attorneys told Hemenway, "Take the CIC out this time". That's why it is out as Randy Canale gave Hemenway all the merger related 'goodies' including reduction in force language and part-time ratio 'strip' of the west.

merger agreement or transition agreement, check it out....it's a merger agreement

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

This argument is invalid and has no merit. When I was hired the top pay was around what it is now but the buying power of that money was much greater than it is today.

Haden and PIT,

Let's review.

Those decades ago for which you speak had a "cost plus" system in place, such that revenues covered "cost plus" profit under the Civilian Aviation Board. Those days are gone almost 30 years ago. There are no government agencies regulating a fare structure for the airlines to make a guaranteed profit based upon ever increasing demands for higher wages based upon a "cost plus" system. That was the era of pensions, retirement health insurance, and generous wages even for relatively low-skilled positions within airlines. If you recall, it was not easy getting an airline job then either. What you might have earned then is immaterial to what you are earning now given the entire economic regulation of the industry has completely changed.

However, when deregulation happened, the effects were not profoundly felt until many years later as the legacy carriers had a brand loyalty and an extensive route system for which made a barrier to entry expensive for new airlines, especially as nearly all new airlines failed. As time passed, some new airlines began to fly interstate routes and had the benefit of not being burdened with the legacy costs (pensions, high wages, etc.) of established airlines. Once these new competitors established themselves, then the high profit margin routes of the legacies were easy targets. Also consider, for example, the amount of competition to fly from the L.A. area to NYC area with one-stop flights (US, AA, DL, NW, CO, UA, SW, YX, FL, F9, JB, VA) being close to a dozen different airlines and profit margins are going to be squeezed, but instead labor continues to demand more as if to harken to a CAB fare controlled era long gone ago.

I know it is a bitter pill to swallow, but those days are gone, and I thnk it is best to accept some job security in this new T.A. and higher pay, than to wish for what once was.

So Ruminates Jester.

 

[roabilly]

Nelson,

Fleet service is the backbone of this company and deserves to be treated fairly.

ARE YOU FREAKING DREAMING??????

We are the most easily replaced workforce in the company.

GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF !!!!!! DISMOUNT from that horse.

Hmmm...How come we have a 1.5 headcount daily attrition rate here in CLT ?
Seems like they havin’ a little trouble retainin’ new Fleet Members to me !

You boy’s running outah arguments! We have successfully educated everyone
on COC, as well the “Crude Bubble†and ...Union, and AGC special interest.

Freedom, since your current infatuation is stock price…let me say this…

The lower LCC goes… the more likely we are to be acquired!
Think about the ramifications of that under weak scope language.

Ya’ll ... are graspin’ at straws!

ROA… Sez… NO to this MO-FO !

 

[Save708AW]

Gotta say thanks for posting the wages. I don't feel that we will be at the bottom, but certainly we will lean more that way. A poster earlier stated that after taxes and cost of living and blah blah blah, this 3.50 raise will hardly feel worth it. Hate to tell you, but without it, we are dying out here. Out west, our best case scenario if this thing is shot down is to be rolled into the east contract. Many of you explain that, that will never happen. It would appear that we are doomed either way. If a no vote comes about, I feel, we won't see any money for a long time. I know many of you feel passionate about getting a fair shake in this deal and believe me, I understand. But some of you need to realize that while you are worried about money for your kids tuition and car payments, there are others worried about simply feeding their families and just keeping a roof on our heads. You guys out east went through some rough times and made sacrifices to keep your carrier alive and keep your jobs and I feel ya. Us folks out west here never did that because we never had anything to give up. I am not trying to sell a yes vote, I am simply offering another perspective. I only hope that soon, we will all truely be united so our differences can be put aside and we can all stand together against this tyrant management. Until we are truely equal, that will never happen.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Tim AA doesnt have full pay on sick days I believe

Maintenance doesn't have full pay on sick days, fleet service does.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Funny how a few months ago a few of you felt that not giving into a contract meant that Fleet could hold up any mergers!
Now you are saying regardless it is happening.
What is it?

 

[Henderfuzz]

Lets' move on from this back and forth. ''bud'' and others' don't see the
value we see in our service to the company. ''freedom'' and others' don't see
what we see in this TA. ''GF'' just wants' to stay in sunny FL and make more money
and doesn't care what we need. ''fuzz'' just wants to fight another day and doesn't
agree that we should fight for 18 stations in fact he suggests they should thank us
for letting them know in 2012 they need new jobs, nice of us to give them notice.

They are obviously not going to change my mind nor am I going to change thiers
but thats what the vote is all about. I see more value in our service. I see the TA
for what it offers. I'd like to make more money but oddly at what price and I don't
want 18 stations to thank us I want them to stand with us. I sincerely hoped as a
group we could agree to send the IAM and Company a message BIG TIME. Once again
they have us bickering among ourselves. When will we see its' US representing US.
When the company came to us we gave or had it taken and now we have our own
workers pleading the companys case. They don't need you for that yet you give
it freely. $3,000,000,000 sitting from all our groups givebacks and services and we still
say they need more ,we need to help more. There was a poster awhile back ''labor dawg''
who compared us to battered spouses. We call the cops because we feel beaten and when
they arrive and we have a chance for justice we say they love us and never meant to hurt
us. They won't do it again. Meanwhile we sit at home every night struggling to make it
while they continue to not only ask us for more givebacks but on the same day award
themselves up to 200% incentives for achieving 12 out of 12 goals and in the neighborhood
of 120% if they don't meet any...........I know you don't mean this and you care, I'll wait
til 2012 if you promise me you'll stay and we can work this out.

Ive have said this before but I guess you have a bad memory.
I remember when all the east hubs and the what would be newly formed class 1 voted for this POS contract when all they saw was the money. They surely didnt care there was outsourcing in that deal so sorry your argument that you want to save those stations with an average of 6 or few flights per day just doesnt hold up.
Once again I feel for those who may have to uproot and move. It sucks, done it several times myself its part of this job.
It just makes no sense to try and go back now becasue we will gain nothing. The comapny will just merge without us together and we are stuck will poor wages for a long time.
Those stations out west well they will be gone sooner rather than later too.
So whos protecting who here.

 

[Henderfuzz]

Gotta say thanks for posting the wages. I don't feel that we will be at the bottom, but certainly we will lean more that way. A poster earlier stated that after taxes and cost of living and blah blah blah, this 3.50 raise will hardly feel worth it. Hate to tell you, but without it, we are dying out here. Out west, our best case scenario if this thing is shot down is to be rolled into the east contract. Many of you explain that, that will never happen. It would appear that we are doomed either way. If a no vote comes about, I feel, we won't see any money for a long time. I know many of you feel passionate about getting a fair shake in this deal and believe me, I understand. But some of you need to realize that while you are worried about money for your kids tuition and car payments, there are others worried about simply feeding their families and just keeping a roof on our heads. You guys out east went through some rough times and made sacrifices to keep your carrier alive and keep your jobs and I feel ya. Us folks out west here never did that because we never had anything to give up. I am not trying to sell a yes vote, I am simply offering another perspective. I only hope that soon, we will all truely be united so our differences can be put aside and we can all stand together against this tyrant management. Until we are truely equal, that will never happen.

Well said keep up your spirts maybe we can get this thing right. Just maybe.

 

[giantfan]

Lets' move on from this back and forth. ''bud'' and others' don't see the
value we see in our service to the company. ''freedom'' and others' don't see
what we see in this TA. ''GF'' just wants' to stay in sunny FL and make more money
and doesn't care what we need. ''fuzz'' just wants to fight another day and doesn't
agree that we should fight for 18 stations in fact he suggests they should thank us
for letting them know in 2012 they need new jobs, nice of us to give them notice.

perserv--

I agree with you that you won't change our minds and we won't change yours. However, I'm not crazy about your assessment of my motives.

What exactly do you need that I don't need? Instead of sizing me up in a an inaccurate way let me tell you what my motives are:

I DON'T THINK THEY WILL COME BACK TO THE TABLE AGAIN.

That's it...plain & simple.

However, I do LOVE sunny Florida!