IAM Fleet Service topic

[Tim Nelson]

The Big Gamble.
For those of you still think a no vote is the only way to go I want to point out what you will be giving up.
Lets assume that Canale is not lieing when he says this is the final agreement...

Stop right there, your statement is the fundamental error of many yes voters. When Canale's lips are moving, he's lying. Let me refresh your memory down memory lane.

2002: Canale claimed the 1113 letters would keep the company from coming back for more
The famous, 'live to fight another day speech'.
I told people that Canale was lying and 1113 letters were meaningless. Unfortunately, I was right.

2003: Canale told people 'jets for jobs' and that he protected all jobs through his infamous "Express station and MDA" agreement. again, the famous 'now's not the time to fight, you are positioned for 2008 bargaining.'
I told the masses that was a lie and MDA was a pipedream. Unfortunately, I was right.

2005 Canale proclaims, "The concession stand is closed". Later, "I had a knife to my belly and a gun to my head"
I told people he was a liar and not to believe him. I was pissed off that I was right.

2007 Canale proclaims on August 10th with his latest rag, "Your choice will between voting for this contract or waiting till 2009."
I told the masses that he was a liar and lying and that Hemenway was compelled to be back. Of course I was right.

2008 The United Board of Director, Canale, recycled his last lie of August and repeated himself by saying this choice is between voting for this or waiting till 2009. Also, off the record claims that the west will be 'forced' into the east contract. Also, "Live to fight another day" is here again. And since this agreement sux he tell us that Aloha went bankrupt, oil is high, 911, stock is low, do I like this agreement? Hell No.......
His chatter does not compare when measured against every fair standard on the property or off the property. I'm telling people once again for like the 10th time, he's a liar and these things are not true and that Hemenway will have to come back again.

Secondly, the fundamental problem of these negotiations is that this is NOT a transition agreement, it is a merger agreement. And we have United Airlines on our side of the bargaining table at this point. Canale is 'duty bound' to the United airline stockholders and hand delivered contract articles that are NEVER part of a transiton agreement. Articles like reduction in force, elimination of part time ratios, elimination of merger protections, extensions of a bankrupt contract, elimination of profit sharing. elimination of west scope. Many of these items are never negotiated in transiton talks, but having United on our side of the table opened up all these articles.

In return, some yes voters are thrilled with having the worst holiday/holiday pay schedule in the industry, worst sick pay, worst vacation schedule, and worst double time schedule with double time only after 8 hours on your 6th day, and close to the worst wage.

Stay informed with Contract Information that Canale Doesn't want you to know or have

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

double post: deleted

 

[JoeDirt]

Jester
In all of your bagroom couch contemplations have you ever pondered on the following question.

Why were talks initiated in the first place?

 

[roadtrip]

You know if the company wouldnt have screwed us over for so many years I think the enviroment would be alot better if they needed our help. But the company made a Billion dollars Thats with a B in profits the Execs all gave them selves platium parachutes and the mechanics just got a 30 percent bump in pay.

Ask Me if I'm pissed off at this sh!t TA the company gave me your right I am. An when the facts are presented to the ones who would sell themselves out on getting less than what there worth this is the reply that just won't sink in with them

You want answers

 

[freedom]

Jester
In all of your bagroom couch contemplations have you ever pondered on the following question.

Why were talks initiated in the first place?

Some of you say , they wouldn't have come back to the table if we didn't have something they want .....

many of you think it's the COC ... which is worhtless ... perhaps it could be that which we are all conviently ingnoring ...


ABQ, AUS, BUR, ELP, OAK, OMA, ONT, RNO, SJC, SLC, SMF, PDX, MSP, MCI, MKE, SEA, DEN and SAN

 

[Hadenough]

PIT,

Three words... "Civilian Aviation Board" (CAB).

They were a government agency with the authority to set prices between all interstate segments, and provided the rights for airlines to fly city pairs. The CAB insured reasonable profits by having the passengers pay even in nominal dollars more in the mid-70's than presently on transcon flights. In essence, it was expensive to fly then. Wages for airline employees were generally fairly decent because what became a cost-plus pricing system. The airlines were de-regulated in the late 70's and airlines were free to charge what they wanted and to begin flying cities pairs as desired. The CAB lost its purpose and was one of the few government agencies that was closed.

It is a far different economic environment today for the airlines than when the CAB was around, thus ideas of wages being inflation adjusted to today's dollars would be folly.

So Recounts Jester.

This argument is invalid and has no merit. When I was hired the top pay was around what it is now but the buying power of that money was much greater than it is today.

 

[freedom]

You know if the company wouldnt have screwed us over for so many years I think the enviroment would be alot better if they needed our help. But the company made a Billion dollars Thats with a B in profits the Execs all gave them selves platium parachutes and the mechanics just got a 30 percent bump in pay.

Ask Me if I'm pissed off at this sh!t TA the company gave me your right I am. An when the facts are presented to the ones who would sell themselves out on getting less than what there worth this is the reply that just won't sink in with them

You want answers

You NO guys complain a lot , but I don’t see any answers coming from you as to what you would do IF we send this TA back ????

What is it you PROPOSE to do in order for us to get a better TA ??? You say the company wants us to sign this really badly so they can merge , then why the hell isn’t this TA better than the last one offered ??? GEEZ if I was the company and wanted the workers to sign this really really BADLY , don’t you think the terms would have been better?

OR perhaps more realistically this company has bargained with our union to the best of it’s ability and this is what we have here today …

So lets assume the COC is worthless , are you going to SHUT DOWN , CLT and PHL in protest at the shitty TA ???

My brothers chide me to remind the readers here that most of the people on here have lost credibility , these are the same people who SWORE up and down that the change in control was a sure win , if you don’t believe me just keep going back in the pages until you see the topics from fleet around that time ….

Not to toot my own horn , but I was one of the VERY few who told the east guys that they were going to lose and I also explained that if we lost the next TA we got would most likely not be as good as the one offered to us at that time ….

Please , don’t let me be the guy looking back who goes “ I told you so “ again .

addedum

OUR STOCK IS AT 6 DOLLARS!!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU EXPECTING ????? OUR STOCK IS AT 6 DOLLARS???????

 

[roabilly]

To all you “Chicken Little†…the sky is falling…take this Agreement now people…

I have been keeping up with what Wall Street has to say about the current high fuel costs. The overall consensus among most financial experts is, that we are in a Crude Oil Bubble Market!

In essence… the current snapshot of the market looks very bleak in terms of fuel costs to Air Carriers.

What we (Fleet) need to understand is this… we are in a temporary, over inflated petroleum market that will eventually abate. More than likely… soon!

Now, the question is… do we want to lock ourselves into a Substandard Agreement that will persist for years… based on high fuel costs scare tactics of the here and now?

Or… should we avoid becoming the only Airline Fleet Group (Union represented, or non-represented) that carries the dubious distinction, of being the lowest compensated in the industry?

Fleet Service… I submit… THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

Below… is an excerpt from one of these Industry Experts on Oil Futures… as well as a link to the full article.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote: Ronald Bailey, March 2008, (Excerpt)

Link to full article:

<a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/125414.html" target="_blank">http://www.reason.com/news/show/125414.html</a>
So what will happen to oil prices over the next few years? No one is predicting $10 per barrel oil. However, once the current bubble bursts, both Evans and Lynch believe that the price of crude will settle at around $60 to $70 per barrel in the next couple of years. "It's very hard to pinpoint just how long a bubble can expand before it breaks. Getting the timing right is not an easy matter," says Evans. But he adds, "I think that this is the riskiest time to be long in crude oil since 1980."

Ronald Bailey is reason's science correspondent. His most recent book, Liberation Biology: The Scientific and Moral Case for the Biotech Revolution, is available from Prometheus Books.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/125414.html

 

[Hadenough]

Freedom One problem is the misconception that the Sept T/A was voted down because of the COC. It was voted down because it was a POS and this one is a bigger POS.

 

[freedom]

To all you “Chicken Little†…the sky is falling…take this Agreement now people…

I have been keeping up with what Wall Street has to say about the current high fuel costs. The overall consensus among most financial experts is that we are in a Crude Oil Bubble Market!

In essence… the current snapshot of the market looks very bleak in terms fuel costs to Air Carriers.

What we (Fleet) need to understand is this… we are in a temporary, over inflated petroleum market that will eventually abate. More than likely… soon!

Now, the question is… do we want to lock ourselves into a Substandard Agreement that will persist for years… based on high fuel costs scare tactics of the here and now?

Or… should we avoid becoming the only Airline Fleet Group (Union represented, or non-represented) that carries the dubious distinction, of being the lowest compensated in the industry?

Fleet Service… I submit… THE CHOICE IS YOURS!


so on and so forth

wow , can i come live on planet petroleum with you ? Does it flow like rivers ? Does it randomly spring out of the ground on your planet ?

I think it’s time for some random drug testing……


You DO realize oil is a exhaustible resource ?

I want every brother and sister to pay attention to the mentality of these types of posters , these are the ones who are most aggressively telling us to vote no …

Now this man ACTUALLY believes that we’re in an oil bubble ….. Yeah just forget about INDIA , CHINA , and the rest of the developing world that’s eating up the oil ….

We have about the same amount of oil production as we did five years ago , but the problem is we have a lot more cars , and unfortunately they aren’t in the good ole US of A …

Does anyone on here honestly think some “bubble†is going to burst and it’s gonna go back to a dollar ????


I honestly wish I could live in the world you live in my friend , in your world the sun always shines and the grass is greener and there’s hope under every rock ..

 

[giantfan]

Giantfan
Are you admitting that the company wants something from us. If so do you think they will stop coming back until they get what they want.

Had....I think the co. would like something from us ,yes. However, YES, I think there is a point to when they will stop coming back to the table and move forward with their plans. (For reasons I stated previously) I think that time is now, obviously others don't agree.

My question is this----Are we any more unskilled now than we were back then? If anything we are more skilled due to the new planes and the increase in equiptment we are required to use now.

pit...Please understand as a group I don't think we are unskilled at all. (With the exception of a few gangbangers that I work with) I would love to see DP do the job I do in a given day. My years of experience working planes I feel is invaluable to a co. However, it doesn't matter how I feel. Mgmt. does not consider fleet a "skilled" workforce and we are being treated as such.

 

[Henderfuzz]

I will concede that this T/A may once again may be doomed to go down. That just makes me sick to think I and many others will have to continue to suffer under these sorry wages for God knows how long.
Now my question that I believe Freedom is also asking, what is it you think we will get that is so much better if they come back one more time?
Lets say they say fine ok we will leave the COC in, which seems to be a big thing for you No voters.
Fine, well as Tim has pointed out that has value right? Which means no pay raise or very little one.
Oh yes double time, its gone not even considered. The extra holidays, gone too.
Oh and maybe fewer cities on the outsource list as well.
You see thats what we face just based on what I read here. So come on tell me what you think we can gain if this is voted down.
Just remember the T/A from Sept. was overseen by an arbatrator. Maybe we should go that route again, but again not much will change.

 

[roabilly]

[quote name='freedom' date='Apr 23 2008, 02:47 PM' post='597

Does anyone on here honestly think some “bubbleâ€￾ is going to burst and it’s gonna go back to a dollar ????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom...

Perhaps… you missed your calling! Quit LCC, and become a "Futuresâ€￾ expert…
I will guarantee you… it will pay significantly more than you are making at the present!

P.S. “Oâ€￾ man where are yahh ?

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

5. Northwest. Full double time on all days. profit sharing, very good scope includes 40 stations and 10 cargo stations.

You might want to check on that "Very good scope", If I'm not mistaken the IAM threw 70 NW stations under the bus on the trip through chapter 11.

Kev3188 could give you the exact numbers,but it isn't pretty.

 

[orioleman]

fuzz,
"I will concede that this T/A may once again may be doomed to go down. That just makes me sick to think I and many others will have to continue to suffer under these sorry wages for God knows how long"


hey fuzz tell your AGC or representative when they come to dfw how sick you are of it.. and tell them to quit screwing around and kissing canale. and neg a fair and equitable contract