IAM Fleet Service topic (Mini Thread)

[JoeDirt]

JoeDirt,

Go back and look at the 8-10-07 and you will see the same pay scale across the board. Nothing changed. So if we vote no 8 months from now they come out with the same payscale?

Yeah I saw that but I didn't even realize then the big discrepancy in the increases until I started comparing it to our current pay scale. I never compared the two until this latest T/A came out. As for the 8 months between then and now it is a little misleading. Almost 4 to 5 months of that was waiting for the ruling on the grievance. So no talks were held during that time frame. Between mid Jan and the first of Apr (2 and a half months) they met 3 times and also held talks for M&R. IMO I think they will be back to try and hammer something out if not let them move the west onto our contract and we will all be ready to fight as a group in '09. What a formidible group we will be. I'm talking about Fleet as a group. I look forward to the day when we can all stand on the same side and fight as one.

 

[mike33]

give us what we deserve

nothing is given , we must fight for everything , begging won't win the day .

You can win the day and I'll take what we deserve. If you don't think you deserve that then thats your choice

 

[freedom]

You can win the day and I'll take what we deserve. If you don't think you deserve that then thats your choice

I think you missed my point , our union is WEAK and the COC is worthless , read the arbiters decision . we have no leverage and thus that’s why we’re seeing the contract that we have today . If I were Al , I’d have no incentive to give you a penny more .

 

[Tim Nelson]

I think you missed my point , our union is WEAK and the COC is worthless , read the arbiters decision . we have no leverage and thus that’s why we’re seeing the contract that we have today . If I were Al , I’d have no incentive to give you a penny more .

I think you wil be surprised Feedom. We'll see how weak we are when the vote comes May 8th. Only solidarity could rise up against the oppression of this union leadership and company. The masses are strong, it's the union leadership that is weak but that's set to change.

In the meantime, IMO, I think the masses are strong enough to work though these difficult issues and see the wisdom in voting No. I'm fully anticipating a rejection and although PHX has made its voice heard that it is a strong yes, I hope PHX will stand behind the rest of the system after a rejection. OTOH, if this contract is approved then we still must move forward together.

Contract Informational Website

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[mike33]

I think you missed my point , our union is WEAK and the COC is worthless , read the arbiters decision . we have no leverage and thus that’s why we’re seeing the contract that we have today . If I were Al , I’d have no incentive to give you a penny more .

You're so dead conviced of that and it's a waste of my time to show you otherwise....again....and again....and again. Research-Research-Research freedom. Thats what it will take for you to make an honest opinionated decision.

The End

 

[P. REZ]

Why vote yes on this POS contract?

1. There was a picket at corporate on 2-28-08 and 25 fleet service employees were there.

2. In February. 30-40 PHX fleet service employees walked in the terminal chanting "What do we want?" reply "A Contract" next verse "When do we want it? reply "Now" loudly with 1000's of passengers hearing us.

Where has everyone else been?


P. REZ

 

[freedom]

To everyone

This contract screws everyone over and we ALL know that. Anyone who doesn't think Hemenway won't be back to the table must be drunk. Hemenway needs this worse than fleet service does and if the vote No is on a THursday, he'll be on the phone on Friday. Bottom line. There is too much at stake for him. Last September him and Canale lied through their teeth to you folks and said, "Your choice will be between voting for this contract or waiting till 2009." Now, both the company managers and the Union Bosses are singing once again the same song saying if you don't vote for this you will have to wait till 2009.

For those who belive that, all I can say is that you need your heads examined. What is the difference between September or Now?????

Everyone knows the thing that is fueling these talks is mergers and your COC which must be eliminated. Screw this contract, keep the COC, and force Hemenway to do this right. Canale will be taken care of internally and his days are definately numbered. If there was EVER a time to vote no, NOW IS THE TIME. Everything is set up. Canale will be out, a merger will be in, and besides this contract is not worthy of one Yes vote. It is deplorable.

Hemenway needs this more than you so don't screw yourselves over and vote in a pathetic contract 3 weeks before a merger is announced with either United or American. Then you will only have yourselves to blame for branding yourselves under a pathetic contract for 8 years.

I hear you guys all say how you despise Hemenway and Canale, don't do the unthinkable and support them trying to hose you guys over by collaring you with an industry worst contract. And don't believe all these union bums coming into your breakrooms with their $120,000 jobs talking down to you and telling you if you vote this out then you will wait 3 more years. That is a 100% lie. Bottom line! It's a Lie.

The thought that you will have to wait is the thought that some are troubled over. I;ll be putting out some information on this so you can be confident that 'No way in Hell' does Hemenway NOT come back. Hell, he has never left. Wake up people!

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

If your wrong and we go into united as we are now , this is what will happen in my view .


Mergers take time , all talks are put off for at least 6 months to allow the company to focus on the new merger ….

During this time the union controlled IAM files a change of control grievance , a year and a half later the case is heard and lost , 3 months after that the company comes back to the table with a losers contract , the united boys give it a big thumbs down and we end up in the situation that we are in now, where talks stretch out to the horizon .

The problem with the scenario you put forth Tim is that you HAVE to be right , other wise we lose a lot of our lives in the waiting game …
Brothers and sisters , besides the other reasons that I’ve put forth to advocate the YES vote , you must ask yourselves how much of your life you want to devote to waiting in hope ?

If Tim is wrong we could all be down multiple years of our lives , not to mention while we remain trapped in time , the rest of the world will continue on around us , with the prices of everything going up .. two weeks ago I remember gas at my station being 3.19 , this week it’s 3.25 …

 

[giantfan]

Boy I gotta admit you guys have a lot of info to put out there. Lots of fancy little links to your fancy little websites. I've been a little jealous so I created my own, this goes out to my fellow topped out easties:

Vote NO and keep these bankruptcy wages for probably 3 more yrs & say bye bye to payhikes, doubletime,& holidays

or this is my favorite:

Vote YES and possibly be able to fill your gas tank up

(please note my sarcasm and realize these aren't "real" links, as I'm not that technical savy )

To knees thanks for the shoutout...I'm trying dude, I'm trying....

 

[freedom]

I think you wil be surprised Feedom. We'll see how weak we are when the vote comes May 8th. Only solidarity could rise up against the oppression of this union leadership and company. The masses are strong, it's the union leadership that is weak but that's set to change.

In the meantime, IMO, I think the masses are strong enough to work though these difficult issues and see the wisdom in voting No. I'm fully anticipating a rejection and although PHX has made its voice heard that it is a strong yes, I hope PHX will stand behind the rest of the system after a rejection. OTOH, if this contract is approved then we still must move forward together.

Contract Informational Website

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Tim , in this respect I cannot speak for PHX , but as for myself , I’m tired of fighting , I believe I’ve fulfilled my obligation to this union and done my duty . We’ve spent YEARS protesting and chanting and fighting ….. it seems like only yesterday that PHX was on COMPLETE lock down for the super bowl . I still remember supervisors and managers sticking their heads into every nook and cranny of the ramp , the bolted gas caps on all the tugs , security everywhere .. the company feared us then . I can’t spend the rest of my days outside of CHQ protesting and chanting etc … I think this is a fair offer from this company given the circumstances that we find ourselves in … if this reasonable offer is voted down then I won’t fight for you guys …. We’ve done our work , but we feel as if you all out there have not done yours … when I do my job I don’t pick up anyone else’s slack …. So I guess what I’m saying is the rides over , your gonna have to get off my back now and walk the rest of the way yourselves .

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why vote yes on this POS contract?

1. There was a picket at corporate on 2-28-08 and 25 fleet service employees were there.

2. In February. 30-40 PHX fleet service employees walked in the terminal chanting "What do we want?" reply "A Contract" next verse "When do we want it? reply "Now" loudly with 1000's of passengers hearing us.

Where has everyone else been?


P. REZ

This isn't about what he did or she did. Everyone is solid and everyone plays a part including PHX.

There is great wisdom in voting this contract down because we have a good role model in what it's like to sign a dreadful contract and then get snagged in it because of a merger.

I'm talking about the America West contract. I don't think many east siders are too impressed with taking this contract and then ending up like you guys did in a merger.

Tell me P Rez, do you really think that United will want to open up this suck contract? This contract will be 'iron clad' until 2016 and you can take that to the bank if it's passed. Sorry, but I don't intend to want to work next to a UA guy and make 30% less and have half of vacation and no sick time.

Did US AIRAYS want to open up yours? Hell no they don't. No thanks my friend, NO EAST SIDER wants to end up like you guys did and get hosed over for "YEARS". C'mon P rez, you know that once this is in it will drag on for years since it will be the America West contract of the next decade. Will you at least understand this point?

Contract informational Website

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[roabilly]

ATTENTION ALL FLEET SERVICE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today, the CLT grievance committee began an informational campaign to educate the Membership on the negative complexities of this Tentative Agreement.

For the first time, since I have been a dues paying member of the IAM, has any such event ever actually taken place!

We were informed by our Grievance Committee Chairman, as well as the two other Committee Members, in a completely unbiased…transparent…and factual manner as to how they felt about this T/A.

I’ll have to say… the response was of grave concern, and anger by the Membership… as to the ramifications of ratifying this T/A just prior to an imminent merger, or acquisition by another carrier.

Further… we were enlightened as to how the actual process of these negotiations transpired… including how our CLT representative was “black balled†from any further participation in the process, once it was learned he was in disagreement.

Our representative went on to explain his reasons for not being in agreement with
Mr. Canale and Mr. Hemenway.

Quite simply…he said this… “I felt that this agreement was not what you guys indicated to me, that would be acceptable for Charlotte Fleet Service!â€

Please re-read these words…“I felt that this agreement was not what you guys indicated to me, that would be acceptable for Charlotte Fleet Service!â€

Now… this is coming from a man who could very easily have played “roll-over†for Canale. Since these entire negotiations take place behind closed doors…he could have simply gone along with Canale…and probably have been rewarded with a six figure IAM officer’s position…and we (Fleet) would not have been any to the wiser.

FLEET SERVICE… how does it feel… to actually have an ELECTED Union representative go to negotiations and fight for you…and not his own paycheck?

 

[cltrat]

ATTENTION CLT FLEET SERVICE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today, the CLT grievance committee began an informational campaign to educate the Membership on the negative complexities of this Tentative Agreement.

For the first time, since I have been a dues paying member of the IAM, has any such event ever actually taken place!

We were informed by our Grievance Committee Chairman, as well as the two other Committee Members, in a completely unbiased…transparent…and factual manner as to how they felt about this T/A.

I’ll have to say… the response was of grave concern, and anger by the Membership… as to the ramifications of ratifying this T/A just prior to an imminent merger, or acquisition by another carrier.

Further… we were enlightened as to how the actual process of these negotiations transpired… including how our CLT representative was “black balled†from any further participation in the process, once it was learned he was in disagreement.

Our representative went on to explain his reasons for not being in agreement with
Mr. Canale and Mr. Hemenway.

Quite simply…he said this… “I felt that this agreement was not what you guys indicated to me that would be acceptable for Charlotte Fleet Service!â€

Please re-read these words…“I felt that this agreement was not what you guys indicated to me that would be acceptable for Charlotte Fleet Service!â€

Now… this is coming from a man who could very easily have played “roll-over†for Canale. Since these entire negotiations take place behind closed doors…he could have simply gone along with Canale…and probably have been rewarded with a six figure IAM officer’s position…and we (Fleet) would not have been any to the wiser.

Charlotte… how does it feel… to actually have an ELECTED Union representative go to negotiations and fight for you…and not his own paycheck?

it feels pretty d**m good

 

[Tim Nelson]

If your wrong and we go into united as we are now , this is what will happen in my view .


Mergers take time , all talks are put off for at least 6 months to allow the company to focus on the new merger ….

During this time the union controlled IAM files a change of control grievance , a year and a half later the case is heard and lost , 3 months after that the company comes back to the table with a losers contract , the united boys give it a big thumbs down and we end up in the situation that we are in now, where talks stretch out to the horizon .

The problem with the scenario you put forth Tim is that you HAVE to be right , other wise we lose a lot of our lives in the waiting game …
Brothers and sisters , besides the other reasons that I’ve put forth to advocate the YES vote , you must ask yourselves how much of your life you want to devote to waiting in hope ?

If Tim is wrong we could all be down multiple years of our lives , not to mention while we remain trapped in time , the rest of the world will continue on around us , with the prices of everything going up .. two weeks ago I remember gas at my station being 3.19 , this week it’s 3.25 …

Freedom, it's not about if I'm wrong or right, it just doesn't make 'good sense' that any merger partner would operate a big mess of 3 different ramps, 4 different pay scales. Just like there is 'good reason' for Hemenway to come back the last time....that reason hasn't changed.

OTOH, we vote this rag in and then we will all become like you guys in this merger. We'd be screwed with a horrible contract for probably until 2016. No way US AIRWAYS wanted to section 6 you guys and NO WAY IN HELL would United want to bring us up to industry standards if it could 'Collar' us until 2016. Imagine that Freedom, it's Deja vu all over again. No thanks Bud I don't wanna be America West part two and get screwed over with a horrible contract. Next time you won't be so lucky to have an airline allow you to share its profits.

Another reason this company is compelled to do something is that there is a reason why US AIRWAYS has the worst baggage problems because people don't care as a result of the company not taking care of its rampers. I mean the masses really don't give a damn and that's a problem for this company that it has to fix. It's called respect. C'mon Freedom, you westies above everyone should know what happens when you vote in a pathetic contract and then merge with someone. Trust me, it would be years before United would want to change this contract...but you already are living it.

Contract Updates

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[P. REZ]

Tim,

First of all, I hear you loud and clear when you say that if we vote this contract in and we merge with UA that we will be making less than the UA employees. I think that is a good possibility. It is not the only possibility however. If the combined companies CEO isn't Doug Parker, maybe we would integrate sooner before later into a transitional agreement. I know this is only a small possibility but none the less it is possible. Here is another possibility. We vote down this contract and merge with UA and the west employees stay at $15.20 top out for the next 2-3 years. Come on Tim, how would you expect us to be happy with that? Tim, there are too many if's in your scenario for at least the majority in PHX to vote no. If we would get radical, I would be on board but with the complacency I see out there.........YES!!!!!!

 

[The Bagfather]

Why vote yes on this POS contract?



Where has everyone else been?


P. REZ

Those protests in PHX were great but they haven't produced a better TA.
The protest I want to see would point out the problem's of the
symbiotic relationship between Canale and the Company. Canale
and company have allways pumped up everyone in thier loop that
they will do "everything in thier power to get a TA. "

They have sent out the message over and over that we need a TA.
Our station chair has said that over and over also but then he would
say "There not really gonna get us a TA". Never once has our
station chair or any one from the union ever admitted or even
entertained at least publicly that maybe we don't need a TA at the
cost that this one is.

I guess they did that because they were getting pressure from
elements of FS. But can't they listen to the other side just a little?
How bout at least a little debate. You try to communicate with
any of these people and they either ignore you completely, they
beat around the bush or they flat out tell you your stupid. I'll
never forget TB's comment in the messenger alluding to the
"Hucksters" who have been feeding on the discontent.

The west has been given just enough to sway the vote and no more.
The first 7 months of the contract are slightly less that 50% of the
actual raise thats 1/6 of the contract duration. It comes out to
an actual 8.3% pay difference from the east over the life of the contract
(3.5 years until amendment date). Thanks BF