IAM Fleet Service Thread 3/7-3/14

[john john]

You should not expect that you will draw even with our M & R members who have had years and years of negotiated contracts. How many contracts have you ratified? How many strikes have you had?

Your questions have no importance or meaning to management. Judge Mitchell put every body on an even playing field during bankruptcy ever union stands in line when negotiating with management. All union groups will negotiate with management the same RLA/NMB and if you bring you reasoning to the bargaining table it wont get far management doesn’t care were you been or how you got there.The question you need to ask is ARE YOU WILLING TO GO ON STRIKE?????? TO GET A FAIR CONTRACT

 

[roabilly]

A.E.T.,

I'm sure you know what opinions are like, so here is mine, FWIW:

For openers, I'd go with properly weighted parity (vis a vis competitors' contracts for each labor group). That way, labor compensation would reflect the marketplace.

Back in the day, IIRC, US did NOT figure WN into the parity formula (because WN was so well paid, it'd drive up the US parity figure). That won't fly today - LCC admits WN is major competition.

What you would wind up with is roughly a median figure, higher than the lowest paid competition and lower than the highest paid.

The beauty is, you'd take away management's excuse that labor costs are the problem and expose the real problem - inferior management.

Personally, I don't begrudge mechs fighting to maintain their contract. But mechs need to understand (IAM has done a pi$$ poor job explaining this), fleet dollars do not come out of mech pockets, anymore than they do ALPA's or AFA's. Fleet is going to fight for their standard of living, just likes mechs have.

I'm sure you'd agree fleet has every right to do so.

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Thanks Dio....

When I cain't speak full sense.. at least "you" can put it intahh understandable context.

A.E.T........Have yahh figured out we ain't stupid ?

PS (I do know of ahh tire changers union !)

 

[isthisok]

I agree, I will help with the card drive. Is there a luggage throwing union out there?

I think they are affiliated with the oil changers union.

 

[The Bagfather]

I think they are affiliated with the oil changers union.

Your reply has disqualified you from this forum. You
have been pronounced too insightful by the powers that
be.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The M & R group gave up a contract that was representative of decades of negotiations, they are entitled to receive full sick pay among other returned benefits.
Our Fleet service members need to be mindful of that. How many years has fleet west been union? How many years has fleet east been union? Don't make the mistake of comparing apples with oranges. The last contract that fleet voted down would have been a good starting point to build on in the coming years. Instead, you all voted it down because of an internet campaign led by people with personal agendas.
Half sick pay is better than no sick pay. But fleet service will continue to have no sick pay until it gives Randy Canale the necessary support, and this includes some new NC members who think they know more than Randy.

District Force,

Hell what do you want fleet to do, wait 40 years on the ramp and be content with manna?

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local 1487, Chicago

 

[necigrad]

Support Randy Canale and put politics aside.

Support Randy? Let's consider that:

Randy is not pursuing Section 6 for the West, because the Company doesn't want to or isn't willing to. What's the point of a Union if they represent the Companies interests and not the Members? Granted, a contract that drives a company into bankruptcy is counter productive, but even the most unreasonable requests made wouldn't do that. Figuruing in all the associated costs of Fleet throughout the system and it's probably less then $1 a passenger. And we're not asking for that, we're asking for far less then double.

Randy lies. Often. Randy said that the CoC was a promising grievance. Many people voted downt he September TA based on that. When the grievance arbitration was lost, all of a sudden it was "Well, it wasn't a good shot, but we had to try" from Randy. Either the first or second comment was a lie. Early last month Randy said in my presence that whatever offer was made at the negotiations last month would be presented to the membership for a vote, and if it didn't pass he would just roll West into the East contract. I have seen no evidence that this is happening and thus call this a lie as well.

I am NOT suggesting that the Companies proposal should ahve been presented to the membership for a vote. That proposal is an embarassment for the Company and shouldn't have even seen paper, let alone the light of day. But they proposed it. I support this absolutly. But I cannot support someone that lies to his members. Repeatedly no less. Nor can I support a Union leader that doesn't recognise when it's best to say "It's in the best interest of ongoing negotiations to not comment on that". If Randy wanted to use the CoC as bait for the Company, great. But he should not have told the Membership it was a good deal if it wasn't. Randy also needs to realise he represents the membership, not the Company. Not doing something because the Company doesn't want to is unacceptable for a union leader to do. If they don't want something, make them pay for it with something else. And that something must be comparable.

I will not support Randy. I'm sure at least several others here and out on the ramp would support this as well.

 

[diogenes]

Roabilly,

You are welcome.

What's funny is I sound like you write.

To the point at hand: The pissing contest between mechs and fleet that the company and union encourages needs to end, if for no better reason than it is a distraction.

We all know fleet and mechs are not going to join hands and sing Kumbaya. Fine. We can have the common sense to stay out of one anothers' way.

 

[roabilly]

District Force,

Hell what do you want fleet to do, wait 40 years on the ramp and be content with manna?

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local 1487, Chicago

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Farce... A.E.T....

Manna = left overs!

It’s become obvious to me, that anyone whom has tha audacity tahh post in this Feet Service Forum, and is not even ahh member of tha Fleet Service Classification, has ulterior motives… and is tah be considered ahh enemy intruder! (Period)

Tha Moderators have tried tahh make ahh distinguishable differentiation; between tha Fleet ‘n M&R forums. That’s why they created both M&R, and Fleet forum threads… for each respective classification to adhere to, and post in.

I want all Fleet Members to realize… engagin’ these intruders in conversation, debate, or counter posts…will undermine our solidarity as ahh Fleet Group! Ya’ll gotta understand, why these posters keep intrudin’ intahh our forum, with all this negative propaganda…such as realistic wages, out sourcin'… blahh… blahh …blahh… and, so fourth and so on.

My advice is this…simply stick to yer principals …do not engage these intruder posters in debate!

Keep in mind who these intruders are, and why they tryin’ tahh convince yahh yer
worth less than “Legacy Industry Standardâ€￾.

(Hint: what manna “weâ€￾ don’t get… “theyâ€￾ will!)

 

[bob dylan]

Just thought I'd add a little bit of humor to this topic but as you
read it , it may come across as actually more realistic:

''A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .


Sadly, The End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads.''

bob

 

[lithuanian]

This is Ludicrious! If we don't have an attorney that can go after SECTION 6 just for TWU AWA, then everyone in fleet will work until 2009 and the mechanics will duke it out also. And so will every damn union worker with us airways.

 

[lithuanian]

TIM! Are you sure the Retainer is 25,000! Nice, you have friends in High places but that is well above the 10 bucks per ramper first equated. That took my breathe away! Is this the truth as to the money against unions and company. Rampers have a chance in Hell!

 

[roabilly]

Roabilly,

You are welcome.

What's funny is I sound like you write.

To the point at hand: The pissing contest between mechs and fleet that the company and union encourages needs to end, if for no better reason than it is a distraction.

We all know fleet and mechs are not going to join hands and sing Kumbaya. Fine. We can have the common sense to stay out of one anothers' way.

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Well understood my man…

I respect yer ability tahh render words intahh ah comprehensive dialog.

It seems to me… if both Fleet & M&R were to be considered one solid group, than
tha IAM should recognize each as such.

We (Fleet Service) was told at the time that we were deciding on prospective unions, that the IAM would be our best choice, because they already represented M&R, and that was our best chance at obtainin’ real solidarity.

Fast forward, over ahh decade… ‘n guess what…

We negotiating’ separately… our Union Leadership has not tried tahh communicate with us as ahh combined group… tha M&R guys feel that their little bit ahh schoolin’ makes ‘um superior tahh us, etc.

I'm more than willin’ tah bury tha hatchet with tha likes of ...Distract Farce... and Aluminum Enemy…when… and only when... this Fleet Group is treated with respect by tha M&R group and as well as tha Union Leadership!

I’ll extend my hand to M&R… if you treat us as brothers…’n not some illegitimate,
unskilled… worthless tag along, that is hinderin’ yer prosperity!

 

[lithuanian]

Roabilly! Your humor is not accepted! It isn't in a place where it is appreciated. It might be funny somewhere else but we are hurting and this humor isn't helping at this time. But would be appreciated after someone acknowledges workers rites!

 

[roabilly]

Roabilly! Your humor is not accepted! It isn't in a place where it is appreciated. It might be funny somewhere else but we are hurting and this humor isn't helping at this time. But would be appreciated after someone acknowledges workers rites!

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Whut friggin' humor?

Typin' like I speak.... ain't meant tahh be funny.

Suey...

Roabilly

 

[Henderfuzz]

Im not going to agree with all that Districtforce has to say but a lot of what he says makes some sense.
I know one thing though ever since the Sept T/A was voted down we have got nowhere.
We have lost money becasue we could have been making more buy now and yet we still have nothing. The company has gone hard line on us and yet it makes no difference becasue they are still making money. The moral of most of fleet has gone in the crapper and it sucks out here.
I dont see any solutuion comming from the union or the company, and when the pilots begin to make waves after ALPA is voted out, all bets are off. So get ready boys its going to be a long hot summer. 2009 is a long way off and even longer for a lot of us and I doubt we will see anything worked out by then.