IAM Fleet Service Thread 3/7-3/14

[The Bagfather]

to the earlier poster lithuanian

patience my friend patience it takes time to work a good contract out . the company will always drag there feet.

BKB: Thanks for that comment. Someone with more knowledge and wisdom
in these matters pointed out that the company probably has a very sophisticated
time table for all of this. If the union doesn't flinch, which I don't think they
will at this point , then we just have to wait patiently.

IMO the company is in a far less desperate position than they like to portray.
When the right time comes It will be in thier interest to bargain seriously.
But even if this is not true IMO we will always be in a better position with
no TA rather that a TA with any of the negatives of the last one.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I got a call from a friend who knows a thing about the mechanic talks this week. Looks like the company agreed to giving them full sick pay but they still have to work out some scope language.

I think fleet is in good shape to see how bad Randy Canale is. I'll disagree with everyone who thinks Randy's last proposal was a fair one. How can you rampers expect to have your basic tenets of a job realized when Randy isn't even asking for them. I've never ever seen any negotiations team come to a non-bankruptcy company and ask for only 50% credit for calling in sick. How can any rampers expect respect from Hemenway when your own union leadership doesn't believe you should get full sick pay?

Full sick pay is a basic tenet of any organized labor contract and I was glad to hear that the Mechanic group realized this. Although I heard there were some big issues still to be worked out, I do think that the negotiations team for the mechanics are not sending mixed signals to Hemenway.

And, Yes, Tim Nelson is wrong about Hemenway's letter. Hemenway did have an off the record verbal probably due to sidebar negotiations between him and Randy. I think Tim knows this but was put in a position that he had to support the negotiations team over Hemenway.

To Tim: Continue sticking with your basic tenets that you usually do so well with. The last proposal from Randy was not fair as you said. Randy's proposal contained contracting out language that would have resulting in probably 1,000 job losses. Hang on to those 20 stations that Hemenway is really bullseyeing since any merger will have to recognize the protections of those stations unless you all agree to give it up like Randy has already on paper. Shame on the whole negotiations team for giving Hemenway's scope ideas any recognition. And shame on Randy for not standing behind the basic tenets of unionism by proposing half pay for sick.

Hopefully, the mechanics will get a fair contract and then fleet can have their eyes open to some of the things that the mechanics got that Randy never even asked for. If the company can give it to our brothers and sisters who are mechanics then they can give it to you.

In closing, I like that fruit stand with Randy's pic on it. It's so true.

Very well put. I agree that Hemenway probably had some sidebar verbal agreement with Canale but Canale doesn't have the 'juice' anymore. He's basically 'washed up' and finished and he should have retired but now he will be personally responsible for taking down his whole ticket.
Nobody really listens to him anymore so if Randy tells Al that he will make sure the Canale/Parker plan succeeds, it's just talk since he has no ' juice'.
He's been Bit&& Slapped by his own from USAIRWAYS and now United.

2 1/2 months and we are coming for Randy....soon enough. He can go back up to management where he belongs.

At any rate, it's time to let the M & R, and the stews go ahead of fleet. It's better to wait on this merger activity instead of signing bonehead agreements with no foresight and where thousands of jobs would be lost and wages depressed.

Our negotiations team doesnt have any business negotiating lessor scope clauses than currently exist in the west contract. It's in contract already and should be non negotiable. Especially since fleet has the leverage. And to District force, you still haven't answered my question of why Al keeps coming back to negotiate? I thought he had a contract for fleet until 2009? You and Canale keep lying about things. Canale lied in September when he said our choice was between this contract or waiting till 2009. Thankfully, Randy has 'settled down' his company leverage speech since he has 'heat' on his job. Still all Randy does is talk.....no action. In fact, he talked a good game in PHX last week at the rally and I got a phone call that "Randy really has the passion to fight for us!". His forked tongue is semi convincing but I reminded the guy to tell me one thing Randy has actually done. After about 20 seconds pause, the guy said, "wow, you're right, this guy talks a good game but hasn't done one damn thing other than side with management on everything." I said exactly and that is why we are coming for him.....soon enough.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[diogenes]

OK, let's knock this "you ain't had a contract long enough to expect it to be any good" bullsh!t in the head.

1. Sooo, IAM is saying they negotiate crappy initial contracts (wait a minute, they sure did at fleet and it took 'em five years to do it!)? That's not what IAM advertised when they were wooing fleet! So DF, were they lying then, or just lying down on the job now?

2. At this point, fleet has been represented by IAM for 13 years and under contract for 8 (not the membership's fault it took D141 five years to ink the PPG). Which year can fleet expect a meaningful contract? 10? 15? I'm guessing never, as fleet will always play second fiddle to M& (R until they got sold down the river, too).

3. At some point, the 'M& used to be R' contract was the same age fleet's is. You just know mechs pushed and shoved to improve their contract, with the full support of D141. Why doesn't D141 support fleet now that it is their time to push and shove? It takes some serious delusion to come on this board and tell fleet to quiet down and accept the illogical judgement of their 'betters.'

4. AS 700 never tires of pointing out, fleet and 'M&used to be R' are separate: different GC's, different NC's, different districts, etc. M& used to be R have made it very clear they want NO part of fleet. Fleet has learned to expect zero support from mechs. OK, you can't have it both ways, claiming fleet/mech separation when it suits you, and then saying fleet should accept an inferior product in comparison with a mech contract. D141 has created fleet/mech apples and oranges, so at least try to be consistent!

Guess what! Fleet has given up on that "strength in numbers" eyewash D141 peddled in 1995 and are taking care of their own business. Fleet also knows that beyond a significant number of mechanics, there are those in the D141 leadership that believes fleet should have eternal inferior contract language, vis a vis mechs.

That is why you see the membership commencing a long overdue housecleaning.

FWIW, fleet has no issue with mechs making more $$ - they have more skills and responsibilities. Compensation is only part of the contract, and in all other places (contract enforcement, sick day treatment, etc.) fleet has every right to the same language.

 

[pjirish317]

The M & R group gave up a contract that was representative of decades of negotiations, they are entitled to receive full sick pay among other returned benefits.
Our Fleet service members need to be mindful of that. How many years has fleet west been union? How many years has fleet east been union? Don't make the mistake of comparing apples with oranges. The last contract that fleet voted down would have been a good starting point to build on in the coming years. Instead, you all voted it down because of an internet campaign led by people with personal agendas.
Half sick pay is better than no sick pay. But fleet service will continue to have no sick pay until it gives Randy Canale the necessary support, and this includes some new NC members who think they know more than Randy. This division caused by those with their personal political agendas is seen by the company. Randy Canale would love for everyone to get full sick pay but how many jobs will that cost? You want $20, how many jobs is that going to cost? Fleet service does not have a transition right now because it fails to understand cost neutral negotiations. You ask for full sick pay, what benefit are you willing to give up to get it?
Randy Canale negotiated the best contract in the industry at United, so he knows a thing or two about negotiations.

Support Randy Canale and put politics aside. This has gotten way too political and whoever is doing the cartoons should be ashamed of himself, it's real poor taste. If you want to wait until 2009 then voice it to your NC to support us bringing the west into the east fold. Our members in PHX don't deserve to be held hostage.

I can assure you of one thing, Randy Canale will see this merger through better than anyone else. He has all the right connections to make it happen and he will preserve as many jobs as possible. But as long as fleet service follows these internet people who are only out for political gain, divisions will only destroy what little leverage is left for fleet service.

1. Our 1999 CBA was a good starting point, not this POS BK CBA, because that is all it was, the same BK CBA with a few extras.

2.The new members of the NC have the best interests of Feet Service in mind, not the best interests of canoli, which in this case is management.

3.Cost Neutral my but, ask the top brass at HP/US to give up their AIP or profit sharing, because we earned it for them.

4. This is not UA, so you quit comparing apples to oranges. All canoli negotiated at US was an extention of our BK CBA.

5. If you think canoli can see this merger through better than anyone else, why hasn't he continued section 6 for the West. Since the TWU was in section 6 when the IAM was certified as HP Fleet's representation. Almost 2 years ago? Dropped the ball there didn't he.


Anything else for us to pick apart, because you obviously don't realize, Fleet Service will not accept anything that resembles that POS BK CBA!!!!!!

 

[A-Bin News]

We are back and will be better than before. That's right that blast from the past, "A-bin News" is back. We're all in different stations now but we are firing up the engines again since there is so much crap going on screwing all of us. We need staff from PIT, PHX, CLT, PHL, LAS, and anywhere else to write articles for us to keep everyone informed. Let it rip, we aren't running for office and are not politicians. Your stories will get published. Also, whoever drafted that toon of Canale please send it to us.

our website is www.abinnews.com contact us there.

 

[AluminumEnemaTime]

FWIW, fleet has no issue with mechs making more $$ - they have more skills and responsibilities. Compensation is only part of the contract, and in all other places (contract enforcement, sick day treatment, etc.) fleet has every right to the same language.

A very true statement indeed. But, what is the general opinion from fleet how much more $$$ per hour the mechanics should make?? Just curious to see what people are thinking.

 

[roabilly]

A very true statement indeed. But, what is the general opinion from fleet how much more $$$ per hour the mechanics should make?? Just curious to see what people are thinking.

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What friggin' difference does it make... what we think yer worth ?

Figgure out industry standards fer yerself ! It ain't hard !

 

[AluminumEnemaTime]

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What friggin' difference does it make... what we think yer worth ?

Figgure out industry standards fer yerself ! It ain't hard !

Your right, who really cares what you think. :down: I didn't ask what I was worth. Go back and try to comprehend what I wrote. It should be easy to understand, can't be any harder than throwing a suitcase around. I was wanting to see if you were even realistic in what your job functions should actually pay you.

 

[lithuanian]

Since we are all getting a better picture of the IAM separating M&R and Fleet, East and West. I want to inquire if Tim has gotten any response from the Attornies that are looking over the TWU and IAM incident over Section 6. Any up date on him, Tim.

 

[The Bagfather]

Here's my opinion. The wage latter should be better in real dollars than the
1998 TWU contract. $15.20 Tops in 98 equals 18.57 in 2007. Add another
2.5 % for 2008 and you get 19.03. And this does not include cost of living
factors. The cost of living index is actually higher. So then lets be very
modest and give ourselves a 5% real dollar raise over the 1998 contract
and ...WELLA!!! we are now around $20.00...and that assumes that
ALL the other TWU contract language stays intact.

So for anyone to accept anything less has to accept these two things:
A: The financial state of the company is such that FS needs to take
a larger consession than the TWU took in 1998. And...
B. It would be wise to accept the next company offer because it will
be the last one. (or we should have accepted the last one as the last
offer.

I would hope that no one who actually works in FS would accept either
of these as premises to act on. The only catch to all of this is the
suffering thats going on in west hubs and class II stations. Neither
side really has much to say to them.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Since we are all getting a better picture of the IAM separating M&R and Fleet, East and West. I want to inquire if Tim has gotten any response from the Attornies that are looking over the TWU and IAM incident over Section 6. Any up date on him, Tim.

Our attorney has not gotten back to us since we gave him more information. He's not our attorney exclusively and he is quite busy but as soon as he gives us a thumbs up or thumbs down I'll let you know.
I would anticipate an answer sometime next week. He is known as the best in the business so if he thinks you got a case, you will have the best, provided we can raise the $25,000 retainer [I don't see much of a problem with this].

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[roabilly]

Your right, who really cares what you think. :down: I didn't ask what I was worth. Go back and try to comprehend what I wrote. It should be easy to understand, can't be any harder than throwing a suitcase around. I was wanting to see if you were even realistic in what your job functions should actually pay you.

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Mr. Aluminum Enemy....

This Fleet group ain’t interested in yer fishin’ expedition!
We have our own battles tah fight.

We defiantly don’t you need you… or any ahh yer cronies to advise us on “realistic†expectations in our compensation package.

We are certainly intelligent enough to understand what basic “Legacy Carrier Industry Standards†are!

How many friggin’ times am I goin’ tah have tell you M&R people that keep postin’ negative diatribes, we are savvy to yer motives! Quit wastin’ our time… and your time !

Boy's ya'll know what tahh do !

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Our attorney has not gotten back to us since we gave him more information. He's not our attorney exclusively and he is quite busy but as soon as he gives us a thumbs up or thumbs down I'll let you know.
I would anticipate an answer sometime next week. He is known as the best in the business so if he thinks you got a case, you will have the best, provided we can raise the $25,000 retainer [I don't see much of a problem with this].

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Is our union going to pay of this? No? Then what good are the IAM to us?

I say we get rid of them and form our own union.

 

[AluminumEnemaTime]

Is our union going to pay of this? No? Then what good are the IAM to us?

I say we get rid of them and form our own union.

I agree, I will help with the card drive. Is there a luggage throwing union out there?

 

[diogenes]

A very true statement indeed. But, what is the general opinion from fleet how much more $$$ per hour the mechanics should make?? Just curious to see what people are thinking.

A.E.T.,

I'm sure you know what opinions are like, so here is mine, FWIW:

For openers, I'd go with properly weighted parity (vis a vis competitors' contracts for each labor group). That way, labor compensation would reflect the marketplace.

Back in the day, IIRC, US did NOT figure WN into the parity formula (because WN was so well paid, it'd drive up the US parity figure). That won't fly today - LCC admits WN is major competition.

What you would wind up with is roughly a median figure, higher than the lowest paid competition and lower than the highest paid.

The beauty is, you'd take away management's excuse that labor costs are the problem and expose the real problem - inferior management.

Personally, I don't begrudge mechs fighting to maintain their contract. But mechs need to understand (IAM has done a pi$$ poor job explaining this), fleet dollars do not come out of mech pockets, anymore than they do ALPA's or AFA's. Fleet is going to fight for their standard of living, just likes mechs have.

I'm sure you'd agree fleet has every right to do so.