Flight Attendant Recalls In 2005

[AAStew]

I hate to post this, but I am sure most assume this. On the line there is much talk that, and this is all rumor and speculation, but they say the company is firm on not recalling ANY former TWA flight attendants. Again this is all rumor...
Does anyone care to speculate or comment on the truth in this?
(PLease don't crucify me, these are not my thoughts or feelings.)

 

[kirkpatrick]

I think AA will try to stick it out by paying us understaffing for several years rather than recalling anymore f/a's. If you get my drift. Hint. hint...

[post="267164"][/post]​

I assume the "hint, hint" means until our recall rights run out. This couldn't possibly work. Most aircraft are already at minimum staffing, and extras just don't account for that much of the FA need. The company is already running the operation on a shoestring, with periodic shortages whenever things get busy. In the months since the last recall, 429 FA's have quit or retired, which is almost equal to the 496 who came back in November, 2004

The numbers just don't work without a recall, barring any large decrease in the size of the airline, which doesn't seem to be in the works.

MK

 

[kirkpatrick]

I hate to post this, but I am sure most assume this. On the line there is much talk that, and this is all rumor and speculation, but they say the company is firm on not recalling ANY former TWA flight attendants. Again this is all rumor...
Does anyone care to speculate or comment on the truth in this?

[post="267219"][/post]​

A lot of TWA people believe that as well, but for the reasons stated in this thread, it seems impossible the company will be able to avoid it. The last 1850 or so of us furloughed were let go on July 1, 2003, so we have over three years to go before our rights run out.

I was number 1076 of the TWA people when laid off, and on the recall list published by the company effective 2/28/05 I was 633, so over 40% of those senior to me at the time of furlough have already left. Another 30 retired in March and April, and many more will go when passes run out this July (those with perfect attendance who received an extra six months). Others will wait for recall letters to see where they would be based. Imagine how difficult it will be for someone on the west coast to go to DFW for three or more weeks of training, only to have to commute and be on reserve in what may be a somewhat hostile environment.

At the time of acquisition I predicted fewer than 2000 TWA FA's would actually make the transition. I may have been too optimistic.

MK

 

[czerny]

Jim, what was the total attrition rate for the month of April? (retirements, resignations etc.)

 

[jimntx]

I hate to post this, but I am sure most assume this. On the line there is much talk that, and this is all rumor and speculation, but they say the company is firm on not recalling ANY former TWA flight attendants. Again this is all rumor...
Does anyone care to speculate or comment on the truth in this?
(PLease don't crucify me, these are not my thoughts or feelings.)

[post="267219"][/post]​

It has been my experience that when you hear f/as on the line make statements like, "The company does not want to recall any TWA flight attendants" or "The company plans to make no further recalls until 2008/2009/name a year after the recall rights expire," you have to translate that into the English I. E., "I don't want any of the TWA flight attendants to be recalled." "I don't want the company to recall until [put your favorite year here]."

I was flying at STL recently with a flight attendant who transferred to St. Louis so she could get off reserve--she is way senior for St. Louis. She started on that very theme of "the company wants this and the company does not want that" regarding the former TW flight attendants--and let's all try to remember that there are NO TWA flight attendants today. There are retired TWA flight attendants and there are former TWA flight attendants who are NOW furloughed American Airlines flight attendants.

When I let her know that I think the former TW flight attendants got screwed by AA and APFA, and that she didn't know any more than I did about what the "company" wants or does not want, she swelled up like a blowfish. She said, "Well, they're all top of scale and the company does not want to have to pay them." As she has over 15 years on the line, I pointed out that she is also top of scale; so, if she is so concerned about the company payroll maybe she should quit or retire to help out. Lord knows it would help my seniority. She didn't seem to appreciate that idea either. :unsure: Maybe there's something I'm missing here.

BTW, I look forward to the day that I can fly with some of the former TW flight attendants. It will happen. The company has no choice. They cannot go 3 years with no recalls with the current attrition rates--certainly not, if they intend to continue to increase flying.

To Czerny: The April attrition numbers will not be posted until around May 20th. For some reason, it is always late in the following month before the numbers are released. The numbers for March were lower than they had been for almost a year, but a friend in management at DFW expected the numbers to be higher again for April.

What will really be interesting is to find out how many did not return from the mini-leave at the end of April. My DFW friend told me he knew of 7 not coming back just from 2 groups.

 

[s80dude]

When was the acutal first furlough after 9-11? Was it Oct., Nov. or Dec.? I was thinking that the people who first were furloughed only have about a year and a half left. Am I right?

[post="267206"][/post]​

The probationaries got laid off at the end of September 01.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Jim------I don't think there are more than 2,500 total ex-TWA employees in the intire system!!!!! Down from approx.22,000!

 

[okoge1027]

I hate to post this, but I am sure most assume this. On the line there is much talk that, and this is all rumor and speculation, but they say the company is firm on not recalling ANY former TWA flight attendants. Again this is all rumor...
Does anyone care to speculate or comment on the truth in this?
(PLease don't crucify me, these are not my thoughts or feelings.)

[post="267219"][/post]​

I've heard that a lot. The company supposely doesn't want former TWA f/a's back, because they don't want to pay their higher wages. I can understand that if I were in their situation. We should have never bought TWA. They're probably going to stall as long as they can and pay us understaffing and wait until their recall rights run out(too bad for f/a's who are right below TWA) in 2008 and do a massive hiring in 2008.

 

[okoge1027]

I assume the "hint, hint" means until our recall rights run out. This couldn't possibly work. Most aircraft are already at minimum staffing, and extras just don't account for that much of the FA need. The company is already running the operation on a shoestring, with periodic shortages whenever things get busy. In the months since the last recall, 429 FA's have quit or retired, which is almost equal to the 496 who came back in November, 2004

The numbers just don't work without a recall, barring any large decrease in the size of the airline, which doesn't seem to be in the works.

MK

[post="267223"][/post]​

MK, I hope that you'll get call back soon. I don't have any ill feelings towards former TWA f/a's since I believe there are/were a few of them that are/were generating hatred towards us. When former TWA f/a's get recalled, I believe you guys are going to be based in STL since you guys will be able to keep your seniority there. Correct me if I'm wrong. I guess we'll wait and see when the company will recall f/a's. Best of luck!!!!

 

[coolflyingfool]

I would think that AA would have to bring most all F/As back over the next 2 years as the oldest retire and other just call it quits. It seems like the attrition rate is high at all airlines right now. A F/A at SWA told me that there had been around 100 retirements so far there and almost 300 hired. My aunt at UA just gave up after 38 years and she says the senior ones are all bailing out. She knew of 35 to 40 that would call it quits in the next couple of months, with all having over 30 years. Just my thoughts........

 

[aafsc]

<_< Jim------I don't think there are more than 2,500 total ex-TWA employees in the intire system!!!!! Down from approx.22,000!

[post="267265"][/post]​

Wrong MCI. There are about 2,500 ex-TWA represented by the TWU alone. This is according to the latest seniority list. Look at the lists for yourself. Add to this 2,500 about 900 ex-TWA agents (according to the most recent agent seniority list), about 500 ex-TWA pilots (the other 400 retired from AA) and I would guess about 500 -1000 ex-TWA management, clerical, and specialist people. This totals about 4,400 total ex-TWA people. By the way all ex-TWAers are being recalled in MIA along with the nAAtives junior to them.

 

[ArtTang]

The attrition rate at AA is steady and many senior F/As will retire in the next 2 years in order to avoid reducing their retirement income. These senior F/As have had their contractual "best flying" and if they go beyond a certain time period they will begin to see a reduction in monthly checks once they leave the company. I am not sure what the specific timeframe is for many of these senior F/As to begin leaving in mass exodus, but I understand from the union that many will leave at a given point in the near future.

For the year 2005, we've seen an attrition of 66 F/As for January, with 22 of these having 20 years seniority or more. For February, 86 F/As left with 39 having over 20 years seniority. In March, 46 left with 13 having over 20 years. The results for April should be posted by mid-May.

There seems to be a steady attrition (judging from 2004 and the first 3 months of 2005) of about 50-60 F/As a month leaving (I'm being conservative with this average). Everything indicates this will continue as more senior F/As are faced with the deadline to leave. For what it's worth, I also think recalls are inevitable. Also, if you look at RF8803 CCS in DECS, you can see Option II is open across the system frequently. Manning is tight and will get tighter throughout the summer months. After our slight autumn lull, the holidays will be upon us and manning will be tighter than ever.

I am hopeful many of you will be recalled soon.

Art Tang
IMA

 

[jimntx]

There seems to be a steady attrition (judging from 2004 and the first 3 months of 2005) of about 50-60 F/As a month leaving (I'm being conservative with this average).
Art Tang
IMA

[post="267284"][/post]​

Actually, Art with the exception of March, 2005, the attrition rate has averaged almost 90 flight attendants/mo since April of last year. Even if you eliminate the high count (237) for last July which included the people who did not return from the OVLOA, the average is still over 70/mo.

People keep going on about understaffing pay, but that is not the issue. If they don't replace people who are leaving, flights will have to be cancelled because not only will they not have the people to fill the extra positions, they won't be able to meet minimum crew staffing. Pay rates or provenance, be damned, the company can not get around the FAA.

 

[AAStew]

I also tend to argue with f/a's "in the know" that there is no way we can not recall. Specifically look at JFK they are having another proffer in July for 40 f/a's. This is after 90 in june and the number is over 300 this year alone. Are there overages at any base besides MIA?
I am one who looks forward to the TwAA'rs coming back. I hope some of you proffer to JFK!

 

[TWAnr]

The flight attendant attrition in April was 53. I don't know the breakdown of seniority, though.