More F/A Recalls

[galley princess]

UsAirways is some kind of weird parallel universe. As usual it goes back to bad management.

Some companies see a problem, and they fix it. There might be a cost, but if it saves money longterm, it's usually worth it. Not UsAirways.

I love how AWA has just sort of adopted some of East practices, but when it comes to the company saying "okay, we grew international in within a contract frame and this isn't working, let's make shifts", suddenly it's "you have a contract." The union would agree to 12 hour shifts yesterday. It's going to happen, why not fix the problem now with a side letter?

I'll tell you why, because the company likes the misery index as high as possible. That way any gain looks great. Forget that those European turn arounds or six hour delays alienate as many passengers as possible, not to mention the difficulty scheduling has getting a flight staffed at 4am, but this summer those 125 odd people are going to learn real fast how not to pick up the phone and those flights will be cancelled. Ahh, now we're talking money! You'd think the nightmare accountants would get that.

Except that weird West mentality: "they should just work it. That's what they're there for." Hope being right gets your airplane staffed. Here's a thought, consider human behavior and SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

Silly me.

 

[Travelpro72]

Princess......right on the money.

 

[DCAflyer]

I did too before the bucket system. I flew trips back to back day after day. I was called all times of the day. I still went. It wasn't a problem. I was even in the transatlantic division and I got those dreaded midnight phone calls. I did go to the airport for those 2 am departures even though it was snowing like crazy and I was scared to drive in the snow and couldn't see. I did it because I was at least somewhat rested. You see, my flights in the ITD didn't leave until 8pm. I never had to worry about being quickcalled early in the morning or late at night or anything like that. Yes, scheduling could call me at 6am but my flight didn't leave until 8pm. I had time to rest. I even had to fly three transatlantic trips back to back at times. It was brutal but I did it.

But like in ITD was not what it was in my side of the wall, the side where most people worked. Great for y'all.. it was easy to plan your days. Now you're living like the rest of us lived, on the edge, on "active reserve" for 24-6, then getting flown into your days off and having SKED trying to dick you out of getting those days back. Still, I say, nothing has changed (expect apparently for you former ITD folks who had the luxury of knowing that flights left in the 2000 hour and having to deal with the occasional irreg ops. For the rest of us, we were activly on call with a 90 minute callout. What you have yet to explain is, if you don't fly for a week, why are you not rested? Why are you any better than anybody else who gets called in the middle of the night? Why are you so special that you get to schluff the trip off on somebody, perhaps someone with more time than you? You see, the flight has to go out and somebody has to work it. And contrary to what you seem to be saying, life does not revolve around flightchik. You are no better or no worse than every other reserve, and graveyard shift phone calls go with the territory. And if you were fired because you were "fatigued" after not flying for a week, you'd be hard-pressed to convince any arbitrator that you were justified for your refusal to fly.

No I'm not.
Yes, you are!

Yes it has. See my comment above. Like I said in an earlier post, taking a late night flt to BUF doesn't compare to FCO. It just doesn't.

It has for you because you worked ITD, so you were, for the most part, protected from what the rest of us were doing based on the schedule of a division where all of the flights went out in the same hour. Believe it or not, most flight attendants wanted that wall down. So, I will ask what you would do if you were scheduling in this scenario... a mechanical forces the PHL-ATH a six-hour delay... the entire crew goes illegal. Now, there are two options, cancel the flights or recrew and take of at 0330. Are you telling me that the company to cancel the flights with a terminal full of already delayed PAXs because crewmembers don't like to get up in the middle of the night? (And it's not just one flight being cancelled, it's two and now involves repositioning the crew that is already in ATH.)

But you complained about getting a call in the middle of the night when you were tired... I got those calls too, nothing has changed... if that was a criteria for scheduling to use, nobody would get early a.m. calls, but that is not the way this industry works.
So you're telling me scheduling calls you to go to Rome or Athens at 12am? Do you like that? Do you think it is right? How do you feel when you work those trips?

I'm not upset about the rapist. I came in late at night and left very early before sunrise a few times over the last two weeks and I just remained vigilent and told my roommates I was coming. I didn't work myself up over that. We were laughing because he probably works at the airport on the ramp.

Well, you brought up the rapist, not me!

I flew then too. I worked the first flight to MAD and we also were understaffed with 6 f/as with a full service and a full plane. Remember the days when we had menus, hot towels, head sets, bev. service, push pull with wine and water offered with food, coffee service, then duty free, then water/oj services, then arrival with full meals and beverage service, and then forms. Then in Envoy we had that wonderful service with only two f/as in the front when we truly needed three for the type of service we used to do. We were all trying to help each other the whole time and the pax were scared and we flew over NYC and could see all the smoke. Everyone was upset.

Sounds like we were both busy doing our jobs.

When I was with US Airways before those stupid buckets, ITD was a separate division. Therefore, no late night transatlantic quick calls unless you were in the division. If you were in it, you knew your flight was going to leave in the evening so there was not a problem with being called out at any time of day or night. You knew you could sleep in if you wanted to or take a nap in the afternoon. With us being on call 24 hours a day with flights that leave at all times of the day or night, then it is totally different. Like I said before, flying to Europe at 2am is nothing like flying to BUF or even to LAS in the middle of the night. I got calls like that when I did domestic in the very beginning before the LTO system and I did it, but they were short flights. It's not the same. You've never experienced it so I don't think you will ever understand although you are trying to.

It sounds like you were lucky to be in that division. Most, if not all, other major airlines have demolished the wall. Now you know what the rest of us have had to put up with... it ain't pretty but it's your job. And calling out fatigued because you chose to interrupt your own rest to check your position is not fair on the next person in line. Somebody's going to work the flight and waving your arms and saying this isn't fair (when it is the job you were hired to do... be a reserve flight attendant) is only working you up into a frenzy. It's the job you signed on to do, at all hours of all days you are on a reserve block. Again, I strongly believe there should be 12-hour duty blocks (actually I believe there should be three 8-hour duty blocks but I know that's hoping for waaayyyy too much). We're on the same page there. I just don't see how you justify pawning off your responsibility when your number comes up to fly. You don't seem to realize that somebody else is going to have to do what should be your job.


Some of you may agree with me and some of you may not agree with me as far as the late night transatlantic quick calls. That is fine either way. I know how I feel about the situation and I am going to do what is right for me.

"Me! Me! Me!... It's all about Me"

With that being said, let's not discuss this any further. Instead, let's get back to the topic of the thread. So, what do you all think about them recalling more f/as?

You were the one who steered the topic in this direction.
I wonder how many will actually show up this next round. If I've been here 8 years and am only making $1200 a month then there is no way some of these people can survive on making $18 dollars an hour. Yikes! I bet many will quit very soon. It's too bad because we are no longer the airline where we were originally hired.

Agreed!

 

[DCAflyer]

What is the company or union going to do???? The have no control over what happens in the cities in which we reside.

The gentleman in question is not running around attacking people. He is on the governments list of preditors. He has done his time and is now living in the area....... Let's not make this into something it isn't. I am not saying that people should not be aware, but there is NOT an attacker on the lose. Again, the company nor union can do anything.

What the company can do is work with the airport to make certain that there are active security personnel walking the crew lot 24/7, make sure that all crew members know about the situation and that they should be vigilant in the crew lots, those types of things. The union, company, and airport authority can work together to make sure everyone is informed.

My response obviously answered your first paragraph. The second paragraph sort of moots my response, but I responded to a post that would make one think the sky is falling. so I guess my response can serve as a future guideline.

Cheers,
DCAflyer

 

[galley princess]

DCA, I hate to tell you, you can chat all you like about "i've done it". Until you experience LTO, you really just are not qualified to make judgments.

In a perfect world, your logic works. I have gone to PHL airport and been on the road with no one but salt trucks because the ENTIRE STATE was shut down but sked insisted that I go. PHL is a different animal. There is a REASON that Tempe is belatedly trying to deal with it. Am I betting on PHL kicking their kiester? If I had any money, I would bet LOTS! US astounds me with the potential PR nightmares that it courts. If I worked for a newspaper I could do an expose that would make your hair curl, just on PHL US.

LTO in PHL is an exercise in misery.

They have two choices if they want to protect the International bank. 1/ Agree to 12 hr shifts in a side letter. 2/ Have an OPR of 6 people overnight. Otherwise they're at the mercy of PHL cab drivers. Not where I would want to be.

 

[Twicebaked]

What the company can do is work with the airport to make certain that there are active security personnel walking the crew lot 24/7, make sure that all crew members know about the situation and that they should be vigilant in the crew lots, those types of things. The union, company, and airport authority can work together to make sure everyone is informed.

My response obviously answered your first paragraph. The second paragraph sort of moots my response, but I responded to a post that would make one think the sky is falling. so I guess my response can serve as a future guideline.

Cheers,
DCAflyer

All the airport can do is make the employee parking lot safe and NOTHING more. The police and other authorities are responsible for Essington NOT US Airways or the union.

Should the company then be responsible for EVERY murderer, rapist, child molester, drug pusher, etc. that resides within Philadelphia (good luck with that massive list) or other cities within our system? Do you think for one minute there may not be one near YOUR home or my home or other cities or countries that we fly too? Think about what you are basically blaming the company for once again.

The company IS NOT responsible for every aspect of your life!!! You are responsible for your own being.

If you want to know if a child molester convicted 20 YEARS AGO is living in Essington or where you live......look it up yourself.

It is Amber's law. Find the persons name and then Goggle it. It will tell you when they had been convicted.

Your home, residence, or city's (in which you are based) safety record or criminal occupants is NOT the company's problem.



Get real!!!!

 

[Twicebaked]

By the way, I just saw a commercial for Dr. Phil.

Tomorrow's topic..... "Is There A Sex Offender Living In Your Neighborhood?"

One woman said there is 200 living in her city. Just strengthens my point doesnt' it!???

I suggest you watch it.

 

[PowerUpPowerDown]

I just got my recall letter in the mail today for April 15..........180 more so it seems

 

[DCAflyer]

All the airport can do is make the employee parking lot safe and NOTHING more. The police and other authorities are responsible for Essington NOT US Airways or the union.

Should the company then be responsible for EVERY murderer, rapist, child molester, drug pusher, etc. that resides within Philadelphia (good luck with that massive list) or other cities within our system? Do you think for one minute there may not be one near YOUR home or my home or other cities or countries that we fly too? Think about what you are basically blaming the company for once again.

The company IS NOT responsible for every aspect of your life!!! You are responsible for your own being.

If you want to know if a child molester convicted 20 YEARS AGO is living in Essington or where you live......look it up yourself.

It is Amber's law. Find the persons name and then Goggle it. It will tell you when they had been convicted.

Your home, residence, or city's (in which you are based) safety record or criminal occupants is NOT the company's problem.



Get real!!!!

That's all I said, that the company and the union can work with the airport authority to add security to the crew lot if there is a serial rapist on the loose, which is certainly what the initial message where it was mentioned would have one believe (and was later clarified to apparently not be the case.) I am not and have not suggested that the company is responsible for every rapist or murderer. I simply responded to a message in which a poster is making excuses for not wanting to work trips assigned to her and I said all along that if it's a problem, contact the company and the union and try to get them to work with the airport authority to secure the crew lots.

 

[DCAflyer]

DCA, I hate to tell you, you can chat all you like about "i've done it". Until you experience LTO, you really just are not qualified to make judgments.

In a perfect world, your logic works. I have gone to PHL airport and been on the road with no one but salt trucks because the ENTIRE STATE was shut down but sked insisted that I go. PHL is a different animal. There is a REASON that Tempe is belatedly trying to deal with it. Am I betting on PHL kicking their kiester? If I had any money, I would bet LOTS! US astounds me with the potential PR nightmares that it courts. If I worked for a newspaper I could do an expose that would make your hair curl, just on PHL US.

LTO in PHL is an exercise in misery.

They have two choices if they want to protect the International bank. 1/ Agree to 12 hr shifts in a side letter. 2/ Have an OPR of 6 people overnight. Otherwise they're at the mercy of PHL cab drivers. Not where I would want to be.

I never said that LTO wasn't hell... I know it is. I simply responded to a poster who said she is refusing trips because she is too tired notwithstanding the fact that she hasn't flown in days, thereby forcing a flight attendant with a work ethic to take the trip. Everything she complained about is not unique to LTO... it's the same crap that has been the policy since day one... middle of the night calls, 90-minute callouts, etc., and by her own admission, she was shrouded in the international cloak for some time where all flights are scheduled to go out in the evening. She generally wasn't affected by what the rest of us were doing, that we were getting 3 a.m. callouts all along. She came up with every excuse in the book to justify that she shouldn't have to do the job. I pointed out from the very beginning that that is a reserve's job, whether or not LTO is in play... we get a call and we go to the airport. It's been that way for decades, and that is by no stretch of any imagination unique to US Airways, or east or west, or Philly or DC. It's what reserve flight attendants do. We had snowstorms before LTO and most flight attendants did their best to get to the airport if it was reasonably safe to do so. But all of these "buts" that people are bringing up have nothing to do with the original post... that a poster basically said "how dare the company call me at 0200 to work a Rome flight." You know what? The company doesn't really have a lot of control over whether or not it's an 0200 BUF flight or an 0200 delayed FCO flight that has to be recrewed because the crew became illegal, all they know is that they have to get at least six flight attendants and two pilots to do the flight. And if that one flight attendant is too tired because she's choosing to get up at all hours to check her placement in LTO, thereby voluntarily breaking up her own sleep, somebody else is getting a call at 0200 to work an 8 hour flight. That's not fair and it's a situation that has nothing to do with LTO. I agree that there are situations where people understandably are too fatigued and I absolutely back those people if they are genuinely too fatigued. But none of what she's complained about has squat to do with LTO, IMO. If I'm wrong, please tell me how. Like I said, once the wall came down, her life on reserve changed... nothing to do with LTO... everything to do with work ethic and letting down your fellow flight attendants who do what they are supposed to do when they are supposed to do it.

 

[FlightChic]

Somebody, and I won't name any names, has been drinking to much company Kool aid.

DCAFlyer, first of all you are twisting my words. You're reading comprehension skills are lacking. Plain and simple, you just don't get it. You make out like you know everything, but you don't. I don't know how long you've been a f/a but most of my friends in PHL don't put up with the 2am transatlantic trips. The LTO system has nothing to do with the shambles our transatlantic operation is in nor does it have anything to do with the late night transatlantic calls. I never said that it did so stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not going to explain myself anymore so if you want to waste time and go on and on about how wrong I am that is your prerogative. Have at it! Just know that to those of us in PHL who are living under this horrid system and being quick called in the middle of the night for 9 hour flights, you just look like a moron who doesn't know what he is talking about. As for my work ethic, you've never worked with me so you have no idea what my work ethic is like so stop acting like you do. BTW, are you a reserve? How long have you been flying? Were you ever furloughed? One more thing. You're right! It is all about Flight Chic! It's always all about Flight Chic! But next time you call me by name, you better spell my name correctly. It's very disrespectful when you misspell someone else's name.

 

[DCAflyer]

Somebody, and I won't name any names, has been drinking to much company Kool aid.

DCAFlyer, first of all you are twisting my words. You're reading comprehension skills are lacking. Plain and simple, you just don't get it. You make out like you know everything, but you don't. I don't know how long you've been a f/a but most of my friends in PHL don't put up with the 2am transatlantic trips. The LTO system has nothing to do with the shambles our transatlantic operation is in nor does it have anything to do with the late night transatlantic calls. I never said that it did so stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not going to explain myself anymore so if you want to waste time and go on and on about how wrong I am that is your prerogative. Have at it! Just know that to those of us in PHL who are living under this horrid system and being quick called in the middle of the night for 9 hour flights, you just look like a moron who doesn't know what he is talking about. As for my work ethic, you've never worked with me so you have no idea what my work ethic is like so stop acting like you do. BTW, are you a reserve? How long have you been flying? Were you ever furloughed? One more thing. You're right! It is all about Flight Chic! It's always all about Flight Chic! But next time you call me by name, you better spell my name correctly. It's very disrespectful when you misspell someone else's name.

First of all, I didn't twist your words. I wan't even responding to you when I did mention LTO; I was responding to galley princess. Who's the moron now? I will be the first to admit that I don't know everything but I do know that when you haven't flown in several days and then have the audacity to claim you are fatigued because a trip time is inconvenient for you, that you are cheating your fellow crew members.

And you still haven't answered my question... what is scheduling supposed to do when they have to, for whatever reason, recrew a 330? I question your work ethic because it obviously is showing through in your posts. If you don't work a flight that you are called to work, one of your co-workers has to. If it takes more time for the crew to come in because you're arguing with scheduling, the flight, the passengers, and the replacement crew are even further delayed. On the other side of the pond, the plane is coming in late and with a turn time, the return flight, passengers, and crew are further delayed. Newsflash, when you are a reserve, you get quickcalled and you don't get to pick what you fly. You make it sound like the company is imposing upon you, but you refuse to accept the fact that your job is your job, and when you number comes up to fly, you fly. You can say I'm drinking kool aid all you want, I really don't care. I'm not about doing this company any favors, but I don't consider doing my job a favor to the company, and I don't consider it drinking kool aid when I call someone to task because they aren't doing theirs and fellow crewmembers get stuck with it. Just like I don't consider it disrespectful when I mistype someone's fictitious internet name, especially when the word (....chic) is misspelled in the first place.

Ta

 

[FlightChic]

First of all, I didn't twist your words. I wan't even responding to you when I did mention LTO; I was responding to galley princess. Who's the moron now?
Flight Chic says: You're still the moron because you don't know what you're talking about.

I will be the first to admit that I don't know everything but I do know that when you haven't flown in several days and then have the audacity to claim you are fatigued because a trip time is inconvenient for you, that you are cheating your fellow crew members.
Flight Chic says: Whatever. That's not how it is.

And you still haven't answered my question... what is scheduling supposed to do when they have to, for whatever reason, recrew a 330?
Flight Chic says: If there is a transatlantic flight that is that delayed, what the company should do is get those passengers a hotel room for the night with food vouchers for breakfast and then take the flight out first thing in the morning. You do know they don't have catering for those late night flights, right? It's not fair for the pax nor the crew members.

I question your work ethic because it obviously is showing through in your posts. If you don't work a flight that you are called to work, one of your co-workers has to. If it takes more time for the crew to come in because you're arguing with scheduling, the flight, the passengers, and the replacement crew are even further delayed. On the other side of the pond, the plane is coming in late and with a turn time, the return flight, passengers, and crew are further delayed. Newsflash, when you are a reserve, you get quickcalled and you don't get to pick what you fly. You make it sound like the company is imposing upon you, but you refuse to accept the fact that your job is your job, and when you number comes up to fly, you fly. You can say I'm drinking kool aid all you want, I really don't care. I'm not about doing this company any favors, but I don't consider doing my job a favor to the company, and I don't consider it drinking kool aid when I call someone to task because they aren't doing theirs and fellow crewmembers get stuck with it.
Flight Chic says: Either you have had way to much kool aid, you are not a reserve or haven't been a reserve for long, or you have no idea what it's like in PHL. I don't care what you think of me or my work ethic. I know I have good work ethic. Don't judge me based on one circumstance.

Just like I don't consider it disrespectful when I mistype someone's fictitious internet name, especially when the word (....chic) is misspelled in the first place.
Flight Chic says: Well, I spell my name however I want to. When you address me, you should spell it accordingly.

Ta

One final thing - I refuse to discuss this any more. Good night! Sleep well!

BTW, you never answered my questions: When were you hired? How long have you been on reserve? Were you furloughed and if so when did you return from furlough?

 

[AlleghenyVista]

LOL. This is so damm funny to read. It really is hysterical. Well, actually its kind of sad as well. GO TO WORK people. Thats why you have a damm job. The whining and crying that some of you are posting is unreal.
Some of you are coming up with every damm excuse. "Im tired, ive been sitting in my house all day on call", "Its so unsafe to go to the airport at 2am!" Please..are you expecting crew scheuling to tell you "oh call us when you think its safe to go to work!" Get real people.

When I was hired and on reserve in PIT, I was quick called almost every week for a god awful 4 day on the F100,DC9 or 737-200 at 4 or 5 in the morning. 6 and 7 legs a day In PHL, I cant tell you the times I had to go to FCO at 2 and 3am. I was always dead tired, but I did it. It comes with the job I signed on for. Stop the bit%$in!

 

[Chicken or Beef??]

Remember folks....Schedulers DO NOT have the authority to fire you. They are JUST EMPLOYEES!!! Do not let them talk down to you or treat you like sh!t!! Stand up for yourselves. You would if another flight attendant treated you like that!!!!
[/quote]

You are correct, Schedulers do not have the authority to fire you. They will put you down as a "REFUSAL TO FLY" and report the incident to your supervisor/ base manager. They have the authority to discipline/ terminate you.