Flight Attendant Recalls In 2005
- Thread starter jimntx
- Start date
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
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jimntx said:Actually, Coop, both MIA and DFW are "carrying" overages right now. At the time you and others were forced out of MIA, the overage was so great that it couldn't be ignored. The current overages are "manageable."
And, don't think for a second that senior mamas and papas from DFW would be forced to LGA. The company and the AApfa would find a way for those of us who are junior at bases like ORD and SLT to be forced to LGA, then our spots at SLT and ORD would be filled by the DFW folk through "strictly by seniority domestic transfers."
[post="280320"][/post]
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Coop/jimntx (2 of my all time favorite F/A's) !!!!!
Your comments about "DF+W" are (shall I say) troubleing !!
Are you 2 SUGGESTING that there "might" be a game of "dirty pool", played with regard to your bretheren back in the "mother land" ???
NH/BB's
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
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- Banned
- #138
<_< Bear you may be retired, but believe me, things haven't changed that much!!!!! What do you think??? :unsure:NewHampshire Black Bears said:+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Coop/jimntx (2 of my all time favorite F/A's) !!!!!
Your comments about "DF+W" are (shall I say) troubleing !!
Are you 2 SUGGESTING that there "might" be a game of "dirty pool", played with regard to your bretheren back in the "mother land" ???Â
NH/BB's
[post="280581"][/post]
No Bears,
Jim is probably right about DFW's overage being manageable.
He is very correct about MIA's overage at the time of the forced-transfers...we were fighting for trips.
However, the 76 remaining MIA forced-transfers have hit 2 years now with no end in sight...it's very frustrating and APFA ( based in Euless) has no real interest in it.
All 182 DFW forced-transfers were recalled by NOV 2003.
The remaining LAX/SFO/DCA F/As were recalled by APR 2004.
I was being quite facetious in my comments about forcing the overage in DFW to LGA.
That WILL NOT happen. Jim's scenario is FAR more likely.
How many side letters of agreement do you think that would take, Jim?
s80dude, my dislike of DFW is a result of over seven years spent at "red-headed stepchild bases" (Five in MIA, two in SLT). I don't know where my year in BOS would figure into the mix...NH/BBs, care to comment on the "buckets" vs. ORD's "The Empire Strikes Back" de-icers? Or would that bring up bad pre-retirement memories
I still remember hearing "junior guy, you're in the bucket!!!"
It is not F/A specific but "masterbase" specific.
For example, I rarely encounter broken equipment in DFW. I have yet to find a phone that doesn't work, unlike MIA (where you were lucky one out of four worked, if they hadn't been stolen by the airport cleaners ABM...it stands for Anybody But Me). It's why the phones are locked up in MIA.
It's amazing MIA makes it through a daily operation with the manning, sheer volume, and OTS equipment. It's a testament to the many hard-working people there. That is not a joke. There are bad apples there but they are a minority. Just don't add ramp closings/WX into the mix.
On the F/A side, I have flown with a DFW crew that was one of the best crews I ever flew with (both were male, one was gay, one straight). The rest (almost all female) seemed to be in a Stepford-type bubble that either a) had me counting the minutes until the end of the trip or B) contemplating stabbing myself in the eye with a stir stick to lessen the pain.
One crew in particular (the "stir stick" crew) thought nothing of bad-mouthing MIA to my face. I won't tolerate that.
IMO, DFW has one of the better DOM bid-sheets in the system, I think AA keeps it that way for a reason.
ORD has to have the WORST DOM bid-sheet in the system. I wouldn't wish some of the trips I've flown out of there (on RSV) on my worst enemy. :down:
Coop
SLT
Jim is probably right about DFW's overage being manageable.
He is very correct about MIA's overage at the time of the forced-transfers...we were fighting for trips.
However, the 76 remaining MIA forced-transfers have hit 2 years now with no end in sight...it's very frustrating and APFA ( based in Euless) has no real interest in it.
All 182 DFW forced-transfers were recalled by NOV 2003.
The remaining LAX/SFO/DCA F/As were recalled by APR 2004.
I was being quite facetious in my comments about forcing the overage in DFW to LGA.
That WILL NOT happen. Jim's scenario is FAR more likely.
How many side letters of agreement do you think that would take, Jim?
s80dude, my dislike of DFW is a result of over seven years spent at "red-headed stepchild bases" (Five in MIA, two in SLT). I don't know where my year in BOS would figure into the mix...NH/BBs, care to comment on the "buckets" vs. ORD's "The Empire Strikes Back" de-icers? Or would that bring up bad pre-retirement memories
I still remember hearing "junior guy, you're in the bucket!!!" It is not F/A specific but "masterbase" specific.
For example, I rarely encounter broken equipment in DFW. I have yet to find a phone that doesn't work, unlike MIA (where you were lucky one out of four worked, if they hadn't been stolen by the airport cleaners ABM...it stands for Anybody But Me). It's why the phones are locked up in MIA.
It's amazing MIA makes it through a daily operation with the manning, sheer volume, and OTS equipment. It's a testament to the many hard-working people there. That is not a joke. There are bad apples there but they are a minority. Just don't add ramp closings/WX into the mix.
On the F/A side, I have flown with a DFW crew that was one of the best crews I ever flew with (both were male, one was gay, one straight). The rest (almost all female) seemed to be in a Stepford-type bubble that either a) had me counting the minutes until the end of the trip or B) contemplating stabbing myself in the eye with a stir stick to lessen the pain.
One crew in particular (the "stir stick" crew) thought nothing of bad-mouthing MIA to my face. I won't tolerate that.
IMO, DFW has one of the better DOM bid-sheets in the system, I think AA keeps it that way for a reason.
ORD has to have the WORST DOM bid-sheet in the system. I wouldn't wish some of the trips I've flown out of there (on RSV) on my worst enemy. :down:
Coop
SLT
NewHampshire Black Bears said:+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Coop/jimntx (2 of my all time favorite F/A's) !!!!!
Your comments about "DF+W" are (shall I say) troubleing !!
Are you 2 SUGGESTING that there "might" be a game of "dirty pool", played with regard to your bretheren back in the "mother land" ???
NH/BB's
[post="280581"][/post]
AC AA LA FA,
Was a stir stick (or thoughts of one) involved?
Seriously, I have only recently dealt with the DOM vs. INTL drama. It wasn't as recognizable in MIA/IMA.
IMA is compensated to fly the same crappy-style trips with Customs/Immigration. They usually have more fun than DOM.
At certain other bases (IOR/IDF, and possibly LAX-I), I don't quite think they are feeling the pain of the RPA.
I recently lost it with a 20 year ORD F/A in the K2 smoking lounge when she suggested we go to straight RSV to alleviate the pain of the ORD RSV list.
I told her if she wanted to see herself on straight RSV, to work on that.
How long was she realistically on straight RSV as an '85 new-hire? AA expanded like crazy in MIA (and other places) in the early '90's".
I pointed out that the previous month had seen 110 F/As leave the company...only 24 were retirements.
I have 10 years with this company, I WILL NOT do straight RSV, I can't afford it.
Do you think the '97-01 new-hires have that much of an investment? They don't.
The '93 new-hires are probably the reason 3-and-1 came about.
There were not enough classes of '95 to make a difference.
Does anyone know when 3-and-1 started?
You can complain about the '97-01' new-hires but they are the RSV fodder.
The current APFA administration is extremely "senior-focused" but you have to give the juniors some credit.
If we leave, are you on the back-up list anymore? (Not you personally, but those that are grumbling about bring back straight RSV). I suspect you are on RSV, regardless.
Coop
SLT
Was a stir stick (or thoughts of one) involved?
Seriously, I have only recently dealt with the DOM vs. INTL drama. It wasn't as recognizable in MIA/IMA.
IMA is compensated to fly the same crappy-style trips with Customs/Immigration. They usually have more fun than DOM.
At certain other bases (IOR/IDF, and possibly LAX-I), I don't quite think they are feeling the pain of the RPA.
I recently lost it with a 20 year ORD F/A in the K2 smoking lounge when she suggested we go to straight RSV to alleviate the pain of the ORD RSV list.
I told her if she wanted to see herself on straight RSV, to work on that.
How long was she realistically on straight RSV as an '85 new-hire? AA expanded like crazy in MIA (and other places) in the early '90's".
I pointed out that the previous month had seen 110 F/As leave the company...only 24 were retirements.
I have 10 years with this company, I WILL NOT do straight RSV, I can't afford it.
Do you think the '97-01 new-hires have that much of an investment? They don't.
The '93 new-hires are probably the reason 3-and-1 came about.
There were not enough classes of '95 to make a difference.
Does anyone know when 3-and-1 started?
You can complain about the '97-01' new-hires but they are the RSV fodder.
The current APFA administration is extremely "senior-focused" but you have to give the juniors some credit.
If we leave, are you on the back-up list anymore?
(Not you personally, but those that are grumbling about bring back straight RSV). I suspect you are on RSV, regardless.Coop
SLT
AC AA LA FA said:
Corinth2103
Member
"The '93 new-hires are probably the reason 3-and-1 came about.
There were not enough classes of '95 to make a difference.
Does anyone know when 3-and-1 started?"
The 3-and-1 rotation was around way before the '93 new hires (if I remember correctly, '93 was to be a full year of classes but b/c of the contract negotiations and threat of the strike, there were only about 5 classes trained)....in fact, I think the 3-and-1 rotation actually began after the last contract negotiations in '87. I transferred from res to flight service in '91 and I remember counting down the months/years until I was finished with 1-on-1-off.
And I also don't want straight rsv..I'm still on rsv at IDF and will be for at least the next five years or so and straight rsv holds as much allure as shoving the stir stick into my eye!! As it is, we're doing roughly 1-2 trips each rsv month on the domestic side at DFW or covering a sequence out of ORD. I just finished a glorious 3 day where I got to spend 8.5 hrs in MSP one night...woohoo!!
Tim
There were not enough classes of '95 to make a difference.
Does anyone know when 3-and-1 started?"
The 3-and-1 rotation was around way before the '93 new hires (if I remember correctly, '93 was to be a full year of classes but b/c of the contract negotiations and threat of the strike, there were only about 5 classes trained)....in fact, I think the 3-and-1 rotation actually began after the last contract negotiations in '87. I transferred from res to flight service in '91 and I remember counting down the months/years until I was finished with 1-on-1-off.
And I also don't want straight rsv..I'm still on rsv at IDF and will be for at least the next five years or so and straight rsv holds as much allure as shoving the stir stick into my eye!! As it is, we're doing roughly 1-2 trips each rsv month on the domestic side at DFW or covering a sequence out of ORD. I just finished a glorious 3 day where I got to spend 8.5 hrs in MSP one night...woohoo!!
Tim
kirkpatrick
Veteran
June attrition was 105, still on the high side. Let's hope the trend continues. 33 TWAers retired from furlough in June, making the total for the year 222. 3207 TWA FA's remain on the furlough list.flydcoop said:
MK
Tim,
You got an extra 30 minutes on your MSP layover? LOL!!!
Did you sleep sitting up because you were terrified you wouldn't wake-up after a 13-15 hour duty day? I've done that many times.
This is what it is like to be DOM on almost EVERY trip.
I don't wish crappy trips on anyone but I think when INTL is given a DOM sequence, it's a bit of an eye-opener regarding what the RPA really is.
If you are used to holding the same 20-plus hour layover in Europe on the same aircraft and work position, I imagine being reassigned to fly #1 on a NB DOM sequence (out of the Midwest, especially) is like having ice water thrown in your face.
Empathy is GOOD! LOL! No, seriously, juniors deserve a bit more respect than we often get. Juniors are not this annoying little gnat that must be swatted away...just as the "Senior" argument would (in theory, eventually ) benefit juniors, the same could be applied in the reverse.
There is no union agenda for straight RSV. It was merely a conversation/argument I had with with another F/A in ORD.
Coop
SLT
And I also don't want straight rsv..I'm still on rsv at IDF and will be for at least the next five years or so and straight rsv holds as much allure as shoving the stir stick into my eye!! As it is, we're doing roughly 1-2 trips each rsv month on the domestic side at DFW or covering a sequence out of ORD. I just finished a glorious 3 day where I got to spend 8.5 hrs in MSP one night...woohoo!!
Tim
You got an extra 30 minutes on your MSP layover? LOL!!!
Did you sleep sitting up because you were terrified you wouldn't wake-up after a 13-15 hour duty day? I've done that many times.
This is what it is like to be DOM on almost EVERY trip.
I don't wish crappy trips on anyone but I think when INTL is given a DOM sequence, it's a bit of an eye-opener regarding what the RPA really is.
If you are used to holding the same 20-plus hour layover in Europe on the same aircraft and work position, I imagine being reassigned to fly #1 on a NB DOM sequence (out of the Midwest, especially) is like having ice water thrown in your face.
Empathy is GOOD! LOL! No, seriously, juniors deserve a bit more respect than we often get. Juniors are not this annoying little gnat that must be swatted away...just as the "Senior" argument would (in theory, eventually ) benefit juniors, the same could be applied in the reverse.
There is no union agenda for straight RSV. It was merely a conversation/argument I had with with another F/A in ORD.
Coop
SLT
And I also don't want straight rsv..I'm still on rsv at IDF and will be for at least the next five years or so and straight rsv holds as much allure as shoving the stir stick into my eye!! As it is, we're doing roughly 1-2 trips each rsv month on the domestic side at DFW or covering a sequence out of ORD. I just finished a glorious 3 day where I got to spend 8.5 hrs in MSP one night...woohoo!!
Tim
[post="280755"][/post]
[/quote]I hope so for your sake as well.
I support the 10 year recall and I'm based in SLT/STL. We all know what that means.
I swear there are more than more than 3207 of you, you are EVERYWHERE...LOL!
SLT/STL deals with TWA more than any other base and I'm happy to say that out of my many dealings with former TW, only 3 have been negative. I have more negative stories regarding my dealings with other bases.
What concerns me now is the price of oil and the possible grounding of A/C after the "rush". We're in the thick of summer right now and Step 9 was opened at ALL bases.
I'm also concerned about "Eagle-fication". Not to degrade Eagle at all (they work darned hard) but it affects my work group.
Who knows what the fall holds?
I thought for sure we would see a recall by the holidays...let's hope on attrition.
Coop
SLT
I support the 10 year recall and I'm based in SLT/STL. We all know what that means.
I swear there are more than more than 3207 of you, you are EVERYWHERE...LOL!
SLT/STL deals with TWA more than any other base and I'm happy to say that out of my many dealings with former TW, only 3 have been negative. I have more negative stories regarding my dealings with other bases.
What concerns me now is the price of oil and the possible grounding of A/C after the "rush". We're in the thick of summer right now and Step 9 was opened at ALL bases.
I'm also concerned about "Eagle-fication". Not to degrade Eagle at all (they work darned hard) but it affects my work group.
Who knows what the fall holds?
I thought for sure we would see a recall by the holidays...let's hope on attrition.
Coop
SLT
kirkpatrick said:
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #145
Coop, to be fair, there ain't all that many 20+hr layovers left in International either. I was talking to an IMA f/a--long story involving van from Breckenridge to Denver last winter--she was on her way to work a Buenos Aires trip. That used to be one of the premier layovers in the entire system. She told me it is now 12 hours on the ground! Get in at something like 0700, depart to return to MIA at 2000. Ugly.flydcoop said:
As far as the Fall...
Brace yourselves, boys and girls. I don't think it is going to be pretty. The company has firm plans to ground 20 a/c after Labor Day. Don't know which 20, so don't ask. If the price of oil continues upward, the number of groundings will increase. I don't see that the company has a choice. They would have to re-trench to the routes that they KNOW can make money.
I will make a prediction myself...
If oil does reach $100/bbl--which is a prediction being made in some knowledgeable circles--I and everyone around my seniority will be furloughed again. Those wishing for straight reserve should maybe re-think that position.
Corinth2103
Member
jimntx said:
You're right Jim...Buenos Aires, Santiago, Sao Paulo...all used to be 36 hour layovers more or less. Now, after flying roughly 10 hours non stop, you leave again that evening for DFW. Santiago is notorious for being late all the time; it's the last Intl flight to leave DFW and if something goes awry with another flight, the 767 is taken while we wait for another which pushes departure to after 11 or 12 midnight. It gets pretty ridiculous when your layover time is shorter than the actual flight time to get you down to deep South America. Rumor has it that we may see some of the longer layovers back again. The money saved having us return while the pilots stay the entire 36 hours, balanced against all the delays and
cancellations and what that can cost in more ways than just $$$, may not be worth it afterall. I'll believe it when I finally see it on the bid sheet though.
Europe, Hawaii, and Tokyo still offer decent layovers of at least 24 hours.
Caribbean, Cancun, and Central America can be under 10 except on a rare occasion. With 14 years flying and at IDF, that's more my speed as to what I can actually hold there!!
My occasional DOM flights on RSV do open my eyes and everyone elses from INT.
We are constantly commenting on how AA gets away with it b/c that 8.5 hours I had in MSP was on paper. Add in waiting for the hotel van to come pick us up
(late again which I hear is pretty common) and you are easily under 8 hours and feeling like crap the next day.
Tim
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,940
- 9,371
Jim, hadn't heard about grounding 20 more aircraft post-labor day. I've heard indications that some of the MD80's currently in storage at Roswell, NM would either stay in storage or be parted out, but those seats and bid lines are already out of the system.
As a side note, due to attrition, UAL is said to have almost exhausted its FA recall lists, and may need to hire off the street before the end of the year....
As a side note, due to attrition, UAL is said to have almost exhausted its FA recall lists, and may need to hire off the street before the end of the year....
kirkpatrick
Veteran
It doesn't make sense to me either. The schedules are already in Sabre and I've seen no announcement about any decrease in service, and Sept is just around the corner as far as schedules are concerned.Former ModerAAtor said:
As far as UA FA's being recalled, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they have anyone on involuntary furlough.
AA's overage program is only for one year after a furlough is announced, then all must return to work. It's too bad they can't extend it to allow junior people, at lower pay (present company excepted) to have their jobs back. Another thing that would help is a recall bypass. We had that at TWA, where you didn't have to accept a recall as long as there was someone else on the list to be recalled. If AA would do these two things I'd be flying right now, instead of selling toilets at Home Depot.
MK
