Fired On Sick List Update

[operaations]

Violate the sick policy?!? I don't think so. You are suggesting that a person calling in sick from his/her flight attendant duties is actually "SICK"! What does a person do when they break their leg....they call in SICK. Having a baby soon....call in SICK. These two examples indicate that a person may be out on sick list, but they are not necessarily "sick". When sick, one is not required to disclose why they are putting themselves on a sick list, so any of the above scenarios could be the case. Just because one is forced to use the sick bank doesn't mean they should not be allowed to use their company benefits (travel) Obviously the union and the company came to the same conclusion.

Operaations.........do you spend your nights stewing about the stews?   :bleh:

To answer your question FLY I do not spen nights worrying about flight attendants. I actually like flight attendants (Professional Ones) I like anyone who does their job honestly with honor and respect for rules and regulations. I will not get into a pissing match with you or hotel. You two are not worth the time or energy.

operations,
"Respect for rules and reg's."

Question,
What if the "genious's that write the R+R, don't scrutinize them so as to be able to withstand a LEGAL challenge ???????????

STILL RESPECT THEM ???????????????????????????????????????????????????

NH/BB's


Ps.,
Even the *ucked up "self managed" sick policy that your on, can be beaten, using your head, coupled with a "patient friendly" doctor, and a good lawyer(if need be) !!

If the people that write the rules and regs actually follow them and do not make stupid mistakes like they did with the flight attendants then there would not be a problem. The problem is management does not follow through leaves loopholes and does things in such a sloppy manner people get away with murder

 

[Garfield1966]

Violate the sick policy?!? I don't think so. You are suggesting that a person calling in sick from his/her flight attendant duties is actually "SICK"! What does a person do when they break their leg....they call in SICK. Having a baby soon....call in SICK. These two examples indicate that a person may be out on sick list, but they are not necessarily "sick". When sick, one is not required to disclose why they are putting themselves on a sick list, so any of the above scenarios could be the case. Just because one is forced to use the sick bank doesn't mean they should not be allowed to use their company benefits (travel) Obviously the union and the company came to the same conclusion.

Operaations.........do you spend your nights stewing about the stews? :bleh:

You’re funny fly. Almost as funny as Hotel boy. Breaking a leg or having morning sickness is a legitimate reason for calling in sick. I see no reason why a person on the sick list should be prohibited from flying using passes when sick. The FA’s that we do not like are the ones who have been sick for the past several holidays, the ones who abuse family leave for their own benefit. The ones who call in sick when they are at a party … etc. I have said it numerous times, but it bears repeating for those who ride the short bus. When the sick list doubles during the holiday and then goes back to normal right after the holiday it means one of two things. Either there is an epidemic that only affects FA’s and only during the holidays (in which case the CDC needs to be called) or the number of FA’s on the sick list above the average daily count are abusing the sick policy and should be dealt with accordingly. When the daily average is at 1,000 and it increases to well over 2,000 that means that well over 1,000 FA’s are lying through their teeth. It is simple math, nothing more nothing less.

As far as the return of the losers back to payroll, I cannot say I am surprised. It seems to be easier to acquiesce to the union pukes than to fight them.

Bear, I have not needed a union in the over 15 years I have been with AA and I do not need a lawyer or DR to write me a bogus note to get out of work. I hired on knowing that the company operated 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and 52 weeks a year. I knew that it included nights, weekends and holidays. I agreed to those terms when I accepted employment. If I want a desk job with holidays and weekends off, there are plenty of positions with AA that fit those requirements. Further more, I would never want to be part of a union, or have a union mentality that would support individuals that abuse the system.

I am very curious how the attendance policy will change when we at crew skd are not able to make the system work one year. So far we have always managed to pull a miracle out of our butt and make the system work with only minimal cancellations. I’d be very curious to see what happens.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

Garfield1966 and operaations,

Have the two of you Scheduler Clowns, thought of working for the biggest anti/non-union airline? Delta has your names all over it!

Garfield1966...It amazes me to that the sick list is high during the holidays. I wonder why that is...HMMMMM?

 

[TWAnr]

Either there is an epidemic that only affects FA’s and only during the holidays (in which case the CDC needs to be called) or the number of FA’s on the sick list above the average daily count are abusing the sick policy and should be dealt with accordingly. When the daily average is at 1,000 and it increases to well over 2,000 that means that well over 1,000 FA’s are lying through their teeth. It is simple math, nothing more nothing less.

Garfield,

Flight attendants do get sicker more often than the average person due to the higher risk caused by their work environment. Being sealed in an aluminum tube, for hours at a time, with sick, coughing and hacking people puts them in contact with more contagious germs and viruses during one flight than the average person is exposed to in the entire winter season.

My wife used to get three to four episodes a winter of upper respiratory or sinus infections, while she was flying. Guess how many such illnesses she has suffered since her furlough this summer. The answer is zero.

I am not saying that there is no abuse of the sick policy; however, the work environment does put the flight attendants at a higher risk of getting sick.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Garfield,

Flight attendants do get sicker more often than the average person due to the higher risk caused by their work environment. Being sealed in an aluminum tube, for hours at a time, with sick, coughing and hacking people puts them in contact with more contagious germs and viruses during one flight than the average person is exposed to in the entire winter season.

My wife used to get three to four episodes a winter of upper respiratory or sinus infections, while she was flying. Guess how many such illnesses she has suffered since her furlough this summer. The answer is zero.

I am not saying that there is no abuse of the sick policy; however, the work environment does put the flight attendants at a higher risk of getting sick.

Garfield/ops,
TWAnr's post, IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU 2 "REFUSE"(VIA DENIAL) TO ACKNOWLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Garfield,
SERIOUSLY, it amazes me that,
(IMHO), 1/2 the time, you can be very smart and logical,
AND then turn around and throw your "Stockholm Syndrome" switch(AA KOOL AID) to the "ON" position, and make an A$$ out of your self.

I swear to the Creator above, that the word "resist", must be missing from every dictionary in the (sad) state of TEX-A$$ !!!!!!!!!!

Just because AA try's to"ram"any procedure down your (non union) throats, does it mean it's just, or can't be opposed(like in "we agree. to disagree")


NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Garfield,
Furthermore,
Before you tell me that as far as the sick policy is concerned, "It IS what it IS", explain why the F/A's policy IS so much more Liberal than yours???
AND,
Don't answer, "It's because they have a Union"

It's BECAUSE AA is (very effectively) ramming a $hitty policy, down your throat, all the while KNOWING virtually NOBODY will challenge them !!!!

NH/BB's

 

[mjk]

Garfield,
SERIOUSLY, it amazes me that,
(IMHO), 1/2 the time, you can be very smart and logical,

Can you feel the :wub: ???

NHBB had me choked up. For a sec there I thought you two were gonna kiss and make up.

In a totally off topic question, does the Univ of NH even have a football team?

 

[jimntx]

I am not saying that there is no abuse of the sick policy; however, the work environment does put the flight attendants at a higher risk of getting sick.

Garfield/ops,
TWAnr's post, IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU 2 "REFUSE"(VIA DENIAL) TO ACKNOWLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]
NHBB, go back and read Gar's post. He never said that flight attendants should be or are less sick than their counterparts. What he said was that the sick list doubles a couple of days before Christmas, July 4th, Thanksgiving, you name it, and then goes back down the day after.

TWAnr, as a flight attendant, one of my major rants has always been regarding the "attendance managers"--which, by the way, are being eliminated. When I had just about a year on the line, I said to Jane Allen at a Town Hall meeting that it seemed to skirt the boundaries of legality to grant a benefit to an employee group and then harass them when they availed themselves of the benefit.

However, I said, and I still say, if you are too sick to work--particularly, if you are sick with a viral/bacterial infection picked up from your passengers--YOU ARE TOO SICK TO FLY NON-REV.

Hotel, we are not talking about people who get sick during a trip and need to get home. We are talking about people who year after year call in sick during holidays because they don't have the seniority to hold a line which gives them the day off. It's just wrong and you know it. Is the purpose of our union to do nothing more than protect the jobs of people who don't like coming to work?

And some of the people are not even bidding. They PLAN to call in sick at Christmas. I'm one of those rare birds who got DFW right out of training. I held Christmas Day off from the very first year because I bid very carefully. I know of one flight attendant who--fortunately for the company and the traveling public and her fellow flight attendants--is now furloughed, who never bid a single time during the 3 years she flew. She said that she got better relief lines than she could bid. Maybe, maybe not. What I do know is that during the 3 years we flew, she called in sick EVERY Christmas. And, then would have a miraculous recovery immediately afterward.

In the two years, 10 months I flew, I was off sick twice. The first time in early December, 2000 with the flu caught from a passenger. I got a Z-pack (can't remember the name of the antibiotic, but it comes in a Z-pack) from my doctor and was back on the line 4 days later. In April, 2001, I was off for several days by order of AA Medical due to blocked ears--and that's a long story that can still make me steam over the total incompetence of AA Medical. From 12Apr01 until 28JUN03 (last day to fly), I was there for every flight and every reserve day I was assigned. Being a flight attendant is just not that hard of a job.

From what I've seen, there are a LOT of flight attendants who would not last a year at most jobs in the real world because of their total lack of a work ethic. I take that back, they have a work ethic--it's "I'll go to work as long as I don't have something better to do." And, don't get your knickers in a twist. I didn't say ALL flight attendants, I said a LOT of them.

 

[AirLUVer]

Garfield/ops,
TWAnr's post, IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU 2 "REFUSE"(VIA DENIAL) TO ACKNOWLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NHBB, go back and read Gar's post. He never said that flight attendants should be or are less sick than their counterparts. What he said was that the sick list doubles a couple of days before Christmas, July 4th, Thanksgiving, you name it, and then goes back down the day after.

TWAnr, as a flight attendant, one of my major rants has always been regarding the "attendance managers"--which, by the way, are being eliminated. When I had just about a year on the line, I said to Jane Allen at a Town Hall meeting that it seemed to skirt the boundaries of legality to grant a benefit to an employee group and then harass them when they availed themselves of the benefit.

However, I said, and I still say, if you are too sick to work--particularly, if you are sick with a viral/bacterial infection picked up from your passengers--YOU ARE TOO SICK TO FLY NON-REV.

Hotel, we are not talking about people who get sick during a trip and need to get home. We are talking about people who year after year call in sick during holidays because they don't have the seniority to hold a line which gives them the day off. It's just wrong and you know it. Is the purpose of our union to do nothing more than protect the jobs of people who don't like coming to work?

And some of the people are not even bidding. They PLAN to call in sick at Christmas. I'm one of those rare birds who got DFW right out of training. I held Christmas Day off from the very first year because I bid very carefully. I know of one flight attendant who--fortunately for the company and the traveling public and her fellow flight attendants--is now furloughed, who never bid a single time during the 3 years she flew. She said that she got better relief lines than she could bid. Maybe, maybe not. What I do know is that during the 3 years we flew, she called in sick EVERY Christmas. And, then would have a miraculous recovery immediately afterward.

In the two years, 10 months I flew, I was off sick twice. The first time in early December, 2000 with the flu caught from a passenger. I got a Z-pack (can't remember the name of the antibiotic, but it comes in a Z-pack) from my doctor and was back on the line 4 days later. In April, 2001, I was off for several days by order of AA Medical due to blocked ears--and that's a long story that can still make me steam over the total incompetence of AA Medical. From 12Apr01 until 28JUN03 (last day to fly), I was there for every flight and every reserve day I was assigned. Being a flight attendant is just not that hard of a job.

From what I've seen, there are a LOT of flight attendants who would not last a year at most jobs in the real world because of their total lack of a work ethic. I take that back, they have a work ethic--it's "I'll go to work as long as I don't have something better to do." And, don't get your knickers in a twist. I didn't say ALL flight attendants, I said a LOT of them. [/quote]
Thank you.

'nuff said

 

[TWAnr]

However, I said, and I still say, if you are too sick to work--particularly, if you are sick with a viral/bacterial infection picked up from your passengers--YOU ARE TOO SICK TO FLY NON-REV.

Jim,

I am in total agreement with you on this point; however, there are certain medical conditions, such as broken bones and non contagious maladies that can justify being off sick from work but do not affect one's ability to travel or put other people on the airplane at the risk of getting sick.

And some of the people are not even bidding. They PLAN to call in sick at Christmas. I'm one of those rare birds who got DFW right out of training. I held Christmas Day off from the very first year because I bid very carefully. I know of one flight attendant who...  she called in sick EVERY Christmas. And, then would have a miraculous recovery immediately afterward.

My wife and I are Jewish, we do not celebrate Christmas. She always made a point to bid lines that included Christmas Day flying or layovers in order to enable someone who did observe the holiday to have the day off. There was always an upside to it. Every December, at TWA she was always able to hold what would normally be very senior lines. I remember a three days layover in Paris one Christmas, two days spent in Vienna on another and other day to a day and a half long Christmas stays in Tel Aviv, Kona and San Juan.

I got a Z-pack (can't remember the name of the antibiotic, but it comes in a Z-pack) from my doctor and was back on the line 4 days later.

Zithromax - Great stuff.

 

[jimntx]

Jim,

I am in total agreement with you on this point; however, there are certain medical conditions, such as broken bones and non contagious maladies that can justify being off sick from work but do not affect one's ability to travel or put other people on the airplane at the risk of getting sick.

Couldn't agree more. I think AMR's refusal to permit non-rev while off work with broken bones or catastrophic illnesses--like cancer--or while on IOD is draconian, at best. But right now, the policy is what it is. This is the sort of thing that APFA should be working to change instead of protecting the jobs of people who should be fired.

Saving the job of someone who doesn't really want the job benefits no one. Getting this ridiculous sick leave policy changed would benefit everyone, but that doesn't seem to be the APFA style.

 

[Garfield1966]

Garfield,

Flight attendants do get sicker more often than the average person due to the higher risk caused by their work environment. Being sealed in an aluminum tube, for hours at a time, with sick, coughing and hacking people puts them in contact with more contagious germs and viruses during one flight than the average person is exposed to in the entire winter season.

My wife used to get three to four episodes a winter of upper respiratory or sinus infections, while she was flying. Guess how many such illnesses she has suffered since her furlough this summer. The answer is zero.

I am not saying that there is no abuse of the sick policy; however, the work environment does put the flight attendants at a higher risk of getting sick.

Please go back and read Jim’s post.

For your argument to hold true, there should be only a small bump, if any at all in the sick list on major holidays as you come into contact with these sick people on a regular basis. This is a simple statistical average that I am referring to. There are on average 1,000-1,100 people on the sick list right now through out the year. When a holiday such as Christmas rolls around, it went up to over 2,500. That means, that well over 1,000 FA’s decided to call in sick because they did not feel like they should have to work. Its is very simple. Your only other possibility is to contact the CDC and notify them of an epidemic.

Bear,

I have no problem with my sick policy. I have never had a problem with my sick policy. I show up for work when I am scheduled to do so and on the rare occasion that I am sick, I call in sick. Never had a problem, and I am $41.00 richer a month with out having to worry about all the crap that you have. OH yea, been screwed over less by the company than you have or so it would seem according to this BB.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Garfield,

Flight attendants do get sicker more often than the average person due to the higher risk caused by their work environment. Being sealed in an aluminum tube, for hours at a time, with sick, coughing and hacking people puts them in contact with more contagious germs and viruses during one flight than the average person is exposed to in the entire winter season.

My wife used to get three to four episodes a winter of upper respiratory or sinus infections, while she was flying. Guess how many such illnesses she has suffered since her furlough this summer. The answer is zero.

I am not saying that there is no abuse of the sick policy; however, the work environment does put the flight attendants at a higher risk of getting sick.

Please go back and read Jim’s post.

For your argument to hold true, there should be only a small bump, if any at all in the sick list on major holidays as you come into contact with these sick people on a regular basis. This is a simple statistical average that I am referring to. There are on average 1,000-1,100 people on the sick list right now through out the year. When a holiday such as Christmas rolls around, it went up to over 2,500. That means, that well over 1,000 FA’s decided to call in sick because they did not feel like they should have to work. Its is very simple. Your only other possibility is to contact the CDC and notify them of an epidemic.

Bear,

I have no problem with my sick policy. I have never had a problem with my sick policy. I show up for work when I am scheduled to do so and on the rare occasion that I am sick, I call in sick. Never had a problem, and I am $41.00 richer a month with out having to worry about all the crap that you have. OH yea, been screwed over less by the company than you have or so it would seem according to this BB.

"Jeez", garfield;
At least you could have acknowleged that I said you were VERY INTELLIGENT, and LOGICAL, "1/2 the time" :angry: :angry:

NH/BB's

 

[TWAnr]

I am not saying that there is no abuse of the sick policy; however, the work environment does put the flight attendants at a higher risk of getting sick.

Please go back and read Jim’s post.

May I suggest that you reread mine, the one which you quoted in your answer, and try to comprehend the last paragraph.

 

[Garfield1966]

Are you acknowledging that the 1,000 plus were faking it or are you implying that only a small number of them were faking it?