Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[N924PS]

Keith "gets" the situation on our side. Don't look for any favors from him either way (East or West.) APA wants this to go away, just as Parker does. Like I said yesterday, when the West "problem" get enough traction, perceived or real, it will be dealt with. The solution will be fair and balanced, and based on process (there is that nasty word, again!).

I am sure Wilson is more than capable of using our divided group to the betterment of his own pilots. I would expect nothing less of a good leader. But like Parker, Kirby, and even Hummel..the ultimate goal is the creation of the world's largest airline, with benefits for all pilots.

Have you ever seen the original hand drawn short film called "Bambi vs. Godzilla?" Leonidas is the new Bambi in this merger.

Greeter

The easiest and most legal way for APA and the company to have the "East Problem" go away is to simply insist on the Nicolau Award as the starting point for negotiations/arbitration.

The West didn't create this problem, so it rightly should be termed an" East Problem".

I think you're wrong. USAPA is the new Bambi.

 

[Pi brat]

The easiest and most legal way for APA and the company to have the "East Problem" go away is to simply insist on the Nicolau Award as the starting point for negotiations/arbitration.

The West didn't create this problem, so it rightly should be termed an" East Problem".

I think you're wrong. USAPA is the new Bambi.

Do they have that right? Would we have the right to dictate what they submit? Did US Air submit your list or did PSA Alpa back when?

 

[N924PS]

Do they have that right? Would we have the right to dictate what they submit? Did US Air submit your list or did PSA Alpa back when?

I don't know. I guess the East pilots thought they had the right to change unions to subvert a binding arbitration.

Perhaps the company will feel they have the right and more importantly, a legal obligation to use a list they accepted and paid for.

One thing for sure, the New American Airlines seniority list will not be DOH, and my name won't appear on it.

 

[nic4us]

Do they have that right? Would we have the right to dictate what they submit? Did US Air submit your list or did PSA Alpa back when?

Not only do they have that right, they have that obligation to their constituency and the stockholders.

Same problem that Tashima and Graber could not
grasp...the scab union puts the company in jeopardy, and therefore there will be no negotiations with uscaba.

Sure, a union has the right to negotiate, problem for uscaba is they have no party to negotiate with!

 

[cleardirect]

Nice post, do you have a link or source?

Source was APA update

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I don't know. I guess the East pilots thought they had the right to change unions to subvert a binding arbitration.

THEY HAD THE RIGHT, EXERCISED IT, AND SUBVERTED A BINDING ARBITRATION. YEP.

Perhaps the company will feel they have the right and more importantly, a legal obligation to use a list they accepted and paid for.

WATCH JUST A LITTLE WHILE LONGER.

One thing for sure, the New American Airlines seniority list will not be DOH, and my name won't appear on it.

YET ANOTHER "FOR SURE." WATCH AND WAIT. AS TO YOUR DEPARTURE, HAPPY TRAILS. THE FACT YOU ARE STILL HERE ON THIS FORUM WITH THE LIKES OF ME GIVES ME PAUSE!

Greeter

 

[Pi brat]

I don't know. I guess the East pilots thought they had the right to change unions to subvert a binding arbitration.

Perhaps the company will feel they have the right and more importantly, a legal obligation to use a list they accepted and paid for.

One thing for sure, the New American Airlines seniority list will not be DOH, and my name won't appear on it.

You didn't answer my question. Who submitted your name back in '85 or '86. Did it come from San Diego or Pittsburgh?

 

[cleardirect]

Do they have that right? Would we have the right to dictate what they submit? Did US Air submit your list or did PSA Alpa back when?

When the APA becomes the bargaining agent it will be the APA's right to submit the list for us airways pilots.

Read the update. Wilson thinks 24-30 months. Lots of time for the NMB to rule.

Usapa will not exist so they will not have the right to do anything.

 

[Pi brat]

Not only do they have that right, they have that obligation to their constituency and the stockholders.

Same problem that Tashima and Graber could not
grasp...the scab union puts the company in jeopardy, and therefore there will be no negotiations with uscaba.

Sure, a union has the right to negotiate, problem for uscaba is they have no party to negotiate with!

So you say. You might turn out to be right for once, we'll see. Maybe it will be a moot point.

 

[Pi brat]

When the APA becomes the bargaining agent it will be the APA's right to submit the list for us airways pilots.

Read the update. Wilson thinks 24-30 months. Lots of time for the NMB to rule.

Usapa will not exist so they will not have the right to do anything.

So the APA will take the data USAPA gave it and change it? The process will start way before that as I pointed out to you before, and you didn't reply. Let's go back to that, me giving you facts and you not replying.

 

[N924PS]

So you say. You might turn out to be right for once, we'll see. Maybe it will be a moot point.

You didn't answer my question. Who submitted your name back in '85 or '86. Did it come from San Diego or Pittsburgh?

Per ALPA merger policy PSA ALPA submitted a certified list to the merger committee. For any of you old PSA'ers the merger committee members were Jim Fitzgerald, Ron Smith, Jim McCollum, Charlie Beauchesne, Dave Stillings, and Bill Lebeda.

In fact I found an ALPA letter in an old file dated January 6, 1987 stating my seniority number as 389 with a status of DC-9 F/O (we had 31 Super 80's and 4 DC-9-30's).

 

[Walmartgreeter]

The easiest and most legal way for APA and the company to have the "East Problem" go away is to simply insist on the Nicolau Award as the starting point for negotiations/arbitration.

APA can "insist" on whatever they want, but it will only be concerning THEIR own list. The Company will insist nothing. Read the MOU, they are neutral.

But of course APA and Parker can go to the BK judge, Horton, the AMR employees, and the UCC and say "Never mind. Give Parker and Kirby 6 months to negotiate a JNC with the East and West that includes the NIC, and have it voted on and approved. We will get back to you and the stockholders on our plan for creating the largest airline in the world, and finally paying you all.”

Really? The NIC is not part of a completed JNC process. It cannot be "imposed."

Guess you did not learn too much in your one day of USAPA membership. Nice record going out the door.

Greeter

 

[PullUp]

I don't know. I guess the East pilots thought they had the right to change unions to subvert a binding arbitration.

Perhaps the company will feel they have the right and more importantly, a legal obligation to use a list they accepted and paid for.

One thing for sure, the New American Airlines seniority list will not be DOH, and my name won't appear on it.

Wrong. the company did not pay for that list. To use that list requires a joint contract integrating east and west workforces. Sorry, no $$, no integration. The company chose the separate ops path as it saved them the max amount of $$.
The company does not submit the lists, they are 'neutral' in this process.
Try again.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

When the APA becomes the bargaining agent it will be the APA's right to submit the list for us airways pilots.

Read the update. Wilson thinks 24-30 months. Lots of time for the NMB to rule.

Usapa will not exist so they will not have the right to do anything.

If you base your logic on what the MOU and associated timeline actually says, you will find it is not always best to assume everything you read on the internet is true. Ted Reed has a blog. Do you bow to his logic? (I don't) But then again, Roland Wilder had a blog years ago that talked about "danger" to the West position. Guess I am a sucker too, I bought his logic.

We are two peas in a pod! (But still on separate seniority lists!)

Greeter

 

[N924PS]

APA can "insist" on whatever they want, but it will only be concerning THEIR own list. The Company will insist nothing. Read the MOU, they are neutral.

But of course APA and Parker can go to the BK judge, Horton, the AMR employees, and the UCC and say "Never mind. Give Parker and Kirby 6 months to negotiate a JNC with the East and West that includes the NIC, and have it voted on and approved. We will get back to you and the stockholders on our plan for creating the largest airline in the world, and finally paying you all."

Really? The NIC is not part of a completed JNC process. It cannot be "imposed."

Guess you did not learn too much in your one day of USAPA membership. Nice record going out the door.

Greeter

You have me confused with JS, I believe. I have been a dues paying member of USAPA since day one. I have voted on every issue and election and remain a member in good standing.