US Pilots Labor Discussion

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MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
Gary has sent this letter without vetting it with the BPR. He has garnered little east support from the BPR and can only muster a majority as long as he gets the west to vote with him by promising to be nicer to them and place a bunch of them in committee positions. What else has been promised we don't know. They have to be laughing at their "get to know our new attorneys that are suing USAPA" party in PHX this week. No wonder those west pilots support Gary. Who wouldn't want Gary for an adversary?

So, how is this new and improved relationship going with Parker? What's next? Offer to pay for the merger with more give backs from us? Just think, we will merge, the American Pilots will get to keep most of what they might lose, Parker and Company will make multi-millions and the pilots here will pay for it all. Why not? It worked before!

Than we have Jamie Weidner who says vote for him because he will vote with Gary and the West. We are about to run over by a big freight train and the people driving the train just got a letter from a very weak and ineffective union president and Jamie wants you to know he is with him. Great. I feel confident, don't you? (more sarcasm).

This letter sent chills up my spine. It's rare when you can clearly see how incompetent someone is. That is the problem. The letter is amateurish and embarrassing. Did anyone read this before they sent it out? Did an attorney read this? If he did, he should be fired.

To read Gary and Jamie's letters to the pilots, everything is going perfectly. The truth is, this letter proves just the opposite. The reason the Gary is not asking for the full BPR to support him is that he can negotiate behind their backs, place people to negotiate for us without getting a vote by the BPR and in a sense, run the show behind the scenes without letting the pilots know what is really going on. Well, what is really going on is that Parker is laughing at the incompetence we see in this letter. No wonder he doesn't take us seriously and all this is going on behind our backs.

If Gary had enough BPR reps that are not rubber stamping Gary, he would be forced to go to the entire BPR to get their support. We would have more transparency and perhaps letters like this would never have been written. I can't imagine anyone voting to send this out. If they did, I'd ask for a recall.
Until I saw this letter, I was under the impression that we were 3 entities working towards a solution. Now I see there are two entities working together and the third does what it did in the past under ALPA. Whine, complain, work behind the scenes and in the end, by incompetence, screw the pilots here.

One thing is perfectly clear to me. We may be stuck with Gary, but we need someone representing us on the BPR that is smart enough to see when we are threatened and strong enough to do something about it. A rubber stamp that supports a letter like this just contributes to a disaster.

Paul Music will vote with Gary when Gary needs his vote to further the pilots demands. But Paul is also smart and strong enough to never allow a letter like this to be written to Parker and Baker.

We just showed our ass with this letter and you were never supposed to see this letter. Now that you have, do you also have that feeling that something is very wrong but you're not sure what it is. In my flying career, I have had instances when everything appeared right, but something inside screamed it wasn't. That sixth sense we all get through experience. That sixth sense has saved my life more than once. I'm sure you have had the same experiences. My senses are screaming right now.

Either Jamie Weidner or Paul Music will be the deciding factor in any future BPR votes. We have a choice. More letters like this under Jamie or an adult in the room under Paul that will stop this kind of letter being written. Please vote for Paul Music. We need someone in there that can still save Gary from himself! Wake up PHL pilots make sure you , listen to the "MUSIC"! No I did not vote for GARY, or LOA93! MM!
Click to expand...
MM, this has got to be the most horrid drivel I've read from another east pilot since I joined these boards. Gary inherited what we can, in very nice terms, call a mess. Mike Cleary left this union with hundreds of grievances pending, no contract, enjoined, and parked. And he completely alienated and unified the west pilot group so that we come into this merger with no say or involvement. And for you to talk down on Gary with the track record Cleary had is ludicrous!

I have spoken with Gary about the accuracy of the future events regarding this merger ascwritten by the Phoenix reps and he told me they "weren't far off." Gary's letter is indicative of our situation as left by Mike Cleary and, as Piedmont stated, having Paul elected will do nothing to change our lack of status with this merger. Yes, we are tied to the tracks. The APA is driving the train and the west pilots are off to the side watching us squirm in our ropes. We once again have done it to ourselves. I don't see any way around the Niclau and the three way talk is nonsense. Another distraction away from all of our failures. We have yet to do one thing correctly and to our benefit. The company and west pilots always seem to have a counter move to everything we do. Our days are numbered.
 
Move2CLT said:
Actually it doesn't.

It was confirmed by Parker when he briefed USAPA that furlough protection extends to both sides, not just APA.
Click to expand...

Read the term sheets, page 8. What Parker says isn't always what he means - you know - he once said that he accepted the Nicolau list, until he later said he didn't (actually).
 
MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
Gary has sent this letter without vetting it with the BPR. He has garnered little east support from the BPR and can only muster a majority as long as he gets the west to vote with him by promising to be nicer to them and place a bunch of them in committee positions. What else has been promised we don't know. They have to be laughing at their "get to know our new attorneys that are suing USAPA" party in PHX this week. No wonder those west pilots support Gary. Who wouldn't want Gary for an adversary?

So, how is this new and improved relationship going with Parker? What's next? Offer to pay for the merger with more give backs from us? Just think, we will merge, the American Pilots will get to keep most of what they might lose, Parker and Company will make multi-millions and the pilots here will pay for it all. Why not? It worked before!

Than we have Jamie Weidner who says vote for him because he will vote with Gary and the West. We are about to run over by a big freight train and the people driving the train just got a letter from a very weak and ineffective union president and Jamie wants you to know he is with him. Great. I feel confident, don't you? (more sarcasm).

This letter sent chills up my spine. It's rare when you can clearly see how incompetent someone is. That is the problem. The letter is amateurish and embarrassing. Did anyone read this before they sent it out? Did an attorney read this? If he did, he should be fired.

To read Gary and Jamie's letters to the pilots, everything is going perfectly. The truth is, this letter proves just the opposite. The reason the Gary is not asking for the full BPR to support him is that he can negotiate behind their backs, place people to negotiate for us without getting a vote by the BPR and in a sense, run the show behind the scenes without letting the pilots know what is really going on. Well, what is really going on is that Parker is laughing at the incompetence we see in this letter. No wonder he doesn't take us seriously and all this is going on behind our backs.

If Gary had enough BPR reps that are not rubber stamping Gary, he would be forced to go to the entire BPR to get their support. We would have more transparency and perhaps letters like this would never have been written. I can't imagine anyone voting to send this out. If they did, I'd ask for a recall.
Until I saw this letter, I was under the impression that we were 3 entities working towards a solution. Now I see there are two entities working together and the third does what it did in the past under ALPA. Whine, complain, work behind the scenes and in the end, by incompetence, screw the pilots here.

One thing is perfectly clear to me. We may be stuck with Gary, but we need someone representing us on the BPR that is smart enough to see when we are threatened and strong enough to do something about it. A rubber stamp that supports a letter like this just contributes to a disaster.

Paul Music will vote with Gary when Gary needs his vote to further the pilots demands. But Paul is also smart and strong enough to never allow a letter like this to be written to Parker and Baker.

We just showed our ass with this letter and you were never supposed to see this letter. Now that you have, do you also have that feeling that something is very wrong but you're not sure what it is. In my flying career, I have had instances when everything appeared right, but something inside screamed it wasn't. That sixth sense we all get through experience. That sixth sense has saved my life more than once. I'm sure you have had the same experiences. My senses are screaming right now.

Either Jamie Weidner or Paul Music will be the deciding factor in any future BPR votes. We have a choice. More letters like this under Jamie or an adult in the room under Paul that will stop this kind of letter being written. Please vote for Paul Music. We need someone in there that can still save Gary from himself! Wake up PHL pilots make sure you , listen to the "MUSIC"! No I did not vote for GARY, or LOA93! MM!
Click to expand...

Holy crap! A coherent post by MM! Who would believe this? That said, you guys can vote for whomever you want to but your "union" is totally irrelevant. Hummell obviously knows this.
 
dca319 said:
MM, this has got to be the most horrid drivel I've read from another east pilot since I joined these boards. Gary inherited what we can, in very nice terms, call a mess. Mike Cleary left this union with hundreds of grievances pending, no contract, enjoined, and parked. And he completely alienated and unified the west pilot group so that we come into this merger with no say or involvement. And for you to to down on Gary with the track record Cleary had is ludicrous!

I have sooken with Gary about the accuracy of the future events regarding this merger and he told me they "weren't far off.". Gary's letter is indicative of our situation as left by Mike Cleary. And as Piedmont stated, having Paul elected will do nothing to change our lack of status with this merger. Yes, we are tied to the tracks. The APA is driving the train and the west pilots are off to the side watching us squirm in our ropes. We once again have done it to ourselves. I don't see any way around the Niclau and the three way talk is nonsense. Another distraction away from all of our failures. We have yet to do one thing correctly and to our benefit. The company and west pilots always seem to have a counter move to everything we do. Our days are numbered.
Click to expand...

This post says it all.
 
Ames said:
Holy crap! A coherent post by MM! Who would believe this? That said, you guys can vote for whomever you want to but your "union" is totally irrelevant. Hummell obviously knows this.
Click to expand...

Don't get your hopes up Ames.

His post was most likely copied from elsewhere, again with no author cited.
 
Took a leave of absence from the board only to return and see the
" I've got mine......screw YOU Eastie minority " and westies jumping in bed together.
You deserve each other........carry on.

FA
 
Piedmont1984 said:
Sure I'll spell it out - since you insist, John Adams. But I was trying to be discreet. That's what I meant and that's what I typed.

Now do YOU feel like a DS (D for Dumb not Dip).
Click to expand...
GUESS AGAIN ! I'LL SPELL IT OUT, aint that guy, BASED IN CLT DS , D for DIP! S for, well you guessed it, and who would pretend to have your intelligence?
 
Well chalk up another court case loser for usapa. I have to give them credit though. They are figuring out that when they file a loser case the quicker they fold, the cheaper it is.

After all of the chest thumping, tuff talk and accusations. Cleary dropped the case against Seham. What is McKee and the fab 5 got to say now that their hero Cleary lead them down the path again?

Why has the more open and transparent union not informed the membership of this event? It happened 10 days ago plenty of time for the real usapa scab (yes his name is on the master list) to get that info to the pilots. Must be the distraction Cleary needed before he slithered out of office is not needed anymore.
 
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