Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[T5towbar]

+1000

That goes for everyone in America's working class...




It's both.



No, but you certainly hold people in charge accountable.



All due respect, but when unions are structured to maximize engagement amongst the members, guys like Nelson don't have a voice. The fact that he gets so much traction w/r/t DL 141 says a lot where you guys are at vs. where you need to be as a group.



This seems like a rationale for giving up and settling for whatever may come...

One of the beauties of elected leadership is the ability to change them out when they're not meeting the needs/wants of the membership.

That's true. It's about the wants and needs of the membership. It hasn't been a lot of communication between the District. Just a lot of dissention; apathy; and negativity since we came into the IAM. The district should have first welcomed the new members from sCO into the union, and tried to work with our issues and concerns. That didn't happen. Of course there was a bitter campaign between the IAM and the IBT, but we felt we had to go union (with the IBT) just because of this merger, and we had a hasty contract. But the issue was the negotiators was going to use the old UA contract as a baseline, not our IBT contract and the non union FTW. That didn't happen. (BTW: what is "interest based negotiations?") Then you have Upstairs (sCO Passenger Services) who aren't even fully dues paying members yet who are in limbo. The're concerns and issues aren't even met. And the District should have known this because you have four distinct groups working against each other: IAM members from sUA who want what was taken from them; a loyal die hard group of IBT supporters from our side who felt and knew that the IAM would not fight for our issues, ie: Cargo. And there are card drives going on right now.; Anti unionists who want no part of any union, and liked things the way they were (the dues structure doesn't help either. That's just my own opinion); and the apathetic who just want to do their jobs and have a distaste for all of the politics, and would not vote if their life depended on it. IMHO, these forces have to have to be dealt with in some sort of fashion. You can't blame Tim for pointing these things out. This TA was not going to pass because of people felt things would be worse later on down the line in 2016. What makes you think that the IAM could fight in 2016?

Bottom line is the District should have known about this and tried to work with all parties, instead of just surveys that they did not heed. We want SCOPE. We want MEDICAL. We want sUA to get some form or all of their retro which is due. (and sCO a signing bonus)

There has to be a change in this District.

 

[roabilly]

@Kev3188--First… look in the mirror-- that’s who should be held accountable! I’ve been in the business 35 years, and watched the same bullshit play out over and over again from every Unionized Airline, and workgroup since the 70’s!

Instead of complaining about the leadership… do YOUR part! Get involved, educated, and most importantly stay focused on what you want collectively as group… that’s how you achieve the end result… not whining about the Union Leaders!

More than likely-- I’ll be comfortably retired when the next District Elections take place, so I don’t really have any skin the game... but it will be interesting to watch you guys blame each other and play politics while the Company, Lobbyist, and Politicians take what’s left of your only “real” leverage! So, go ahead… keep dividing yourself, ignoring national and global corporate lobbying practices. You will all be working for minimum wage with no benefits, and no representation!

But just think… you can ALL take your frustrations out on the Union you used to have in this very forum! Meanwhile, Nelson and the Company will be fueling the fire like insatiable pyromaniacs, while laughing all the way to the bank!

 

[T5towbar]

@Kev3188--First… look in the mirror-- that’s who should be held accountable! I’ve been in the business 35 years, and watched the same bullshit play out over and over again from every Unionized Airline, and workgroup since the 70’s!

Instead of complaining about the leadership… do YOUR part! Get involved, educated, and most importantly stay focused on what you want collectively as group… that’s how you achieve the end result… not whining about the Union Leaders!

More than likely-- I’ll be comfortably retired when the next District Elections take place, so I don’t really have any skin the game... but it will be interesting to watch you guys blame each other and play politics while the Company, Lobbyist, and Politicians take what’s left of your only “real” leverage! So, go ahead… keep dividing yourself, ignoring national and global corporate lobbying practices. You will all be working for minimum wage with no benefits, and no representation!

But just think… you can ALL take your frustrations out on the Union you used to have in this very forum! Meanwhile, Nelson and the Company will be fueling the fire like insatiable pyromaniacs, while laughing all the way to the bank!

I didn't know if you are referring to Kev or myself. But I am involved the best way possible. I try to stay informed and let the younger members know about what's going on, since that affects them moreso than I. I haven't been a member of this District as long as yourself, being it us a long time to become Union (I am a member of another union on my second job) but I am an unionist at heart, and do cares what happens. Like in a previous post I wrote, it is all political, just like union business. We know the company wants to divide us and break us. And make our jobs revolving door, no benefits. I see it every day on the ramp and thank God it isn't us. But how do you gain some sort of solidarity amongst the entire workgroup, when you have competing interests? "The Fighting Machinists" haven't shown any fight in them at all. So guess what..... you have your IBT supporters and anti unionists standing in the wings. I want to support this union and make sure it succeed, I really do. But give me a reason why? Give the members a reason why to rally around this District. I think that once our members can be eligible to become District officers, you will see some new blood infused, since we have some great Unionists on the sCO side who are willing to fight. The failing of this TA could be a start though.

 

[roabilly]

I didn't know if you are referring to Kev or myself. But I am involved the best way possible. I try to stay informed and let the younger members know about what's going on, since that affects them moreso than I. I haven't been a member of this District as long as yourself, being it us a long time to become Union (I am a member of another union on my second job) but I am an unionist at heart, and do cares what happens. Like in a previous post I wrote, it is all political, just like union business. We know the company wants to divide us and break us. And make our jobs revolving door, no benefits. I see it every day on the ramp and thank God it isn't us. But how do you gain some sort of solidarity amongst the entire workgroup, when you have competing interests? "The Fighting Machinists" haven't shown any fight in them at all. So guess what..... you have your IBT supporters and anti unionists standing in the wings. I want to support this union and make sure it succeed, I really do. But give me a reason why? Give the members a reason why to rally around this District. I think that once our members can be eligible to become District officers, you will see some new blood infused, since we have some great Unionists on the sCO side who are willing to fight. The failing of this TA could be a start though.

You still don't get it... it's not "rallying" behind the Distric or anything else... you should be rallying behind yourself, and your co-workers!

I've said this over and over... YOU are the one negotiating YOUR contract... vote NO send them back to the table if need be. How else do you think the Leaders you hate can re-enter negotiations whith any leverage? Do you think the Company pays more attention to them after a resounding NO vote? Hell YES!

 

[T5towbar]

You still don't get it... it's not "rallying" behind the Distric or anything else... you should be rallying behind yourself, and your co-workers!

I've said this over and over... YOU are the one negotiating YOUR contract... vote NO send them back to the table if need be. How else do you think the Leaders you hate can re-enter negotiations whith any leverage? Do you think the Company pays more attention to them after a resounding NO vote? Hell YES!

......And that's what we did. And will continue to do so until they get it right!

 

[Tim Nelson]

@Kev3188--First… look in the mirror-- that’s who should be held accountable! I’ve been in the business 35 years, and watched the same bullshit play out over and over again from every Unionized Airline, and workgroup since the 70’s!

Instead of complaining about the leadership… do YOUR part! Get involved, educated, and most importantly stay focused on what you want collectively as group… that’s how you achieve the end result… not whining about the Union Leaders!

More than likely-- I’ll be comfortably retired when the next District Elections take place, so I don’t really have any skin the game... but it will be interesting to watch you guys blame each other and play politics while the Company, Lobbyist, and Politicians take what’s left of your only “real” leverage! So, go ahead… keep dividing yourself, ignoring national and global corporate lobbying practices. You will all be working for minimum wage with no benefits, and no representation!

But just think… you can ALL take your frustrations out on the Union you used to have in this very forum! Meanwhile, Nelson and the Company will be fueling the fire like insatiable pyromaniacs, while laughing all the way to the bank!

Roabilly, even when you are retired you may still get your chance to vote for Delaney! Yes, I fueled the fire but for a No vote. Your boys stood with the company and fueled the fire for management. And yes, I fueled the fire over the last year with words of warning about these clowns. Now some things have come to pass but there is still a 'remnant' that doesn't want to believe how anti labor Delaney has been revealed to be. regards,

I didn't know if you are referring to Kev or myself. But I am involved the best way possible. I try to stay informed and let the younger members know about what's going on, since that affects them moreso than I. I haven't been a member of this District as long as yourself, being it us a long time to become Union (I am a member of another union on my second job) but I am an unionist at heart, and do cares what happens. Like in a previous post I wrote, it is all political, just like union business. We know the company wants to divide us and break us. And make our jobs revolving door, no benefits. I see it every day on the ramp and thank God it isn't us. But how do you gain some sort of solidarity amongst the entire workgroup, when you have competing interests? "The Fighting Machinists" haven't shown any fight in them at all. So guess what..... you have your IBT supporters and anti unionists standing in the wings. I want to support this union and make sure it succeed, I really do. But give me a reason why? Give the members a reason why to rally around this District. I think that once our members can be eligible to become District officers, you will see some new blood infused, since we have some great Unionists on the sCO side who are willing to fight. The failing of this TA could be a start though.

T5, EWR was a big No for ramp and upstairs. Us the members, continue to build solidarity within the ranks to fight against the co/op team of the union leadership/management. The leadership stopped the strike vote count because it didn't want to announce a strike authorization from the members that would piss off management. The actual excuse was that the strike vote wouldn't have mattered. They did count some strike vote ballots and it was a good vote. 85% is fairly good for a new group. IMO, the members had a right to know about the TA numbers and the strike vote. Especially since the leadership put out official flyers saying the solidarity is terrible. regards,

 

[cltrat]

Nelson, you must really hate DL... this is the second time you've tried this Bluto Bullshit!

so let me get this straight, so Nelson is supposed to be Bluto also?

Jesus is there anyone that Nelson isn't suppose to be?
let's see he is
Tim Nelson
IAM Informer
Bluto
and maybe he is ograc, or maybe Chock Jockey or perhaps he is robbedagain or maybe Kev
oh yeah I forgot he's Satan too

does anyone think this Nelson obsession is a bit creepy and paranoid?

 

[737823]

"Worked extremely hard and are extremely proud"..."Exceptional job"..."It is truly monumental what you have accomplsihed" LMFAO.

Rich Delaney, Sito Pantoja, Ira Levy, DL 141, etc should be ashamed of themselves now that the membership has resoundingly defeated this POS TA. There is nothing monumental about this, except that it prolongs the extended concessions achieved through bankruptcy and decimates job protection for all but a handful of stations. Seriously, the IAM must have collaborated with UA management to ensure the stations get outsourced to ZW so they can still collect dues like they did before the merger when MIA & MHT were transitioned to UAX. It is obvious that the goal of the negotiating team was to hastily negotiate a TA so they could begin collecting dues from the pm-CO workforce, each at ~13,000 CO workers organized and $55 dues/month, the IAM is missing out on over $700,000 each month there isn't an agreement.

Surprised they haven't removed this spin from Youtube yet: https://www.youtube....h?v=Z4HP-xwBmxc

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

"Worked extremely hard and are extremely proud"..."Exceptional job"..."It is truly monumental what you have accomplsihed" LMFAO.

Rich Delaney, Sito Pantoja, Ira Levy, DL 141, etc should be ashamed of themselves now that the membership has resoundingly defeated this POS TA. There is nothing monumental about this, except that it prolongs the extended concessions achieved through bankruptcy and decimates job protection for all but a handful of stations. Seriously, the IAM must have collaborated with UA management to ensure the stations get outsourced to ZW so they can still collect dues like they did before the merger when MIA & MHT were transitioned to UAX. It is obvious that the goal of the negotiating team was to hastily negotiate a TA so they could begin collecting dues from the pm-CO workforce, each at ~13,000 CO workers organized and $55 dues/month, the IAM is missing out on over $700,000 each month there isn't an agreement.

Surprised they haven't removed this spin from Youtube yet: https://www.youtube....h?v=Z4HP-xwBmxc

Josh

Josh, there are some who have an agenda that keeps them from fighting against the otherwise obvious anti labor ta that the union leaders tried to sell. It shuts them up and they are forced to have to attack a law or whoever is fighting for justice. Gosh forbid the union bosses are as big as pricks as their actions are against the members. What isn't surprising is that we still have some among us who refuse to acknowledge that this circus and medicine show is coming to US AIRWAYS also. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

I believe the negotiation team, if it's worth anything, needs to put pressure on Delaney. The US AIRWAYS fleet has tremendous leverage but the negotiation team has used none of it. Since management walks out on Delaney, why can't our negotiation team put some things in order or walk out on the guy? It isn't profane if the guy continues to be in management's corner. I would suggest instead of coming back from negotiations with fingers up butts saying how management doesn't respect things, that the negotiation team put forth some rather basic things that should have already been taken care of. 1. be a voice with action to make sure IAM 141 and IAM 142 are together. That could have meant that IAM 141 ask for a impass also. Why not? Management already is not showing up. I think we are all tired of the silly updates that talk about 'much progress' but then have the kool aid pics. Yaaaawwwwnnnnn. Ask for an impass. Demand a IAM informational picket with both districts. That would be a good prestart. But for anyone to suggest that something fair can be gained by entering a room without first asking for any involvement from the membership is truly intellectually dishonest. regards,

 

[737823]

Josh, there are some who have an agenda that keeps them from fighting against the otherwise obvious anti labor ta that the union leaders tried to sell. It shuts them up and they are forced to have to attack a law or whoever is fighting for justice. Gosh forbid the union bosses are as big as pricks as their actions are against the members. What isn't surprising is that we still have some among us who refuse to acknowledge that this circus and medicine show is coming to US AIRWAYS also. regards,

Very true. I read a few pages back that Levy and other DL 141 staff were yelling at members doing the roadshow when they asked questions is that true? I thought unionism is about transparency, democracy, and accountability of leadership.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

@Kev3188--First… look in the mirror-- that’s who should be held accountable!...

Instead of complaining about the leadership… do YOUR part! Get involved, educated, and most importantly stay focused on what you want collectively as group… that’s how you achieve the end result… not whining about the Union Leaders!

Did all that and more, thanks. Held several elected positions as well. Advocating for change isn't "whining," it's what union members SHOULD do when their elected leaders are not performing satisfactorily.

We've both been on this board a while, and I gotta say I'm truly surprised to see you take such a tone of resignation. It's *that* sense of hopelessness that is helping to keep labor down. Capital does a good enough job on their own; they don't need labor to do their work for 'em...

You still don't get it... it's not "rallying" behind the Distric or anything else... you should be rallying behind yourself, and your co-workers!

I've said this over and over... YOU are the one negotiating YOUR contract... vote NO send them back to the table if need be. How else do you think the Leaders you hate can re-enter negotiations whith any leverage? Do you think the Company pays more attention to them after a resounding NO vote? Hell YES!

All well and good. Now let's hope that Delaney et al don't F up the "interest based" bargaining session to come. They already knew what the top 3 issues were, and we saw how bad they botched that. Seems to me there's nowhere to go but up, but who knows?

so let me get this straight, so Nelson is supposed to be Bluto also?

Jesus is there anyone that Nelson isn't suppose to be?
let's see he is
Tim Nelson
IAM Informer
Bluto
and maybe he is ograc, or maybe Chock Jockey or perhaps he is robbedagain or maybe Kev
oh yeah I forgot he's Satan too

does anyone think this Nelson obsession is a bit creepy and paranoid?

Yes.

Love him or hate him, he's clearly struck a nerve with some in 141...

 

[Tim Nelson]

Very true. I read a few pages back that Levy and other DL 141 staff were yelling at members doing the roadshow when they asked questions is that true? I thought unionism is about transparency, democracy, and accountability of leadership.

Josh

Josh, it is a shame because I believe working people need representation but it makes things very hard to organize when union leaders do not care about labor at all and sign the first thing management throws at them. I imagine that the TWU has copied the UA TA and will have some fun with it only having scope for 7 stations and getting significant less pay with a profitable airline when the TWU got more pay while in bankruptcy. regards,

 

[IAM Informer]

roabilly,
glad to see your back since you seem to be educated on the leadership maybe you can step up and give us something to rally behind I pose the same question to you can you provide us with 2 positive improvements RD has done in his 5 years of office on any property

i believe you said lets give him a chance well how about it give us some hope

 

[roabilly]

so let me get this straight, so Nelson is supposed to be Bluto also?

Jesus is there anyone that Nelson isn't suppose to be?
let's see he is
Tim Nelson
IAM Informer
Bluto
and maybe he is ograc, or maybe Chock Jockey or perhaps he is robbedagain or maybe Kev
oh yeah I forgot he's Satan too

does anyone think this Nelson obsession is a bit creepy and paranoid?

No... what's "creepy" is a bunch of idiots having online circle jerks in full public view, while advocating constant upheavel that is counter productive to solidarity!