Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

In fact, lets just state the obvious based on Wilson's statement:



US Airways equities:

637 mil. 2012 profit
Superior management team (according to APA)
ACTUAL Airbus deliveries (not new orders made in BK like AMR)
Strong hubs in CLT and PHL
No REAL furloughs (west yes, but they could have come east)
High attrition due to retirements

AMR equities:

BANKRUPTCY!
Poor management
1,500 REAL furloughs
10 years of losses
Numerous market pullbacks

And that's the short list....in OUR FAVOR.

So who has the better argument in arbitration based on Wilson's statement?

Any AMR pilots want to chime in?

You are a real ass for starting this. We have enough problems with our prior merger, why come here and stir the pot on the new one? At least give our NAC and Merger Committees a chance to do things differently. Our arguments with APA will be made at the table, all of them. We don't need your bile here when you have nothing to do with that process. You coming here with this trash talk, and Leo waving the "here we come to sue you all" banner. Not much different.

Greeter

 

[end_of_alpa]

You are a real ass for starting this. We have enough problems with our prior merger, why come here and stir the pot on the new one? At least give our NAC and Merger Committees a chance to do things differently. Our arguments with APA will be made at the table, all of them. We don't need your bile here when you have nothing to do with that process. You coming here with this trash talk, and Leo waving the "here we come to sue you all" banner. Not much different.

Greeter

I'm not sure why the anger? For that matter, what exactly do YOU mean for the NAC and Merger to "do things differently". You bet our prior merger did only one thing....set the bar lower for ALL pilots.

Again, I just quoted Wilson. He implies its going to arbitration.

Trash talk? I didn't say it he did.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Jamie-

Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance.

I remember this same thing happening some 8 years ago. The shoe was on the foot and YOU worked for the BK company and had all the furloughs.

You and your ilk whined and complained poor me, poor us, ALPA, ALPA, ALPA.

You've delayed a pay raise for everyone for that 8 years. I hope the AFO'S are thanking the east captains for paying for their upgrades for the last 8 years, money that they could have used for used for retirement.

Let me start the whining now.....USAPA USAPA USAPA!!!

What a JA.

Like you and yours had any better future. We brought two major hubs, you brought desert dust.

What's your point, fat man?

 

[nycbusdriver]

The fake union won't even recognize its DOH promise, the 2004/5 west furloughs don't even get their DOH position on the east list. According to east math they have 8 years of seniority.

What is it boys, DOH only when it suits you?

Personally, I was not aware of that. The west pilots who have taken positions on the east should definitely have come on board with their west DOH intact.

Assuming you are correct, then treating them as new hires is hypocritical on USAPA's part. I will be contacting my reps and Hummel to make my thoughts known.

On another note, regarding Nicolau's Trump Shuttle integration with US Air, IMHO he got it wrong there, too. Nicolau is a "slotting arbitrator" when it came to pilots. NOTHING anyone says or does on the Merger Committees would ever change that. That is why I thought the US Merger Committee was incredibly stupid when they bragged about getting Nicolau for the AW/US mediation/arbitration. The US Committee should have struck him immediately, IMHO.

That being said, Nicolau, being the lazy arbitrator he is, took the lazy way in the Trump merger. Rather than closely examining the list, he simply took the bottom 757/767 captain at the time from the US list and made everyone on the US list at and above him senior to everybody at Trump, since they did not have any 757/767s. On closer examination, this bottom 757/767 captain got his bid WAY out of seniority since being on reserve was not something anyone wished to do. Rather than look at who COULD hold that postion, he just grabbed the number and ran with it. It certainly negatively impacted the Trump pilots, but Nicolau really doesn't give a crap about how things really work for pilots in the industry. He just thinks he knows it all.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Personally, I was not aware of that. The west pilots who have taken positions on the east should definitely have come on board with their west DOH intact.

Assuming you are correct, then treating them as new hires is hypocritical on USAPA's part. I will be contacting my reps and Hummel to make my thoughts known.

Again, there was a grievance on this very thing that USAPA brought on behalf of the West pilots. Unfortunately the WEST pilots failed to bring the necessary legal assistance (their testimony) and the grievance was lost. It wasn't USAPA's fault.

Go to the website and download the grievance yourself. I believe it was TA-5.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Speaking of things that don't matter (line pilots - real or imagined- espousing views of what is fair): in the DEN workout room today I introduced myself to DAL (former NWAL) pilots. They said they "hoped that the new abitrators bent the former US Air pilots over a barrel (like they deserved). Further, they said the former US Airways pilots (let's say - DOH to the DEATH supporters) were the PARIAHS of the commercial aviation industry.

How about that. Pilots from another major airline calling a spade - a spade.

Yeah. Ok.

And I have a good friend of many years who was a high profile MEC committee chairman at NWA who thinks the Nicolau award was an embarrassment and thinks dumping ALPA was a good choice.

So...everyone here can probably go one-for-one on anecdotal stories like this.

They are meaningless.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yeah. Ok.

And I have a good friend of many years who was a high profile MEC committee chairman at NWA who thinks the Nicolau award was an embarrassment and thinks dumping ALPA was a good choice.

So...everyone here can probably go one-for-one on anecdotal stories like this.

They are meaningless.

How true.

 

[nycbusdriver]

SYIC

YAWN

 

[nycbusdriver]

No Judge in the land is going to give you an injunction to KEEP you from getting a pay raise, keep you from working for the largest airline in the world, put the merger on hold and 100K employees in limbo, and somehow agree that the M/B process is not fair even though you voted for it.

Oh, I dunno. Wake might after a round of golf with some AOL weenies.

 

[nycbusdriver]

When the APA becomes the bargaining agent it will be the APA's right to submit the list for us airways pilots.

Read the update. Wilson thinks 24-30 months. Lots of time for the NMB to rule.

Usapa will not exist so they will not have the right to do anything.

USAPA will exist until the MB process is completed. That means, according to Wilson, 24-30 months.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Again, there was a grievance on this very thing that USAPA brought on behalf of the West pilots. Unfortunately the WEST pilots failed to bring the necessary legal assistance (their testimony) and the grievance was lost. It wasn't USAPA's fault.

Go to the website and download the grievance yourself. I believe it was TA-5.

Thanks for that. Saved me an embarrassing email.

You can lead a horse to water....

 

[end_of_alpa]

You are a real ass for starting this. We have enough problems with our prior merger, why come here and stir the pot on the new one? At least give our NAC and Merger Committees a chance to do things differently. Our arguments with APA will be made at the table, all of them. We don't need your bile here when you have nothing to do with that process. You coming here with this trash talk, and Leo waving the "here we come to sue you all" banner. Not much different.

Greeter

What? No answer? Typical.

 

[doh nogo]

In fact, lets just state the obvious based on Wilson's statement:

US Airways equities:

637 mil. 2012 profit
Superior management team (according to APA)
ACTUAL Airbus deliveries (not new orders made in BK like AMR)
Strong hubs in CLT and PHL
No REAL furloughs (west yes, but they could have come east)
High attrition due to retirements

AMR equities:

BANKRUPTCY!
Poor management
1,500 REAL furloughs
10 years of losses
Numerous market pullbacks

And that's the short list....in OUR FAVOR.

So who has the better argument in arbitration based on Wilson's statement?

Any AMR pilots want to chime in?

When it comes to SLI, let's not forget which company is in BANKRUPTCY. (tic)

Oh... wait... I just had a flashback!!!!

America West equities:

Profitable in the worst downturn
Superior management team
Strong hubs evenwith competition from SWA
No furloughs

USAirways equities:

BANKRUPTCY!
Poor management
1,700 REAL furloughs
10 years of losses
Numerous market pullbacks

And that was the short list....in OUR FAVOR.

So who has the better argument in arbitration?

The hypocrisy and situational ethics of the East is a bottomless pit.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I'm not sure why the anger? For that matter, what exactly do YOU mean for the NAC and Merger to "do things differently". You bet our prior merger did only one thing....set the bar lower for ALL pilots.

Again, I just quoted Wilson. He implies its going to arbitration.

Trash talk? I didn't say it he did.

So, Walmartgreeter.

ANSWER THE QUESTION!

What are they going to do differently? Or is that secretly?

BTW, I've been on this board at lot longer than you have. I haven't "flame baited" just stated the facts and the obvious.

 

[end_of_alpa]

When it comes to SLI, let's not forget which company is in BANKRUPTCY. (tic)

Oh... wait... I just had a flashback!!!!

America West equities:

Profitable in the worst downturn
Superior management team
Strong hubs evenwith competition from SWA
No furloughs

USAirways equities:

BANKRUPTCY!
Poor management
1,700 REAL furloughs
10 years of losses
Numerous market pullbacks

And that was the short list....in OUR FAVOR.

So who has the better argument in arbitration?

The hypocrisy and situational ethics of the East is a bottomless pit.

Not according to...wait for it: Parker and, OH, the 10-K I might add.

Without us West wouldn't be here. FACT.