Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[PullUp]

And?

Your comment was.



I asked a very simple question where does the MOU say two lists? You made the statement. I asked the question. You have not answered my question put simply quoted a paragraph that does not back up your statement.

The word "lists" is not a number. Why is it so hard to you guys to answer even simple questions? Does the MOU say two lists? Yes or no?

Answer this: Are you an imbecile?

 

[cleardirect]

Speaking with memebers of the APA yesterday at the Federal Courthouse in DC, asked them about the NIC, there reply it was will not be happening, sorry.

Sure Mr. Credibility I am sure there were loads of APA members at the hearing. And all of them agreed with you. they probably all agreed that the list would be DOH too right.

However I know that it is up to the APA that the Nicolau is not happening. Unless the APA like usapa thinks that the larger group can dictate to the smaller group. If that is the case you east pilots had better hold on to your butts.

BTW where is the update from usapa about how you are kicking government butt and will soon be getting your full pension back?

 

[nevergiveup]

And?

Your comment was.



I asked a very simple question where does the MOU say two lists? You made the statement. I asked the question. You have not answered my question put simply quoted a paragraph that does not back up your statement.

The word "lists" is not a number. Why is it so hard to you guys to answer even simple questions? Does the MOU say two lists? Yes or no?

Is this your time of the month? "lists," in the MOU is used in plural, meaning two or more.

 

[PullUp]

Is this your time of the month? "lists," in the MOU is used in plural, meaning two or more.

Wasting your time. You could tell him the sky is blue and he'd argue forever that it was not.
I don't think he understands english very well.
C- student, most probably.
Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

Okay, well then we can at least agree that the MOU definitely excludes a number as well and that number is one. Using a little more in the way of deductive reasoning, we can assume that the word lists does not refer to more than two LCC lists, as in three or four. When you finally work your way through it all, there aren't many reasonable options left - so I'm going with two.

If you are correct usapa can't propose a single DOH list can they?

Why make the assumption that it is not more than 3? Remember the term "third list"?

If usapa presents just 2 lists how do they ensure that the west pilots are senior to the new hires if they are put on the east list? DOH is not a requirement or assured. What if the arbitrator says he will match the bottom pilot from three list? How did usapa represent thos west pilots fairly?

 

[cleardirect]

Is this your time of the month? "lists," in the MOU is used in plural, meaning two or more.

Making progress. Yes two or more.

A statement was make that the MOU said two. I asked where in the MOU does it say two.

It might be "a merger of two companies, not three" if you're talking "operating" certificates, but the "rumors" about a merger of the AWA and AAA pilots via a JCBA and a "merged" SLI are way overblown! I've heard a lot about that may be happening some day, but as of the May 2013 permanent bid, I don't see any indication that it ever has or even will at this point, what with the recently "ratified" MOU with AMR. According to this recent MOU, there will be two "lists" from LCC and one list from AMR being integrated.


seajay

It does not.

Damn you guys make such easy things so difficult.

 

[luvthe9]

Sure Mr. Credibility I am sure there were loads of APA members at the hearing. And all of them agreed with you. they probably all agreed that the list would be DOH too right.

However I know that it is up to the APA that the Nicolau is not happening. Unless the APA like usapa thinks that the larger group can dictate to the smaller group. If that is the case you east pilots had better hold on to your butts.

BTW where is the update from usapa about how you are kicking government butt and will soon be getting your full pension back?

Did I say loads, no son there were 2,and it's agreed with ALL of us, all the updates are out and will be published daily along with the transcripts which are available from yesterday, sorry NIC long gone but keep sending Marty your money we know you are in debt big time with his firm. If I were PHX based I would be looking to downsize my house or sell now.

 

[nevergiveup]

Making progress. Yes two or more.

A statement was make that the MOU said two. I asked where in the MOU does it say two.



It does not.

Damn you guys make such easy things so difficult.

"A statement was make that the MOU said two." I think I am starting to understand your post. Perhaps the one that made the statement about the number of lists being two was in error.

 

[PullUp]

Remember the term "third list"?

A ruling on a grievance about the 'third list' basically abolished that concept. New hires were determined to be either on the east or west list, not a 'third list'. Another case of what is in black and white not meaning what it says - according to some adjudicator supported by mumbo jumbo concocted by people testifying as to the 'intent' of the meaning of the word.
Sorry, I digress. But it was determined that there are only two lists currently in effect at USAirways.
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

So, to briefly recap for clear's sake:
1. the MOU says "lists".
2. We agree that this does not mean 'one', n'est pas?
3. A grievance ruling on the 'third' list determined that there are only two lists, east and west, and no third list exists.

So, what is your final answer, Clear?
Multiple choice:
a. one
b. two
c. three
d. nic

hint: when in doubt, 'b' is usually the correct answer.

Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

Critical reading skills are essential in this day and age. For those of you having difficulty reading and comprehending the MOU or the AA green book, a great way to conquer this disability is through education.
Here's a link: http://huntingtonhelps.com/page/academic-skills-reading/

 

[cleardirect]

So, to briefly recap for clear's sake:
1. the MOU says "lists".
2. We agree that this does not mean 'one', n'est pas?
3. A grievance ruling on the 'third' list determined that there are only two lists, east and west, and no third list exists.

So, what is your final answer, Clear?
Multiple choice:
a. one
b. two
c. three
d. nic

hint: when in doubt, 'b' is usually the correct answer.

Cheers.

Did the third list just go away or did the arbitrator determine that the third list could not be used until a joint contract and the new hires would be placed below all east and west pilots?

There is a difference.

The conclusion, therefore, is that the “third list” was intended to serve a more narrow, albeit profoundly important, purpose, of protecting pre-merger pilots by ensuring new hires would be places below all other pilots at the time the integrated seniority list is implemented.

usapa still had the duty and responsibility to ENSURE that the new hires go below pre-merger pilots.

If usapa tries and use two list there is not way to ensure that new hires will be below pre-merger pilots.

There are only two ways to ensure that. Using the Nicolau list or three list.

T/A-9 does not kill the concept of a third list. It confirms it at integration. Just like the Nicolau list.

 

[cleardirect]

A ruling on a grievance about the 'third list' basically abolished that concept. New hires were determined to be either on the east or west list, not a 'third list'. Another case of what is in black and white not meaning what it says - according to some adjudicator supported by mumbo jumbo concocted by people testifying as to the 'intent' of the meaning of the word.
Sorry, I digress. But it was determined that there are only two lists currently in effect at USAirways.
Cheers.

Really?

The conclusion, therefore, is that the “third list” was intended to serve a more narrow, albeit profoundly important, purpose, of protecting pre-merger pilots by ensuring new hires would be places below all other pilots at the time the integrated seniority list is implemented.

What part of that statement would you say "abolished that concept"?

 

[PullUp]

Considering that the MOU, on the effective date, kills all previous agreements and puts LCC pilots on the MTA/Green Book, I'd say that the 'third' list can never materialize due to the fact that an integrated seniority list was never implemented at LCC.
Should have voted no, guys.
Cheers.

 

[Portly Dorman]

So you selling in PHX? Maybe Move2CLT? Become a NYCBusdriver?

Did I say loads, no son there were 2,and it's agreed with ALL of us, all the updates are out and will be published daily along with the transcripts which are available from yesterday, sorry NIC long gone but keep sending Marty your money we know you are in debt big time with his firm. If I were PHX based I would be looking to downsize my house or sell now.