Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

The kid is coming unglued. The Nic thing just isn't going anywhere.

Except Federal court where your now ripe problem has to be explained. What is that LUP you were so specifically warned about just A FEW MONTHS AGO again?

 

[Metroyet]

Notice NOBODY expressed any concern about the Nic. Nobody, that is but the lawyers for Leonidas. There is still much gold to mine in the shorts of Leonidas.

That's because the Company set a trap for your fake, idiotic union. As per normal, you jumped straight on it.

 

[Claxon]

Marty and Andy, dust off your bar exam questions regarding debt collections from clients.
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/addington_filings/Motion%20for%20atty%20fees.pdf

 

[Claxon]

Except Federal court where your now ripe problem has to be explained. What is that LUP you were so specifically warned about just A FEW MONTHS AGO again?

Keep writing out your checks, maybe you can qualify for the new NOOBTANIUM badge backer.

 

[mrbreeze]

Marty is quoting Arizona law in a case that has already been dealt with in a negative way by the 9th and Silver......Federal levels.

Sounds like he is pissin' into the wind again. I don't see much power in what he is trying to accomplish.
breeze

 

[Claxon]

Ta ta, have to go back to the very Science Fiction movie I was watching, good night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxaQFQC0MAY

 

[nic4us]

........... The Nic thing just isn't going anywhere.

Is that a Freudian slip, or did you finally realize what is meant by binding arbitration?

You sure hit the nail on the head,the Nic is staying right where it is as the only accepted system seniority list for the pilots of LCC.

Oh, and how is that recall going? You get our man out of office yet?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Now that the West Class is saying their claim on the Nic is ripe, let’s consider the first misstep, when Judge Wake ran up against a competing North Carolina Judge that contradicted his ruling by saying the Empire pilots did NOT have a ripe case. Thus began our EXPEDITED trip to the Ninth and SCOTUS, and their ensuing agreement that there was NO ripeness.

Looks like North Carolina is going trip up the LEO folks once again. Judge Conrad (a FEDERAL JUDGE) has already defined ripeness in Federal Court! BAM! Here is what he had to say (paraphrased):

“Since January 2010, these negotiations have been mediated by the National Mediation Board (NMB). The NMB has authority to determine the pace of negotiations, including where and how often negotiations occur….

….Accordingly, the obligation to make and maintain agreements without interruption to the
carrier's operations is not “a mere statement of policy or exhortation to the parties”; rather, it is an affirmative legal obligation, “enforceable by whatever appropriate means might be developed on a case- by-case basis,” including injunction. Chicago & N.W. Ry. Co. v. United Transp. Union, 402 U.S. 570, 577 (1971).

…..The RLA demands that parties refrain from employing economic self-help from the moment a union is certified until the parties have exhausted the negotiation and mediation process provided for in the RLA. See, e.g., Consol. Rail Corp. v. Ry. Labor Executives' Ass'n, 491 U.S. 299, 302-03 (1989). The prohibition against a union engaging in economic self-help applies not only to strikes but also to any alteration of the status quo that is designed to put economic pressure on the carrier. See Delta, 238 F.3d at 1309. The status quo provisions are “central” to the RLA's design as part of an “integrated, harmonious scheme for preserving the status quo from the beginning of a major dispute through the final 30- day ‘cooling-off’ period.

Signed: September 28, 2011”

Read it and weep.

The current Harper ripeness argument is leaving out the exact definitions of the RLA and Judge Conrad’s ruling against USAPA in the status quo case. The agreement in question, or MOU, and the associated ripeness argument is in fact ripe when the “status quo” period ends until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached or all necessary procedures mandated by the RLA have been exhausted.

USAPA WILL STILL BE UNDER JUDGE CONRAD’S INJUNCTION AT THE POR. By definition of Federal Court ordered injunctive relief and the plain language of the RLA the condition is not ripe. It is only ripe when there is a single CBA recognized as binding on the parties by RLA procedure. Only at that point Judge Conrad’s injunction will be lifted.

Greeter

 

[Pi brat]

What is there to talk about? This is the response from the union. the same response from day one.



What is there to talk about? usapa is constitutionally mandated to reject the Nicola award in it's entirety. Are we going to talk about how usapa is going to put the bullet in our head or our chest with DOH?

I have seen USAPA reach out to west pilots, after Hummel was elected. I cannot remember a single time the west has said anything but Nicolau, undiluted. Isn't that true?

 

[Pi brat]

No. They haven't. Because it's the Nic. or nothing. That's been made clear.

Answer to my above question.

 

[Pi brat]

I guess your saw the mistakes but were unable to learn from them.

We have never gotten to DFR II because you guys and the company have kept it in court? How about it, why is your counsel opposed to expedited handling at the 9th this time?

And something to think about. Ken Holmes told me why you guys delayed the last time around.

 

[snapthis]

Ta ta, have to go back to the very Science Fiction movie I was watching, good night.

Found it. Titled Claxon 001

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Y81ILFdPGWI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DY81ILFdPGWI

I heard a lot of noise.

Goodnight

 

[Pi brat]

The JNC pullout was a stupid move. We've never recovered. Trust was irrevocably breached. I believe that is why no one from the west was interested in any overtures from the east once it insisted on using 'muscle' to achieve it's objectives. I suppose a white flag is an option, but most people just don't work that way.

I have to tell you LS, this post surprises me.

I agree that it was a mistake to pull out of JNC talks, I told our MEC that, but THAT irrevocably breached your trust?

Being pragmatic is not throwing up a white flag. Working out a solution to a known problem is not throwing up a white flag. Just like making a go around is not failing as a pilot. There are many facts that go along with this case. One major one is that, right or wrong, the east pilots were massively pissed at the Nicolau award. Since there was no joint contract, the Nicolau award then raised the price of getting a joint contract, again massively. The west was told by ALPA and Scott Kirby of the facts. You did not go down the road blind. You knew full well the pitfalls of fighting the way you did with the TA we had. Had we put our heads together and come up with a solution, we could saved us all a lot of time and grief.

I was told by one of the principles of AOL that you guys knew full well the implications of the construction of the TA. You didn't worry about the psuedo veto power in it, because you thought you might have to use it. But when we used it, all trust was lost?

I've tried to keep an open mind about west pilots because of my friends out there. I know most of you are not like the dozen or so loud mouthed aholes on here. I've been called about every name in the book here, but it hasn't caused an irrevocable breach of trust.... yet, but I have to say I am damn near it this week.

 

[Pi brat]

What document allows the company to use separate lists?

What document specifically states the manner furloughs will be allocated and recalled?

So, your argument is that the Nic is indeed status quo at LCC, you agree with Siegel, very good, and you even used examples of how the TA is controlling and the Nic is in effect.

I can see you guys pretty much answered all the questions while I was out flying today and I think you're right Nic, you guys have it in the bag. I just want to make sure I follow a couple of things.

-Above you are talking about the TA, as Judge Silver said it was still alive, right? And the Nic lives in the TA? So what happens when the TA dies?
-You say the TA is ripe. If for some reason the merger falls through, the document that you call a JCBA is gone. Does the case unripen?
-Is there any possibility, not probability, but possibility that a joint SL with the APA could be negotiated before the JCBA is finalized?

Just answers to those questions please. No need to comment, I've already conceded that you have USAPA whipped.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I have to tell you LS, this post surprises me.

I agree that it was a mistake to pull out of JNC talks, I told our MEC that, but THAT irrevocably breached your trust?

Being pragmatic is not throwing up a white flag. Working out a solution to a known problem is not throwing up a white flag. Just like making a go around is not failing as a pilot. There are many facts that go along with this case. One major one is that, right or wrong, the east pilots were massively pissed at the Nicolau award. Since there was no joint contract, the Nicolau award then raised the price of getting a joint contract, again massively. The west was told by ALPA and Scott Kirby of the facts. You did not go down the road blind. You knew full well the pitfalls of fighting the way you did with the TA we had. Had we put our heads together and come up with a solution, we could saved us all a lot of time and grief.

I was told by one of the principles of AOL that you guys knew full well the implications of the construction of the TA. You didn't worry about the psuedo veto power in it, because you thought you might have to use it. But when we used it, all trust was lost?

I've tried to keep an open mind about west pilots because of my friends out there. I know most of you are not like the dozen or so loud mouthed aholes on here. I've been called about every name in the book here, but it hasn't caused an irrevocable breach of trust.... yet, but I have to say I am damn near it this week.

In a nutshell, the lowest common denominator ruins it for everyone. If more people of a certain pursuasion would have had more influence, things could have been different. I'm talking about the aggregate.

It is true we all knew how this is set up, but at least the way I envisioned it, all that bought me was a certain amount of time voting no on an agreement, which would get us nowhere until we all figured it out. But we would have been in JNC. I never envisioned an outright display of muscle by any party.

Not everyone that voted for usapa is a radical by any stretch, but it is the radicals who have always had the reins firmly in hand. I believe you are as much a victem as anyone out west. This usapa experiment has served no one, and it all started with the JNC pullout in my opinion.

I can be pragmatic on equal footing. If usapa wants to right some wrongs(RICO for instance) and make some serious changes, pragmatism might have a chance. But the chances of that seem nil.