Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

Hmm...Not ALL arbitration then?

Yeah, I noticed that little phrase, too.

So then...final and binding sometimes may not be final and binding is what that law encyclopedia says. Interesting.

 

[A320 Driver]

A ratified MOU changing pay rates, work rules and benefits for ALL pilots makes the case ripe.

Nope, it doesn't.

There is no doubt that the harm the west fears would happen.

Not "did" happen. That is like "future" harm and that has already been shot down in court. You need an integrated SLI to make your claim. But go ahead...it's your money.

Why would a judge not stop an arbitration before it gets started if everyone is going to waste there time getting to a solution that is illegal?

Maybe to see if there really is harm to the West class. Then he would have to take a look at where we were and where we are. Also, they would have to look at the particulars of the NIC and compare them to where we end up. That wouldn't be pretty and you know it. That is what Harper and you guys are trying to avoid...having the NIC under a microscope in court. But we will see...

 

[cleardirect]

Do you think the APA wants to sacrifice their own, as well as east, attrition to much younger pilots from the west to become permanent roadblocks to their own progress?

Do you think the older about to retire APA pilots are willing to sacrifice themselves for east pilots using DOH?

Afteral, there are more of them than there are of you.

 

[snapthis]

Thanks. You're very adept at missing them entirely.

snapthis: "You might want to turn the lights on first. You might not like what you see."...? Now that does sound scary-spooky! I'll even start looking for boogeymen under the bed now! Umm...Is there any chance of getting a waay-cool westie T-shirt or even better; a "medal" from your little "army" of "spartans" for doing that?......Or do I need to first wait for full AWA "Knighthood" and have "fought with valor in many battles", exclusively in Fantasyland of course, or even honored initiation into the dreaded "Dire Wolves" squadron first? I'd sure hate to ever even try to be as "tough" and "heroic" in "war" as your mighty bunch....but I will, here below "turn the lights on" as to the awesome threat level we on the east face! I'm sure all will be much impressed and properly terrified.

I'm happy to see you are helping with ITT News ratings. Eric's a talented Spartan spokesman.

 

[traderjake]

Do you think the APA wants to sacrifice their own, as well as east, attrition to much younger pilots from the west to become permanent roadblocks to their own progress?

Do you think APA wants to put N/B East pilots senior to their W/B Captains?

 

[cleardirect]

Because you, or they, don't know the result. That's what the Ninth said. They said the list that USAPA negotiates may not disadvantage the west pilots. No one can know that until it's done. Theoretically, the USAPA may just staple the east pilots below the west and call it a day. Would that disadvantage the west pilots?

Until it's DONE, it's NOT RIPE.

The ninth was talking about negotiating within a CBA. We do know the result of what our contract will be.

I agree if usapa can come up with a list that does not do the harm the west fears as the ninth stated. usapa can use that list. Does stapling all the east pilots fit within usapa duty of fair representation to ALL US Airways pilots?

I am glad to see that you are now at least acknowledging that whatever usapa comes up with that is not the Niclau has to at least be equal to the Nicolau. Now understanding the fact that east pilots think anything other than DOH disadvantages them anything other than the Nicolau will have to be defended.

What is easier and safer? Using an arbitrated list or inventing your own list that both sides will shot at?

 

[cleardirect]

Yeah, I noticed that little phrase, too.

So then...final and binding sometimes may not be final and binding is what that law encyclopedia says. Interesting.

Yes but our arbitration was stated to be final and binding. If it is agreed PRIOR to arbitration that it will not be. So be it.

 

[flyboeing737]

Do you think the APA wants to sacrifice their own, as well as east, attrition to much younger pilots from the west to become permanent roadblocks to their own progress?

Much younger. LOL you are full of ####. Typical USAPA spin. The average age of the pilot groups are within a few years.

 

[flyboeing737]

Ok then...umm....How? Specifically how does the MOU serve as an instrument "that cements the NIC"...?

You do realize who negotiated the MOU?

 

[nic4us]

Here is a question for anybody, East or West. From which list(s) are furloughs done? Are they done using the Nic? Or are they done from seperate East and West lists? If they are done from seperate East and West lists, how exactly is the Nic in effect at USAirways, if, in fact, furloughs are being done from seperate lists?

What document allows the company to use separate lists?

What document specifically states the manner furloughs will be allocated and recalled?

So, your argument is that the Nic is indeed status quo at LCC, you agree with Siegel, very good, and you even used examples of how the TA is controlling and the Nic is in effect.

 

[pjirish317]

Nic4,

Spin any way you like. I only asked a question. But you are the one saying that bidding/furloughs are done off the Nic and not seperate lists, correct? And BTW, I do not agree with Siegel, and I do not believe that the Nic is in effect at LCC. I believe that there are TWO (2) seperate lists which both groups bid/get furloughed from, not the NIC. And that IMO, is the status quo.

 

[nic4us]

You need an integrated SLI to make your claim. But go ahead...it's your money.

Oh brother, educating you folks is getting tiresome.

Who said anything about the DFR being exclusively based on seniority?

We got 5 years of usapa intentionally stalling negotiations, failing to file West grievances, compelling the company violate the TA, and now a triggering event that brings the east and West to a common pay rate.

Nope, don't need an integrated SLI, already have that in the Nic, just need a POR in this merger and uscaba is done!

 

[nic4us]

Nic4,

Spin any way you like. I only asked a question. But you are the one saying that bidding/furloughs are done off the Nic and not seperate lists, correct? And BTW, I do not agree with Siegel, and I do not believe that the Nic is in effect at LCC. I believe that there are TWO (2) seperate lists which both groups bid/get furloughed from, not the NIC. And that IMO, is the status quo.

No I do not think, and did not say furloughs and recalls are done off the Nic.

I said they are done according to the same TA that requires the Nic. Therefore the Nic is status quo when you talk about any combining of LCC pilots whether in house or in a merger.

On your disagreement with Siegel, oh well you are not alone, and I am sure some pretty average lawyers might agree with you....but the judges and the RLA lawyers pretty much all agree with Siegel.

 

[A320 Driver]

No I do not think, and did not say furloughs and recalls are done off the Nic.

HUH? If there are East and West equipment bids, East and West lists for furlough, and East and West lists for recall, then how, by ANY stretch of the imagination can you say the NIC is the status quo??? The NIC is a piece of paper that was never used for anything. Two courts said it would be so divisive that a JCBA might not be possible. I guess when you dream, dream big.

 

[nic4us]

HUH? If there are East and West equipment bids, East and West lists for furlough, and East and West lists for recall, then how, by ANY stretch of the imagination can you say the NIC is the status quo??? The NIC is a piece of paper that was never used for anything. Two courts said it would be so divisive that a JCBA might not be possible. I guess when you dream, dream big.

I did not make it up.

AOL's lawyers did not make it up.

We both agree however with the company's lawyer, Siegel, who told Judge Silver this exact thing.

The TA is the controlling contract, is the status quo, the section regarding seniority integration, section 4 I believe is complete and rendered the Nic. Therefore the Nic is status quo at LCC.

The company, as you point out, has been operating under the terms of the TA for 8 years.

The Nic is not just a piece of paper. The Nic is the conclusion of section 4 of the TA. Just as one operating certificate is the conclusion of sect 2 of the TA. Just as furloughs and recalls are the result of section 5 etc..etc..


Three things the east really need to get a grasp on.....1. It's called binding arbitration for a reason. 2. The Nic is still the only accepted system seniority list at LCC...3. When a judge tells you you are on dangerous ground....that is a hint you ought to take.