Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[im back..!!]

Th APA will not go to the Arbitration process... They won the "Failing Carrier" case in front of the SCOTUS. There own arguments and awards (stapled) would be used against them, and they know it. They will come to a mutchully(sp) agreed upon SLI. They will not be walked on, but they will not allow it to get to the ARB stage...

 

[Pi brat]

Yo Pi...
I have bad news for you. The Oxford English Dictionary now recognizes the phrase "could care less" as an American "colloquialism". In a similar vein, your buddy, Eastus, utilizes the word "irregardless", which has also received similar recognition. And while they might sound somewhat unintelligent, maybe it's just a readin', racin', 'rithmetic thang"... no?

All the best... Fifi.

A girls opinion. ;-) I'll go with common sense.

"it is one of the more common language peeves because of its illogical nature."



http://grammar.quick...-care-less.aspx

 

[dca319]

As Yogi Berra said: "It's deja vu all over again!"

For USAPA or AoL?

 

[Pi brat]

It's the victim mindset. Rather than taking responsibility, it's easier to point fingers. It's ALPA, Parker, West Pilots and of course, Nicolau. Their expectations were just that, expectations. Sorry life did not turn out as expected. Not our fault. Something about death and taxes comes to mind when talking about expectations being a certainty.

You just nailed yourself and the west AF/Os.

 

[Pi brat]

If we go to arbitration with this garbage we're going to get our clocks cleaned just like the last time.

This time I agree with you 100%. The west AF/Os have tunnel vision and are taking the rest of their group with them. Look at Feguson's standing on the Nic vs. the west list. Then go look, oh say the bottom block holder captain.

 

[dca319]

Th APA will not go to the Arbitration process... They won the "Failing Carrier" case in front of the SCOTUS. There own arguments and awards (stapled) would be used against them, and they know it. They will come to a mutchully(sp) agreed upon SLI. They will not be walked on, but they will not allow it to get to the ARB stage...

"Mutchully"?!?? That was horrid.
Unless they agree to DoH with fences, a "mutchully" agreed to SLI is highly unlikely. The chances of this going to the panel is 99.9999%.

 

[nic4us]

Th APA will not go to the Arbitration process... They won the "Failing Carrier" case in front of the SCOTUS. There own arguments and awards (stapled) would be used against them, and they know it. They will come to a mutchully(sp) agreed upon SLI. They will not be walked on, but they will not allow it to get to the ARB stage...

As long as they use the Nic in the mutually agreed process,,,then no problem.

Hey, anybody notice the last line in Hummers update?

An open admission from the president of the scab union that it's constitutionally mandate is to "reject the Nicolau award in it's entirety".

What an incredibly dumb thing to say! Admit that the entire purpose of uscaba is to violate the rights of those it has a DFR to represent.

Thanks Gary! We will file that right next to the letter to Bradford warning him not to let anyone know the purpose of the scab union.

 

[cleardirect]

Th APA will not go to the Arbitration process... They won the "Failing Carrier" case in front of the SCOTUS. There own arguments and awards (stapled) would be used against them, and they know it. They will come to a mutchully(sp) agreed upon SLI. They will not be walked on, but they will not allow it to get to the ARB stage...

The only way the APA does not go to arbitration is if they roll over and give usapa everything they want. We have seen how usapa negotiates for the last 5 years. Demand get something agree, demand more. Never satisfied.

The APA is not going to agree to DOH so the negotiations will be over very quickly.

From the president's update.

Our union, our lawyers and our merger counsel have been advised that USAPA will begin the seniority integration process with APA by pursuing what Article I, Section 8 D of our Constitution requires, “To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.”

Maybe the APA will agree to be fenced into their bases by DOH and allow east pilots 50% of the growth in the american bases like they want with PHX.

This integration will end with arbitration.

 

[nic4us]

Also, read Paul Jone's letter to the NMB.

Nice!!!

 

[Pi brat]

It is really not that hard to understand. The west pilots support the merger. It moves us forward because left to their own devices usapa was never going to move.

So yes the merger is going to happen and the west will do nothing to stop it. With that said we will do everything we can to make sure that the Nicolau list is used in the integration.

What part of that don't you understand?

The merger is separate from the seniority integration. Not having a new contract or single seniority list does not stop the merger. It puts pressure on the company, APA and usapa to do the right thing.

If usapa was interesting in a quick resolution why did it take almost two months after the company filed to ask for it?

I asked before. If the ninth grants the expedited appeal what is it you think usapa will get from the ninth? What is the best outcome you can think of? do you even know what the question in front of the ninth is?

No smart a, I have no idea. You asked for anyone from the planet usapia. I wouldn't dignify that.

You have really been proven an idiot the last few days. You thought you had the smoking gun with the Jones letter. Yesterdays actions by USAPA counter that pretty well.

If AOLs intentions are clear then why didn't they clearly state them. Aren't attorney's supposed to be good with words. Why put in just TRO without defining it and "why say do whatever is necessary", instead of limiting to the SLI?

How about this from USAPA's filing:

"Counsel for US Airways states that US Airways will neither support nor
oppose a motion to expedite. Counsel for the West Pilot Class states that the West
Pilot Class intends to oppose any motion to expedite."

Who is delaying here clear? Why not get an answer. What is the answer you fear so much that you would rather not have it answered before the process starts.

I'll have to say that I was surprised by USAPA's filing. I thought they would take the "win" in PHX instead of risking it at the 9th. I guess they feel good about it.

 

[nic4us]

If AOLs intentions are clear then why didn't they clearly state them. Aren't attorney's supposed to be good with words. Why put in just TRO without defining it and "why say do whatever is necessary", instead of limiting to the SLI?

How about this from USAPA's filing:

"Counsel for US Airways states that US Airways will neither support nor
oppose a motion to expedite. Counsel for the West Pilot Class states that the West
Pilot Class intends to oppose any motion to expedite."

Who is delaying here clear? Why not get an answer. What is the answer you fear so much that you would rather not have it answered before the process starts.

I'll have to say that I was surprised by USAPA's filing. I thought they would take the "win" in PHX instead of risking it at the 9th. I guess they feel good about it.

I think the intention of AOL is stated very clearly in Marty's letters.

Use the Nic or get sued. Pretty straight forward really. Same message that has been put out there for the last 5 years.

So, usapa gets called on the carpet over it's intentional delay of contract negotiations, and forcing of separate ops to disadvantage the West pilot group, so now it has to pretend to want resolution with a merger pending?

Give me a break!

 

[Graceson]

I guess that's all relative. It would seem the only ones discrediting Nicolau are the aggrieved ones which is to be expected.

Agreed. And when any party braves to remove a commander in chief from office for incompetancy, then there will be a hearing and subsequent judgement which will either vindicate, condem or dismiss without prejudice.

 

[fifidriver]

The best perspective to guage capacity for economic viability and prosperity is hindsight. This perspecitive validates contentious debate of whether Commander Nic was fit for duty at that time.

And like any commander, from commander in chief to commander of an aircraft, there's impeachment for reckless negligence.

And if one side should be discredited for challenging errant valuations of potential prosperity, then the other side should be equally discredited for valuations employment viability. Either we all be given the opportunity to peer into the future or we equally take discredit for attempting the impossible. Though... the.perspective of hindsight now renders clarity upon commander Nic's competency to steer the ship.

Hello Graceson...

While your viewpoint taken at face value may appear to have some merit. It is, however, specious at best. The problem with your viewpoint from my perspective is your definition of terms. What you so glibly proclaim to be "validation" of "economic viability and prosperity" comes with some caveats. That "validation" for the last eight years has been reaped directly off of your collective backs. It is relatively easy to claim "economic viability and prosperity" when you have crews flying wide bodies across the water at rates that other airlines are paying narrow body domestic crews, and domestic rates in the range of successful commuters. Let alone the higher cost to the company of my additional vacation, better medical, 401k contribution and world famous crew meals. (I was actually told that the company pays about $25 per meal for that crap.) On the other hand, apparently your training costs are significantly higher than ours. Given the choice, what financially astute CEO would not move all growth, aircraft and crews to the lower cost option. This in my opinion does not prove your case and these factors when considered, highlight the somewhat dubious nature of your claim of "validation" and "economic viability".
Because of issues like this, I believe that the "snapshot" method of integration is both appropriate and will continue to be used. The reality as I see it is that as of 2005, we are all in this together, for better or for worse. And although our operations may have been artificially kept separate, in the end I expect that "Commander Nic" will probably be the one given "validation".
Enjoy your weekend.

 

[Pi brat]

I think the intention of AOL is stated very clearly in Marty's letters.

Use the Nic or get sued. Pretty straight forward really. Same message that has been put out there for the last 5 years.

So, usapa gets called on the carpet over it's intentional delay of contract negotiations, and forcing of separate ops to disadvantage the West pilot group, so now it has to pretend to want resolution with a merger pending?

Give me a break!

And that B.S. letter from the company to the NMB?! Give me a break.

I do agree with you about AOL's intentions. As they said, they will DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to get their way. Sound like jihadists.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If we go to arbitration with this garbage we're going to get our clocks cleaned just like the last time.

Maybe. Who knows?

But unlike last time, there will be no recourse.