Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[flyboeing737]

Keep drinking the kool aid. NIC is coming soon.

 

[cleardirect]

You guys voted overwhelmingly to accept the MOU, which represents moving on. Then your "Marty" sends threatening letters to all involved, not a good move.

After accepting the idea of moving on, the threatening letters represent the idea of causing trouble, instead of moving on.

Bottom line is that you guys and your dream of the NIC is toast, especially after your vote on the MOU.

Check mate!
breeze

If as you think, the MOU kills the Nicolau why did usapa not come out and proudly announce that to the masses? The east holds the majority and could have voted for anything that gets you closer to DOH.

Why did the NAC, the officers and the merger committee all say that the MOU was seniority neutral if in fact if was not? IF in fact the MOU kills the Nicolau and usapa was intentionally involved in fraud that makes a DFR case very easy for the west.

On the other hand if usapa's theory that majority rules and the union can do whatever it wants. That the courts have truly allowed usapa to negotiate a different seniority list. Why not for the first time be honest with the pilots? All west pilots could have voted no and the MOU would have passed and we would all know that DOH will be the list.

But usapa did not do that.

Marty read the MOU before it passed. Do you think that if he thought the MOU killed the Nicolau he may have picked up the phone and told someone?

The east logic fails on so many levels.

 

[Pi brat]

Keep drinking the kool aid. NIC is coming soon.

There you have it. You know, they can put it out on that internet if it's not true.

I heard this guy got his internet taken away.

[background=#fff]



10/14/2011

Res Jud
Posted Today, 12:54 AM


The Dec. ruling should be out by April. LOA93 Loss will have been handed down to USAPA and that reality will have had a few months to percolate among the silent majority. I, and others a hell of a lot smarter than I, believe that Judge Silver is going to effectively end this debate by telling the company that they are absolutely liable if they touch the Nic. The law is clear. It is illegal for the company to enjoy the benefits of a new contract that work as a DFR against a group of employees. All AOL has to do is persuade the Judge enough that a DOH contract is indeed a dfr and will make the contract Illegal. Guess where all the evidence for proving that fact will be imported from? Wait for it.......

ADDINGTON!!!

The case that was dead, buried, meaningless, and forgotten will be back front and center to haunt USAPA. Being a Jury already found against USAPA for DFR in regards to a DOH list....how hard is it going to be to convince Silver that a DOH contract is a DFR?

It's a no brainer. USAPA is doomed and they damn well know it. Thank God they finally are getting competent legal advise.

This will be over by April.
Res Judicata...a thing already decided.[/background]

 

[EastUS1]

IF in fact the MOU kills the Nicolau ......... that makes a DFR case very easy for the west.

Even though you voted for it? Well...unless your group's now asserting some universal impediment in reading ability and overall comprehension, which, as I understand it, can result from brain damage suffered by absorbing an excess of toxic ink from cheaply printed, "Integrity Matters" T-shirts.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

If as you think, the MOU kills the Nicolau why did usapa not come out and proudly announce that to the masses? The east holds the majority and could have voted for anything that gets you closer to DOH.

Why did the NAC, the officers and the merger committee all say that the MOU was seniority neutral if in fact if was not? IF in fact the MOU kills the Nicolau and usapa was intentionally involved in fraud. that makes a DFR case very east for the west. On the other hand if usapa's theory that majority rules and the union can do whatever it wants. That the courts have truly allowed usapa to negotiate a different seniority list.

Why not for the first time be honest with the pilots? all west could have voted no and the MOU would have passed and we would all know that DOH will be the list.

But usapa did not do that.

Marty read the MOU before it passed. Do you think that if he thought the MOU killed the Nicolau he may have picked up the phone and told someone?

The east logic fails on so many levels.

The MOU does NOT kill the NIC. It simply ignores it. Marty indeed screwed this one up. We will ALL vote for a second time (thanks for the MOU vote, much appreciated) and approve a seniority list and contract for over 10.000 pilots. Vote with your heart, you can always sue for a DFR later.

Greeter

 

[Pi brat]

So which is it clear? Was your lawyer lying or telling the truth when he wrote ""That said, the West pilots must do whatever is needed to defend the Nicolau Award." Can't have it both ways.

And how does USAPAs action of asking for a quick appeal line up with the claims of the company that you have been touting all day?

What a soap opera.

 

[mrbreeze]

If as you think, the MOU kills the Nicolau why did usapa not come out and proudly announce that to the masses? The east holds the majority and could have voted for anything that gets you closer to DOH.

Why did the NAC, the officers and the merger committee all say that the MOU was seniority neutral if in fact if was not? IF in fact the MOU kills the Nicolau and usapa was intentionally involved in fraud that makes a DFR case very easy for the west.

On the other hand if usapa's theory that majority rules and the union can do whatever it wants. That the courts have truly allowed usapa to negotiate a different seniority list. Why not for the first time be honest with the pilots? All west pilots could have voted no and the MOU would have passed and we would all know that DOH will be the list.

But usapa did not do that.

Marty read the MOU before it passed. Do you think that if he thought the MOU killed the Nicolau he may have picked up the phone and told someone?

The east logic fails on so many levels.

Honestly, Clear, I think the MOU has very little to do with SLI.

If that was understood by all parties, why is Marty sending threatening letters to the other parties? These letters just serve to throw fuel on the fire since different parties will feel inclined to respond.

Sounds like desperation to me.

I will quit being an "ass" now......but my prediction is that Marty will not have any luck in bypassing negotiations between USAPA and APA. Those negotiations may produce a DOH SLI with 7 yr fences. Failing that, it will go to MB arbitration, which is a complete roll of the dice.

Persistent threats from the West will get you nowhere....so knock off the constant barrage of how the NIC is it....you and Nic4us just throw fuel on the fire on these boards, when in fact, none of us really know.
breeze

 

[Pi brat]

If as you think, the MOU kills the Nicolau why did usapa not come out and proudly announce that to the masses? The east holds the majority and could have voted for anything that gets you closer to DOH.

Why did the NAC, the officers and the merger committee all say that the MOU was seniority neutral if in fact if was not? IF in fact the MOU kills the Nicolau and usapa was intentionally involved in fraud that makes a DFR case very easy for the west.

On the other hand if usapa's theory that majority rules and the union can do whatever it wants. That the courts have truly allowed usapa to negotiate a different seniority list. Why not for the first time be honest with the pilots? All west pilots could have voted no and the MOU would have passed and we would all know that DOH will be the list.

But usapa did not do that.

Marty read the MOU before it passed. Do you think that if he thought the MOU killed the Nicolau he may have picked up the phone and told someone?

The east logic fails on so many levels.

Why did Marty have you guys vote for it if he thinks there may be illegal language in it?

 

[Pi brat]

I guess clear and DCA319 are too busy on the AWAPPA board.

 

[mrbreeze]

doh nogo,

I am really off to bed tonight......will not check back in after brushing my teeth, promise. So you can go ahead and spew all the nasty adolescent vulgarities about me that you want. I won't peek, promise.

Goodnight, my fellow American pilots!
breeze

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Why did Marty have you guys vote for it if he thinks there may be illegal language in it?

Absolute dumbest move by any legal entity involved in this process in 7 years. Insane. LEO should sue Harper for his complete lack of judgment. He just screwed them all.

Greeter

 

[Graceson]

President's Message


Yesterday USAPA’s lawyers asked the Ninth Circuit to expedite the appeal filed by US Airways in order to have it decided prior to a merger with APA. We want there to be no uncertainty about whether USAPA can pursue a different seniority proposal pursuant to a merger. USAPA legal counsel is confident that a prompt resolution of this case will result in the Circuit Court again upholding the USAPA position. The West Pilots have indicated that they will oppose a prompt resolution of the US Airways appeal. USAPA’s motion to expedite and supporting papers are posted...

First there was the "reckless disregard for ripeness" trial.

Then there was the appeal to validate "reckless disregard for ripeness."

Then there was a wayward appeal to the appeal to SCOTUS to direct a lower court to ignore reckless disregard fo ripeness.

Then there was an immaginative effort in court at prememptive ripe, which the court said, "Yes, premptive ripe still means not ripe. So does nearly ripe, almost ripe, barely ripe, close to ripe, getting there ripe, kind of ripe..."

Then there was the, "Would you please reconsider ripe gripe."

Then there's the appeal to higher court about the "ripe gripe reconsideration" of a gripe about an "almost barely but not quite ripe" legal filing, in which the lower court defered to the higher court ruling of not ripe, but nonetheless the plaintiff would prefer the higher court to overturn a lower court refusal to overturn the higher court's ruling that overturned a lower courts finding of "reckless disregard of ripeness."

Now I'm hearing that there might be a legal objection to an expedited hearing on "almost barely but not quite ripe gripe" so as to imaginatively, once again rephrase an "it really, really, really is getting so close to ripe I'm stopping this merger and suing everyone" legal appeal.

 

[cleardirect]

So which is it clear? Was your lawyer lying or telling the truth when he wrote ""That said, the West pilots must do whatever is needed to defend the Nicolau Award." Can't have it both ways.

And how does USAPAs action of asking for a quick appeal line up with the claims of the company that you have been touting all day?

What a soap opera.

It is really not that hard to understand. The west pilots support the merger. It moves us forward because left to their own devices usapa was never going to move.

So yes the merger is going to happen and the west will do nothing to stop it. With that said we will do everything we can to make sure that the Nicolau list is used in the integration.

What part of that don't you understand?

The merger is separate from the seniority integration. Not having a new contract or single seniority list does not stop the merger. It puts pressure on the company, APA and usapa to do the right thing.

If usapa was interesting in a quick resolution why did it take almost two months after the company filed to ask for it?

I asked before. If the ninth grants the expedited appeal what is it you think usapa will get from the ninth? What is the best outcome you can think of? do you even know what the question in front of the ninth is?

 

[Res Judicata]

I have to wonder: why, after the merger with America west, is USCABA obsessed with the idea of unmerged career expectations? Why doesn't any Easthole see the obvious when this is applied to the AMW merger? Your unmerged career expectations was the unemployment line. That's a fact. Don't think this policy is going to come back to haunt? Do you REALLY think a jury is to stupid to connect those most obvious dots?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Clear asked: "The merger is separate from the seniority integration. Not having a new contract or single seniority list does not stop the merger. It puts pressure on the company, APA and usapa to do the right thing.



PRESSURE DOES NOT EQUAL A RESULT.



If usapa was interesting in a quick resolution why did it take almost two months after the company filed to ask for it?



TIMING.



I asked before. If the ninth grants the expedited appeal what is it you think usapa will get from the ninth? What is the best outcome you can think of? do you even know what the question in front of the ninth is? "



SAME QUESTION AND RESULT AS 4 YEARS AGO.



GREETER