Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[dca319]

The Company will not be negotiating in the M/B process. They agreed in the MOU (the one you ratified) that they would be neutral. So the they won't be telling either APA or USAPA to shove anything. If Marty is so sure he now has ripeness, why the saber rattling? Time to put up (file something) or shut up.

Greeter

I do believe Marty is giving them an opportunity to move forward with the Nicolau first and, failing that, he will file a TRO. They have until August per their clock so I believe you will see them "put up" something.

 

[mrbreeze]

The MOU calls for setting up a SLI protocol. That process includes going to arbitration if agreement cannot be made.

Marty is calling for the protocol to be established, and saying let's go in front of an arbitration panel. Confident that the arbitrator would indeed tell uscaba they have run out of excuses and we have to use the Nic.

The protocol is already established within the MOU..... negotiations between APA and USAPA, then MB arbitration.

It appears that Marty is trying to bypass the negotiation phase and go straight to MB.

He has NO authority to try to rewrite the MOU.
breeze

 

[dca319]

As I suspected. All talk and a looming supposed deadline. Greeter

Why do you call it "supposed"? They clearly defined their starting point and time frame in their filing.

 

[dca319]

The protocol is already established within the MOU..... negotiations between APA and USAPA, then MB arbitration.

It appears that Marty is trying to bypass the negotiation phase and go straight to MB.

He has NO authority to try to rewrite the MOU.
breeze

That's incorrect. The company can invite whomever they want to the table as it is their prerogative. I believe you'll see the west class represented by AoL during SLI.

 

[nic4us]

Ah - not quite. The MOU, Section 10-h refers to the listS in effect at USAirways.

That is exactly what I said...!

 

[cleardirect]

Per the MOU it says USairways "lists" in effect will be used for the SLI and AA "list". The NIC is not in effect nor has it ever been in effect.

The MOU also specifically voids all previous agreements and contracts including the Status Quo. It specifically says Status Quo is void as well.

Just wondering if you actually read the MOU before voting on it?

No sure way to tell how it will turn out, but the wording is very specific. You know how Doug loves to stick to exactly how things are worded. There are many "specifically worded" items in this MOU that are going to turn out not the way a large number of yes voters expect., and not just in the SLI part of things.

Why do I get the feeling that I have heard this argument before? That an east pilots is relying on a single word to make a case.

Oh that's right the LOA 93 grievance. Your entire argument came down to the word expires. How did that turn out? Might it be that the rest of the body of evidence and documents tell the complete story and the word 'lists" does not carry a lot of weight?

 

[snapthis]

That's incorrect. The company can invite whomever they want to the table as it is their prerogative. I believe you'll see the west class represented by AoL during SLI.

AOL will be at the table. USAPA (Spicoli) will learn how to share. We'll get our piece of the pie.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6J8__fWphE0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D6J8__fWphE0

9th Circuit to Spicoli

"Mr. Spicoli, you're on dangerous grounds"

 

[nic4us]

Per the MOU it says USairways "lists" in effect will be used for the SLI and AA "list". The NIC is not in effect nor has it ever been in effect.

The MOU also specifically voids all previous agreements and contracts including the Status Quo. It specifically says Status Quo is void as well.

Just wondering if you actually read the MOU before voting on it?

No sure way to tell how it will turn out, but the wording is very specific. You know how Doug loves to stick to exactly how things are worded. There are many "specifically
worded" items in this MOU that are going to turn out not the way a large number of yes voters expect., and not just in the SLI part of things.

Yes I read the MOU.

The MOU does not void all prior agreements, the MOU calls for the establishment of an MTA which will void all prior agreements, at the earliest practical time!

The Nic is in effect as the status quo system seniority list at LCC.

 

[cleardirect]

When Marty starts working for one of the two bargaining agents involved in this process, he can present his plan. A self inposed August deadline and threats of DFR's? Not any more leverage here than there has been in the last six years. Greeter

Can I let you in on a little secret? Marty does not need to be involved in the process. The walls are going to close in on usapa and they are going to be forced to present, defend and bargain using the Nicolau. Sweet poetic justice.

My hope is that Steve Bradford has to stand in front of the angry crowd and admit that he was wrong and lead you sheep down a very expensive dead end as they lock the doors to the usapa office having accomplished nothing but wasting years of our lives.

 

[Portly Dorman]

How do we know the list was unratifiable? That's the one thing the usapa founders would never allow. walked from the table and sent the keystone cops as negotiators.

I ask you to prove said statement, it was never given a chance and it was discussed in the Silver court and the best both the company and usapa could do was look at their shoes while they himed and hawed.

1. Under MB, the NIC may survive. Any principal or party relevant to the process may present opinion as a part of such.

2. It's no flaw for that the company accepted a list under the pre- MB process.

3. The flaw that nullifies the list, as the 9th pointed out, is an unratifiable list under the former process. MB extracts this from the JCBA process, and thus ratification has no veto power over a perceived undesirable SLI.

4. Under the old process, the ultimate remedy is in the court process. That is where it is now and where it will remain absent a merger. This in answer to your other points in the discussion above.

 

[nic4us]

When Marty starts working for one of the two bargaining agents involved in this process, he can present his plan. A self inposed August deadline and threats of DFR's? Not any more leverage here than there has been in the last six years. Greeter

Wrong again Greeter.

As the one of the two bargaining agents involved, usapa can offer their plan of how to address the concerns of the other bargaining agent and the company, who do not want to get tied to the scab union's breach of DFR.

Marty already offered his plan, and people are listening...usapa...not so much!

 

[cleardirect]

And what if the other parties REFUSE to "negotiate" to the terms demanded by USAPA. What if the company and the APA "negotiate" by telling USCABA to shove their DOH list you know where? What's the plan...another 5 year, billion lost dollar delay? Addinton stopped negotiations or USAPAS insistence to violate the law stopped negotiations? What is the LUP again? USAPA isn't suing anybody. The last place on earth USTUPID wants to go is in front of a judge.HA! Besides your fake scab union is effing doomed we all know it.

USAPA is a dead scab walking.

It might be time for usapa to release the letter to the membership, the one the company sent to the NMB.

Not surprisingly usapa hide vital information from the pilots concerning negotiations. It is difficult to make good decisions when you don't have good information.

You are correct, the company was not going to negotiate with usapa for seniority or a contract as long as usapa continued to put the company in a position of liability. If you east pilots want to question the validity of my facts. Ask yourself why has the NMB not even answered the question of negotiations. Also call your rep and demand a copy of the letter sent from Paul Jones the company lawyer to the NMB November 28, 2012 concerning section 6 negotiations.

Don't let them tell you that it is confidential either. usapa just filed it with the court so it is public record.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Can't even find the current east list because the wunderkin union won't even recognize DOH for the west pilots.

What is it, DOH or not???? Please play by your own rules.

Still trying to find the nic list on wings. If it is truly the accepted list as you say, then it should be there.

 

[nic4us]

The protocol is already established within the MOU..... negotiations between APA and USAPA, then MB arbitration.

It appears that Marty is trying to bypass the negotiation phase and go straight to MB.

He has NO authority to try to rewrite the MOU.
breeze

Get together with Kerosene and walmartgreeter and re-read the MOU.

Specifically paragraph 10 f.

 

[nic4us]

It might be time for usapa to release the letter to the membership, the one the company sent to the NMB.

Not surprisingly usapa hide vital information from the pilots concerning negotiations. It is difficult to make good decisions when you don't have good information.

You are correct, the company was not going to negotiate with usapa for seniority or a contract as long as usapa continued to put the company in a position of liability. If you east pilots want to question the validity of my facts. Ask yourself why has the NMB not even answered the question of negotiations. Also call your rep and demand a copy of the letter sent from Paul Jones the company lawyer to the NMB November 28, 2012 concerning
section 6 negotiations.

Don't let them tell you that it is confidential either. usapa just filed it with the court so it is
public record.

The east should be asking their reps a lot of questions....

Ustupid has these guy totally blind.