Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

And what if the other parties REFUSE to "negotiate" to the terms demanded by USAPA. What if the company and the APA "negotiate" by telling USCABA to shove their DOH list you know where? What's the plan...another 5 year, billion lost dollar delay? Addinton stopped negotiations or USAPAS insistence to violate the law stopped negotiations? What is the LUP again? USAPA isn't suing anybody. The last place on earth USTUPID wants to go is in front of a judge.HA! Besides your fake scab union is effing doomed we all know it.

USAPA is a dead scab walking.

Have they told them that, or have they just said "I'm sorry, we'll just have to wait and see how all the litiagation turns out"? Part of negotiation is saying no and coming up with other answers. The company has not done that. They don't have to. You guys showed them how to duck it with the courts.

Anger is ruling you, isn't it?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

And what if the other parties REFUSE to "negotiate" to the terms demanded by USAPA. What if the company and the APA "negotiate" by telling USCABA to shove their DOH list you know where? What's the plan...another 5 year, billion lost dollar delay? Addinton stopped negotiations or USAPAS insistence to violate the law stopped negotiations? What is the LUP again? USAPA isn't suing anybody. The last place on earth USTUPID wants to go is in front of a judge.HA! Besides your fake scab union is effing doomed we all know it.

USAPA is a dead scab walking.

The Company will not be negotiating in the M/B process. They agreed in the MOU (the one you ratified) that they would be neutral. So the they won't be telling either APA or USAPA to shove anything. If Marty is so sure he now has ripeness, why the saber rattling? Time to put up (file something) or shut up.

Greeter

 

[nic4us]

No, the part you seemed to have missed in the MOU, is where it refers to the TWO LISTS (both DOH, I might add) that make up the seniority snapshot at LCC today. Did I miss the ratified JCBA between East and West that WAS (note the past tense) required to have ever IMPLEMENTED (note the past tense) the NIC?

Just because AOL is throwing a "Hail Marty" doesn't mean squat. Outside of the pure desperation it represents! Just keep writing those checks boys and girls, everything is going to be just fine, for Marty..

seajay

The MOU does not refer to TWO LISTS..

It refers to "the listS currently in effect"...

According to Siegel and LCC legal, the Nic is per the RLA the status quo at LCC, and definitely considered in effect awaiting a joint contract.

 

[snapthis]

Just as I predicted and the PHX reps will make a scene of themselves at the joint APA ..BPR meeting. They are irrelevant at this point. events have overtaken the NIC. It's over boys

It's over for USAPA. Pack your bags and get the hell off our property! That organization is a disgrace to unionism.

 

[nic4us]

You are not helping your boys with talk of damages. Some of them might actually listen to you.

Are you for real?

How about the uscaba founders and the little lawyer's talk of reneging on a binding arbitration by changing unions. What's crock of BS that was and look how many east morons believed that and have caused us all financial harm.

Tell you what Pi, I will quit bringing up damages the day the scab union lives up to it's DFR obligation and puts the Nic on the table as the LCC system seniority list.

 

[Metroyet]

The Company will not be negotiating in the M/B process. They agreed in the MOU (the one you ratified) that they would be neutral. So the they won't be telling either APA or USAPA to shove anything. If Marty is so sure he now has ripeness, why the saber rattling? Time to put up (file something) or shut up.

Greeter

They have until august to file.

 

[nic4us]

The Company will not be negotiating in the M/B process. They agreed in the MOU (the one you ratified) that they would be neutral. So the they won't be telling either APA or USAPA to shove anything. If Marty is so sure he now has ripeness, why the saber rattling? Time to put up (file something) or shut up.

Greeter

Here is what everybody is missing from Marty's letters.

The MOU calls for setting up a SLI protocol. That process includes going to arbitration if agreement cannot be made.

Marty is calling for the protocol to be established, and saying let's go in front of an arbitration panel. Confident that the arbitrator would indeed tell uscaba they have run out of excuses and we have to use the Nic.

Pretty much everything would end right there. No lawsuits, no billable hours etc...

So it is actually the AOL lawyers who are willing to turn off the milking machine.

Time to put up or shut up for uscaba.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The MOU does not refer to TWO LISTS..

It refers to "the listS currently in effect"...

According to Siegel and LCC legal, the Nic is per the RLA the status quo at LCC, and definitely considered in effect awaiting a joint contract.

Ah - not quite. The MOU, Section 10-h refers to the listS in effect at USAirways.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

They have until august to file.

As I suspected. All talk and a looming supposed deadline. Greeter

 

[CallawayGolf]

Well, we agree for a change, partially.

As far as the incompetence goes, you have to remember a couple of things. I has been ruled by federal courts that the new union has the right to NEGOTIATE all sections of the contract, and that if they have a legitimate union purpose that they can indeed change it. How much time has been spent negotiating between the company and USAPA on section 22? To my knowledge, less than one. How can you claim incompetence on that when there has been no negotiations?

AOL and Judge Wake got in the way of the process. Yes, USAPA laid the ground work for it, but that unripe lawsuit has prevented any real contract negotiations at all.

I wonder if there is a way for USAPA to sue AOL and it's attorneys for interfering with their RLA rights.

Wake and a jury said it was a DFR to attempt to use any list other than the NIC.

The 2/3 of the Ninth said USAPA was at least as free to negotiate as ALPA under the PAIN of an unquestionably ripe DFR; but they also said that they lacked jurisdiction to evaluate the DFR claim based on merits and thus could not provide relief to the parties until a ripe claim was brought to them. From a purely legal perspective with no attempt to validate the potentiality of the future action, they also said that should USAPA attain a Non-Nic JCBA that the west pilots might not, at that time seek, a DFR claim against USAPA. Not at all likely but still a remote legal possibility in their eyes. One of three agreed with Wake concerning the DFR on merits.

Silver said, that without question USAPA inherited the same legal obligations to abide by previous agreements as ALPA. She also mentioned the fairness of the Nic and the severity of the risk the USAPA faces if they discard, during their freedom to negotiate phase, a legally binding arbitrated award. She also mentioned the need for USAPA and Management to conduct their business within the constraints of having a legitimate union purpose for any action that would bring harm to some or all of it's represented constituents.

Say what you will, but two federal judges have said that the merits of this case are that a clear breach of USAPA's DFR has or would occur for discarding the Nic and three federal judges have said they lack jurisdiction to pre-judge a case where harm has not yet occurred. And yet, lacking jurisdiction they offered clear and unmistakable warnings to USAPA if they actually succeed in getting the Company to accept a non-Nic list and then having it ratified by the pilots.

Bottom line is that USAPA is free to negotiate themselves into a DFR (if Management were willing to be complicit in such an attempt, which they clearly are not) or to take the legally DFR clear road of closing out Section 22 with the NIC. I say the continued pursuit of a DOH list, in light of the above, is a dereliction of their federally-granted and exclusive duties as a CBA. The NMB hasn't said that, but they have left USAPA parked indefinitely as continued negotiations are beyond pointless.

 

[Keroseneuser]

The MOU does not refer to TWO LISTS..

It refers to "the listS currently in effect"...

According to Siegel and LCC legal, the Nic is per the RLA the status quo at LCC, and definitely considered in effect awaiting a joint contract.

Per the MOU it says USairways "lists" in effect will be used for the SLI and AA "list". The NIC is not in effect nor has it ever been in effect.

The MOU also specifically voids all previous agreements and contracts including the Status Quo. It specifically says Status Quo is void as well.

Just wondering if you actually read the MOU before voting on it?

No sure way to tell how it will turn out, but the wording is very specific. You know how Doug loves to stick to exactly how things are worded. There are many "specifically worded" items in this MOU that are going to turn out not the way a large number of yes voters expect., and not just in the SLI part of things.

 

[nycbusdriver]

They have until august to file.

Well, then. Why not shut up about it till August?

Yawn.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Here is what everybody is missing from Marty's letters.

The MOU calls for setting up a SLI protocol. That process includes going to arbitration if agreement cannot be made.

Marty is calling for the protocol to be established, and saying let's go in front of an arbitration panel. Confident that the arbitrator would indeed tell uscaba they have run out of excuses and we have to use the Nic.

Pretty much everything would end right there. No lawsuits, no billable hours etc...

So it is actually the AOL lawyers who are willing to turn off the milking machine.

Time to put up or shut up for uscaba.

When Marty starts working for one of the two bargaining agents involved in this process, he can present his plan. A self inposed August deadline and threats of DFR's? Not any more leverage here than there has been in the last six years. Greeter

 

[traderjake]

Ah - not quite. The MOU, Section 10-h refers to the listS in effect at USAirways.

If this goes to arbitration I predict the first thing the arbitration panel does is combine the USAirways listS to mirror the Nicolau Award.

At least then you can claim victory over the evil NIC.

 

[Phoenix]

I wonder if there is a way for USAPA to sue AOL and it's attorneys for interfering with their RLA rights.

Indeed they could definitely do so, but since the West class is now bound and unable to do further hindrance to the rights of USAPA's negotiations, the damages or harm are no longer accruing.. and it is definitely ripe .